Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So you honestly think a “normal” park guest has visited multiple times a year for 20-30 years?

That number may actually rise…because they’ve moved away from “normal” out of town travelers and backed themselves into a corner with obsessive Disney adults…many of whom have to become Orlandites (easier to vlog that way)

 

[HauntedPirate]

So you honestly think a “normal” park guest has visited multiple times a year for 20-30 years?

And I do realise you are one of those (previous) AP holders.

Nah, I personally only ever did multiple trips in one year 3 or possibly 4 times over almost 40 years (but the more recent/exact trip dates become fuzzy over time. Phone camera helps that at least for the last 10 years, then it’s a decade of digital photos, then… park maps?). One of those was 2024, before that the last one may have been 2007. But my family of origin also visited during the off-season in the 80’s and 90’s, when someone young with the will and physical ability could do things like ride Space Mountain 18 times in a row in the morning. Or could stay on BTM and ride a few times in a row. Plus, once we had kids we did rider switching a bunch and I’d often get leftover FP’s to use.

An AP was usually timed to be used for 2 trips in a 12 month span. Now other members of my family? They eclipsed my trip count long ago.

You think 20 years ago that most people at WDW went multiple times per year?

See above. And the Bob’s were 10 years ago.

 

[Purduevian]

Repeat customers have been the backbone of Disney visitors for years…they’ve largely transitioned from “one and dones” many decades ago. That was the whole point of the Eisner Florida strategy…to not have to work so hard and get people who were easy sells there…guaranteed revenue.

per year? Not as many…annual or biannual…a lot.

What do you think the point of vacation club is?

But they’ve sheared off a lot that went regularly…or more frequently…with their pricing polices. Whales have shorter attention spans than average humans. And that’s why the worm has really turned

I think we (WDW Magic members) are more like the average guest than people expect.

We had APs for DL for over a decade, nearly everyone I know who goes to DL who lives in Vegas (or CA) has/had an AP and goes/went half a dozen times (or more) a year.

I’d be shocked if most (non FL resident, non DVC) super fans on WDW Magic make it to WDW more than once or twice every year or two.

Being a super fan doesn’t automatically mean we go to the parks more than the average guest, just means we like to talk about it more.

most reports I see estimate that seventy percent of WDW visitors are first timers

Over 15 years ago, I was told by Disney Univeristy that WDW had 20% repeat guests and 80% first-time guests and Disneyland was just the exact opposite.

Obviously nothing official...

Also regarding DVC... Wikipedia (I know, I know) says there are ~3,600 rooms on property. If we say each one has 4 people in it every night and every night they go to the parks... that's only 5,256,000 visits... out of the ~49,100,000 visitors to the parks

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney spreadsheet folks still see A LOT OF MONEY IN DVC $$$$$ or else they would stop building and building and building new DVC resorts!!!!

It does seem like a great money maker. Folks sign a contract and hand Disney a load of money and pay dues whether they go or not. Easy money.

 

[nickys]

most reports I see estimate that seventy percent of WDW visitors are first timers

Over 15 years ago, I was told by Disney Univeristy that WDW had 20% repeat guests and 80% first-time guests and Disneyland was just the exact opposite.

Obviously nothing official...

Also regarding DVC... Wikipedia (I know, I know) says there are ~3,600 rooms on property. If we say each one has 4 people in it every night and every night they go to the parks... that's only 5,256,000 visits... out of the ~49,100,000 visitors to the parks

That’s more what I was expecting.

@lentesta , do you have any figures on repeat visitors to hand? By which I mean don’t spend time researching it at this time of year; I’m sure you have other things to do

 

[Purduevian]

That’s more what I was expecting.

@lentesta , do you have any figures to hand? By which I mean don’t spend time researching it at this time of year; I’m sure you have other things to do

oh yeah, this was just a quick google search... I have no idea how accurate it is... but it seems better than any anecdotal evidence

 

[Disstevefan1]

I have always thought there were more new visitors (who don’t know any better) than repeat visitors who can see the decline and/or who were priced out.

 

[HauntedPirate]

That’s more what I was expecting.

@lentesta , do you have any figures to hand? By which I mean don’t spend time researching it at this time of year; I’m sure you have other things to do

We can find the number of 2-bedroom equivalent villas at WDW out on the DPEP site, but the number of actual DVC rooms seems rather elusive. If I need a mental break this afternoon, I may try to go find the numbers.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

most reports I see estimate that seventy percent of WDW visitors are first timers

Over 15 years ago, I was told by Disney Univeristy that WDW had 20% repeat guests and 80% first-time guests and Disneyland was just the exact opposite.

Obviously nothing official...

Also regarding DVC... Wikipedia (I know, I know) says there are ~3,600 rooms on property. If we say each one has 4 people in it every night and every night they go to the parks... that's only 5,256,000 visits... out of the ~49,100,000 visitors to the parks

That sounds similar to what I’d expect, DL has always been primarily a locals park compared to WDW being primarily a tourist destination.

Also confirms my belief that we (WDW Magic members) aren’t weird outliers, we likely fall in line with roughly 50% of their total US park guests.

 

[nickys]

We can find the number of 2-bedroom equivalent villas at WDW out on the DPEP site, but the number of actual DVC rooms seems rather elusive. If I need a mental break this afternoon, I may try to go find the numbers.

My comment was about the percentage of repeat vs new visitor numbers.

 

[HauntedPirate]

My comment was about the percentage of repeat vs new visitor numbers.

Oops. My mistake! That one I'm very curious about myself. Something doesn't seem to hold water with the numbers quoted, so I'll just wait to see if Len is able to corroborate or not at some point.

 

[lentesta]

That’s more what I was expecting.

@lentesta , do you have any figures on repeat visitors to hand? By which I mean don’t spend time researching it at this time of year; I’m sure you have other things to do

Ah, I don’t have general data. 80% new sounds like a lot.

Let’s say 80% of the MK’s guests are new each year. That’s close to 16 million people. There are 380MM people in the US. So in 24 years every American will have visited?

Okay, lots of guests come from outside the US. And the population is growing. But it seems like at numbers close to 80, everyone in the US would’ve been already.

 

[Purduevian]

Ah, I don’t have general data. 80% new sounds like a lot.

Let’s say 80% of the MK’s guests are new each year. That’s close to 16 million people. There are 380MM people in the US. So in 24 years every American will have visited?

Okay, lots of guests come from outside the US. And the population is growing. But it seems like at numbers close to 80, everyone in the US would’ve been already.

I wonder if our understanding of "First time Visitor" might be a little skewed.

Does Disney really define "First time visitor" as someone that has never been to WDW, as the name implies, or is it just the first time disney has a record of them visiting? If someone hasn't visited in 15 years... does disney know it the same person if they moved and never made a MDE account?

 

[HauntedPirate]

I wonder if our understanding of "First time Visitor" might be a little skewed.

Does Disney really define "First time visitor" as someone that has never been to WDW, as the name implies, or is it just the first time disney has a record of them visiting? If someone hasn't visited in 15 years... does disney know it the same person if they moved and never made a MDE account?

Given the technology piece involved, that’s actually a great question.

 

[DCBaker]

Here's an updated look at dates Lightning Lane Premier Pass is currently sold out:

Magic Kingdom
December: 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31
January: 1, 2

EPCOT
December: 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31

Hollywood Studios:
December: 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31
January: 1

Animal Kingdom
December: 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30

 

[Purduevian]

Ah, I don’t have general data. 80% new sounds like a lot.

Let’s say 80% of the MK’s guests are new each year. That’s close to 16 million people. There are 380MM people in the US. So in 24 years every American will have visited?

Okay, lots of guests come from outside the US. And the population is growing. But it seems like at numbers close to 80, everyone in the US would’ve been already.

I also wonder if it's counting unique people vs gate clicks...

MK might get 18 million gate clicks... but how many unique people visit each year... 1 annual pass holder might go to MK 20+ times a year. Also someone staying for a week might go to MK 3-4 times.

So maybe that 16 million clicks is actually something like 9 million unique visitors, 80% of them would only be 7.2 million first time visitors each year.

I have no idea, I'm just spitballing.

Saying the entire population of American has visited Disney at least once in their lives seems a little more reasonable.

 

[Splash4eva]

If I'm reading thrill data right...

Enough people bought LLPP for AK on December 29th to sell out at $199 a person.

If I was going and booked right now... I could buy LLSP for FOP for $19 (9:18am is the earliest return time)
LLMP for $29... and book Navi (10:42 earliest), Kali (10:33 earliest), and Safari (9:37am earliest)...

Crazy what people pay for flexibility.

Allowing you to walk on any ride at your leisure and not have to plan or worry about booking ahead or getting to park at a certain time for an extra $140 would not call that crazy at all…

 

[HauntedPirate]

Allowing you to walk on any ride at your leisure and not have to plan or worry about booking ahead or getting to park at a certain time for an extra $140 would not call that crazy at all…

Did that at AK the last time I was there. Got to the park maybe 30 minutes after open. Did everything we wanted to do. Left by 1pm. Cost? $0. #DidIDoThatCorrectly

 

[Splash4eva]

Did that at AK the last time I was there. Got to the park maybe 30 minutes after open. Did everything we wanted to do. Left by 1pm. Cost? $0. #DidIDoThatCorrectly

Thats great for you and noone is gonna judge you for that and critique your decision… everyone does their own thing on vacation disney or elsewhere. No right or wrong way….

Just curious what was included in what you “wanted to do”? Not calling you a liar but i find it hard to believe you walked right on FoP with no wait

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ah, I don’t have general data. 80% new sounds like a lot.

Let’s say 80% of the MK’s guests are new each year. That’s close to 16 million people. There are 380MM people in the US. So in 24 years every American will have visited?

Okay, lots of guests come from outside the US. And the population is growing. But it seems like at numbers close to 80, everyone in the US would’ve been already.

1/2 of the current US population probably can’t come close to affording a trip to Orlando…and rising.

The idea that 80!% of the visitors are new is insane…not even close

People are in denial about what is going on here…the Eisner strategy…which was focused on repeats…has been reversed and actively driven away. And they’re failing at it…to be honest…because the philosophy at the top of the mega corp has gotten away from
Them…intentional or otherwise…

There’s a ton or denial of how vulnerable these parks are…and Remember: there’s hasn’t been a collapse in an astounding 17 years…by far the most in the modern era…yet