MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

[JD80]

What I can't wrap my head around is the "grand scale only Disney can deliver" rhetoric. If Villains is really going to be this small, that statement is so misleading that it's pretty much a straight-up lie.

Piston Peak will be around 3.5 acres. The rest is villains.

 

[HauntedPirate]

What I can't wrap my head around is the "grand scale only Disney can deliver" rhetoric. If Villains is really going to be this small, that statement is so misleading that it's pretty much a straight-up lie.

Stop pulling back the curtain and saying the quiet parts out loud!

 

[Disstevefan1]

What I can't wrap my head around is the "grand scale only Disney can deliver" rhetoric. If Villains is really going to be this small, that statement is so misleading that it's pretty much a straight-up lie.

I have been thinking about this.

Expectations.

Until recently, I always had higher expectations of Disneyparks compared to other theme parks.

The hard truth is, Disneyparks are just a business and its actually not fair to have any higher expectations of Disneyparks compared to Universal, Legoland, Dollywood, SeaWorld and others.

My "expectations reset" is a good thing! There is no longer disappointment or anger. Just try to enjoy whatever comes to be.

 

[jah4955]

I have been thinking about this.

Expectations.

Until recently, I always have had higher expectations of Disneyparks compared to other theme parks.

The hard truth is, Disneyparks are just a business and its actually not fair to have any higher expectations of Disneyparks compared to Universal, Legoland, Dollywood, SeaWorld and others.

My "expectations reset" is a good thing! There is no longer disappointment or anger. Just try to enjoy whatever comes to be.

yes...true...but...it's such a shame it's come to this.

Disney used to take the greatest (well-deserved) pride in being the far-and-ahead leader of quality in almost every way conceivable.

Their (Walt's) business model was: no cut corner = the greatest possible return will happen anyway.

Tiny example: They "ran out of money" to do so many of their initial plans for World Showcase, but what they did complete for World Showcase was still unparalleled in quality for that time.

But...as been discussed here and elsewhere....quality is hard to translate into quantity ($).

They still have quality to be sure ... just not as much ... not as prevalent.... not as obvious.

At best, quality seems to have become little more than a checkbox.

At best, that means quality has long-since become an afterthought, not the primary thought.

 

[James Alucobond]

What I can't wrap my head around is the "grand scale only Disney can deliver" rhetoric. If Villains is really going to be this small, that statement is so misleading that it's pretty much a straight-up lie.

Why is this misleading? They could fail to deliver for many reasons, but “grand scale” does not inherently imply square footage. The floating islands of Pandora are on a grand scale and reside in space smaller than that reserved for Villains.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Piston Peak will be around 3.5 acres. The rest is villains.

I’m aware of that estimate. A 10.5 acre land does not sound like something at a “grand scale only Disney can deliver.” I’m not saying it can’t still be good, though.

Why is this misleading? They could fail to deliver for many reasons, but “grand scale” does not inherently imply square footage. The floating islands of Pandora are on a grand scale and reside in space smaller than that reserved for Villains.

In reference to a land, “grand scale only Disney can deliver” sounds to me like it’s implying a huge area, especially when in presented in conjunction with a piece of concept art that looks like a huge area.

That said, just as you noted about Pandora, the rockwork could plausibly be at “a grand scale only Disney can deliver,” especially with Zsolt Hormay at the helm. I don’t think there are other parks with such detailed/realistic rockwork at such scale as Pandora, Galaxy’s Edge, Cars Land, Mysterious Island, etc.

 

[jah4955]

I’m aware of that estimate. A 10.5 acre land does not sound like something at a “grand scale only Disney can deliver.” I’m not saying it can’t still be good, though.


In reference to a land, “grand scale only Disney can deliver” sounds to me like it’s implying a huge area, especially when in presented in conjunction with a piece of concept art that looks like a huge area.

That said, just as you noted about Pandora, the rockwork could plausibly be at “a grand scale only Disney can deliver,” especially with Zsolt Hormay at the helm. I don’t think there are other parks with such detailed/realistic rockwork at such scale as Pandora, Galaxy’s Edge, Cars Land, Mysterious Island, etc.

Disney Rocks!

 

[veritas55]

Everything past the train tracks was designated 'lay-down.' And when the District asked, "Are you sure it isn't for entertainment?" Disney said 'nope.'

This is a positive indicator that Villains will not spill over past the tracks.

And we have Josh saying Piston and Villains together is the same acreage as TSL, which is 11 acres. And within the tracks there is 11 acres to develop.

But things can change.

Understood. Seems so odd to me to not take advantage of that outside-RR cleared land for Villains land. but maybe the 8-ish acres devoted to it seem sufficient for Phase 1 and perhaps that cleared land is reserved for Phase 2 (although I can't imagine leaving that barren patch as the RR passes by?

 

[JD80]

I’m aware of that estimate. A 10.5 acre land does not sound like something at a “grand scale only Disney can deliver.” I’m not saying it can’t still be good, though.


In reference to a land, “grand scale only Disney can deliver” sounds to me like it’s implying a huge area, especially when in presented in conjunction with a piece of concept art that looks like a huge area.

That said, just as you noted about Pandora, the rockwork could plausibly be at “a grand scale only Disney can deliver,” especially with Zsolt Hormay at the helm. I don’t think there are other parks with such detailed/realistic rockwork at such scale as Pandora, Galaxy’s Edge, Cars Land, Mysterious Island, etc.

What's the minimum number of acreage something needs to be "grand scale"?

 

[MR.Dis]

What's the minimum number of acreage something needs to be "grand scale"?

Good question. The original Disneyland was/is approx 98 acres, so if Villains is 10.5 acres it represents over 10% of the total land used in Disneyland. It is and never was about the size of the land But the quality of the attraction.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Understood. Seems so odd to me to not take advantage of that outside-RR cleared land for Villains land. but maybe the 8-ish acres devoted to it seem sufficient for Phase 1 and perhaps that cleared land is reserved for Phase 2 (although I can't imagine leaving that barren patch as the RR passes by?

IMHO, it's likely to be used later. And maybe not thru Villains land, but by the previous plan of "Beyond Big Thunder."

Tho, a lack of being able to loop around makes my teeth itch.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

What's the minimum number of acreage something needs to be "grand scale"?

A “grand scale only Disney can deliver”? At least bigger than any of the lands in Epic Universe, perhaps?

But yes, as others have said, if we’re trying to be charitable, it’s plausible that “scale” refers to extent of detail/depth, scale of rockwork, and/or scale of the main rides. I don’t think that’s the intuitive understanding of the phrase for most people—again especially when it’s stated against the backdrop of concept art that appears to depict a big plot of land—but I guess it’s at least a defensible reading?

 

[jah4955]

But things can change.

Here's hoping that they surprise us all...that they blow all our expectations out of the water...that they reclaim their dominance and renounce the reactionary.

But I think I have a better chance of seeing the totems again

 

[Goofyernmost]

Soil cement and it’s just being left in place.

That's called clay. I could be wrong but when making man made lakes the use of clay, found on property was likely used. I maintain that they pile of dirt that we see in the pictures is much to gray to be sand or topsoil. I think it was removed and stockpiled to be used to line whatever remains of the river to be used in Piston Peak and Villains. Without some type of liner water would continuously percolate into the aquifer below and it ain't got far to go.

Silt is created with swift moving water that carries fine particles of sand and weathered stone down stream to a natural basen. The River's of America are basically stagnant water, probably filtered but lacking in natural silt. In Florida's heat a large amount of those waters will evaporate adding to the need to minimise any percolation from happening.

I suppose it is possible that they could leave it but in areas like the vicinity of the HM and Frontierland would not allow for the natural perking that might make the ground above unstable, but I'm not a geologist, but seem like since they have to redo, even in small amounts, parts of what was the original RoA, would be easier to created without that sealed area where it isn''t needed. I haven't seen any pictures lately of problems of collecting water after a heavy rain. If it were all still in place it would still be forming areas with collected rainwater.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's called clay. I could be wrong but when making man made lakes the use of clay, found on property was likely used. I maintain that they pile of dirt that we see in the pictures is much to gray to be sand or topsoil. I think it was removed and stockpiled to be used to line whatever remains of the river to be used in Piston Peak and Villains. Without some type of liner water would continuously percolate into the aquifer below and it ain't got far to go.

Silt is created with swift moving water that carries fine particles of sand and weathered stone down stream to a natural basen. The River's of America are basically stagnant water, probably filtered but lacking in natural silt. In Florida's heat a large amount of those waters will evaporate adding to the need to minimise any percolation from happening.

I suppose it is possible that they could leave it but in areas like the vicinity of the HM and Frontierland would not allow for the natural perking that might make the ground above unstable, but I'm not a geologist, but seem like since they have to redo, even in small amounts, parts of what was the original RoA, would be easier to created without that sealed area where it isn''t needed. I haven't seen any pictures lately of problems of collecting water after a heavy rain. If it were all still in place it would still be forming areas with collected rainwater.

Soil cement is not clay. That it is the base and being left in place is directly stated in the water management drawings. They’re able to leave it because it is already a solid base intended to prevent water from entering the aquifer.

The Rivers of America was not filtered water. It was directly to the Seven Seas Lagoon and part of the larger water management system. There was a lock and pumps that maintained the water level of the Rivers. If they got too low then water was pumped in from Seven Seas Lagoon.

There were photos of water collecting in the river after rains in this very thread. It is not the drier season in central Florida.

 

[jah4955]

Soil cement is not clay. That it is the base and being left in place is directly stated in the water management drawings. They’re able to leave it because it is already a solid base intended to prevent water from entering the aquifer.

The Rivers of America was not filtered water. It was directly to the Seven Seas Lagoon and part of the larger water management system. There was a lock and pumps that maintained the water level of the Rivers. If they got too low then water was pumped in from Seven Seas Lagoon.

There were photos of water collecting in the river after rains in this very thread. It is not the drier season in central Florida.

you just made me speculate....do you think this was a sort of "dress rehearsal" to some big plans for Disneyland? Multiple sources (Brickey being arguably the most popular/recent) noted that there's an old, intricate water system at Disneyland that may have long-stymied plans for Tomorrowland (ie Submarine lagoon...old Phantom Boats lagoon, etc)...

I realize it's "apples and oranges" at best...but all the "Water Managment" work that had to be done for this area may give new insights for how Disney can proceed with the systems that currently exist at Disneyland.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it

 

[Fox&Hound]

Is there a reason why they would not use the other side of the tracks for villains? Can’t the coaster go over there at least partially? Cause if there is a Malificent coaster going here it is going to eat up a lot of this land!

 

[networkpro]

That's called clay. I could be wrong but when making man made lakes the use of clay, found on property was likely used. I maintain that they pile of dirt that we see in the pictures is much to gray to be sand or topsoil. I think it was removed and stockpiled to be used to line whatever remains of the river to be used in Piston Peak and Villains. Without some type of liner water would continuously percolate into the aquifer below and it ain't got far to go.

Silt is created with swift moving water that carries fine particles of sand and weathered stone down stream to a natural basen. The River's of America are basically stagnant water, probably filtered but lacking in natural silt. In Florida's heat a large amount of those waters will evaporate adding to the need to minimise any percolation from happening.

I'll disagree with the clay attribution. That's just how the soil looks in the southern coastal areas. Its fine, plenty of sandy loam, and lots of silt.

 

[lazyboy97o]

you just made me speculate....do you think this was a sort of "dress rehearsal" to some big plans for Disneyland? Multiple sources (Brickey being arguably the most popular/recent) noted that there's an old, intricate water system at Disneyland that may have long-stymied plans for Tomorrowland (ie Submarine lagoon...old Phantom Boats lagoon, etc)...

I realize it's "apples and oranges" at best...but all the "Water Managment" work that had to be done for this area may give new insights for how Disney can proceed with the systems that currently exist at Disneyland.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it

The dark water system at Disneyland isn’t about controlling stormwater. It’s just an efficiency thing where there is one central pump moving the water instead of a bunch of individual local pumps moving the water in each location. The central pumps were even relocated for Galaxy’s Edge. The Submarine Lagoon is not part of the system as it requires very clear water. I’m not certain if the Motorboat Cruise lagoon is part of it, but if it is, it was an addition that could be removed like any other body simply by replacing it with pipes. It’s a purely artificial system so there isn’t a requirement to hold a certain minimum volume of water.

To the extent the Magic Kingdom has anything comparable it is just the Jungle Cruise and central hub waterway. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea was a separate clear water system. The Rivers of America was also separate and directly connected to Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. It also was designed with the purpose of collecting rainwater like a stormwater pond.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is there a reason why they would not use the other side of the tracks for villains? Can’t the coaster go over there at least partially? Cause if there is a Malificent coaster going here it is going to eat up a lot of this land!

A coaster doesn’t need to occupy a lot of land, just look at Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. As of right now, the railroad still remains as an obstacle that is being retained. Even a coaster going over the tracks is going to need a way to get evacuated guests back to the guest areas of the park.