WOL Demo coming ..

[flynnibus]

The entire plot revolves around these wormholes that go through both time and space.

No it doesn't - those are just instruments of the the action. They could be replaced with star trek teleporters and the whole conflict and purpose of the story wouldn't change. The fact you keep going back to that is the signal that it's pointless to have this discussion with you. You don't even understand the principles in play.

But I digress because that wasn't the claim, the CLAIM is that science fiction does not fit in Epcot and was only added with Guardians.

If you are talking about where HMF said EPCOT was about 'reality' - yes, that was a completely inaccurate word to use. You are correct, he was wrong. But so are you with your arguments of why Guardians works because of how you were trying to use other cites. Him being wrong doesn't make you right.

Future World themes were about the optimism and the potential for humanity and our advancement. Showcasing particularity how science, technology, and creativity have brought us forward and projecting how these things could enable our future and how humanity could achieve these great things. It was always about creating optimism for our future. Take note the future farming in Horizons wasn't about us escaping a dying planet.. nor was living under the oceans about escaping some surface apocalypse. They were about humanity EXPANDING our potential.

Yes, this projecting into the future is science fiction - but it's fiction ABOUT US and where futurists theorize where we could end up. THAT was the common theme and spirit. Just because the future is Science Fiction (because it literally hasn't happened yet) doesn't mean ANYTHING science fiction is the same theme. Futurists imagining what colonization or future energy is not in the same bucket as finding heros to prevent space aliens from destroying our planet.

 

[HMF]

I don't remember how/where, but I do remember EO being presented as "a creation of imagination"

That is probably the best explanation for why it works.

 

[HMF]

Debating what fits in any park has become pretty pointless if you ask me. Disney will attempt to justify just about anything to appease fans but they’re going to get that IP in there regardless. It is what it is.

There's your problem.

 

[HMF]

I still find it hard to believe Wall-E doesn't really have presence somewhere at Epcot (or even TL). Space can be a loose concept for either park IMO, and Guardians is arguably Disney's best ride right now.

The idea of a dystopian future which really is what WALL-E is does completely contradict the message of EPCOT or at least what EPCOT was.

 

[HMF]

I actually didn’t mind the idea of Coco beyond BTMRR-IF Coco ever actually comes to WDW I hope that is where it ends up-Disney could do much more with the IP that way-IMO

The problem I see there is i think the idea of entire lands dedicated to one franchise is not such a good idea. Not only does it restrain what WDI can do. A lot of movies don't have enough world-building to justify an entire land and since Coco does not take place in a fictional locale and happens in a place that actually does exist putting it into the Mexico pavilion and kicking out three cabs makes the most sense.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Yes, I get it. You will argue over anything. You never want to cede ground. It is exhausting.

I fully admit when I'm off base or actually factually wrong about something. Misrepresenting another persons argument and chiming in with an overall irrelevant point is not going to make me throw my hands up and say you're right if the argument is still fundamentally incorrect.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

No it doesn't - those are just instruments of the the action. They could be replaced with star trek teleporters and the whole conflict and purpose of the story wouldn't change. The fact you keep going back to that is the signal that it's pointless to have this discussion with you. You don't even understand the principles in play.


If you are talking about where HMF said EPCOT was about 'reality' - yes, that was a completely inaccurate word to use. You are correct, he was wrong. But so are you with your arguments of why Guardians works because of how you were trying to use other cites. Him being wrong doesn't make you right.

Future World themes were about the optimism and the potential for humanity and our advancement. Showcasing particularity how science, technology, and creativity have brought us forward and projecting how these things could enable our future and how humanity could achieve these great things. It was always about creating optimism for our future. Take note the future farming in Horizons wasn't about us escaping a dying planet.. nor was living under the oceans about escaping some surface apocalypse. They were about humanity EXPANDING our potential.

Yes, this projecting into the future is science fiction - but it's fiction ABOUT US and where futurists theorize where we could end up. THAT was the common theme and spirit. Just because the future is Science Fiction (because it literally hasn't happened yet) doesn't mean ANYTHING science fiction is the same theme. Futurists imagining what colonization or future energy is not in the same bucket as finding heros to prevent space aliens from destroying our planet.

I'm not big into star trek but from my understanding, they don't transport objects through time... which is quite literally what the entire story is about?

Eson was transported through time to the big bang to stop Earth's initial creation. Just transporting through space would not do that which means the conflict of the story would certainly change as we see Eson right next to Earth when he arrives. Without time travel, his plan would not have worked.

But the point is irrelevant as we are still talking about science fiction and I do believe that it can be plausible in an optimistic world with currently agreed on science for aliens to exist somewhere out there, with the scientific reason we haven't found them being they are simply too far, which is backed in the actual attraction as the "science".

We are shown a scientific demonstration of this wormhole generation technology which again is based on actual science as physicists have discussed theories on literally how to do this actual technology and if you go by some of their ideas, it would work quite similar with time/space travel. This is tech from a society that is "more advanced than us" but uses a lot of similar ideas. That's the connection. They are basically showing a future version of us, yes they are aliens, but they look like us, think like us, and dream like us. It's a comparison to how great our own cities and technology COULD be in the future, told through the now with a planet that simply had more time and resources than us.

But I guess you're right, it would be dumb for an Epcot attraction to feature a popular celebrity playing a hero to be saving the world from an alien with his band of misfits including a talking animal with a surrounding backing of music

That's just a stupid idea.

Anyways

 

[Bocabear]

The problem I see there is i think the idea of entire lands dedicated to one franchise is not such a good idea. Not only does it restrain what WDI can do. A lot of movies don't have enough world-building to justify an entire land and since Coco does not take place in a fictional locale and happens in a place that actually does exist putting it into the Mexico pavilion and kicking out three cabs makes the most sense.

Put the 3 Cabs on one of the balconies in the main pavilion "Plaza" and have them do a one song "show" every hour...TO add a fun little piece of whimsy to the environment... Then let COCO take over the attraction with a new attraction queue and entrance between the Pavilion and the Sommerhaus Meet and greet area... Hard to believe they have a perfect IP for a location and will not use it for "reasons" Queue size? Popularity? Having to reconfigure the building and add to the structure....but willing to completely tear down a quarter of the MK to put in an IP that does not fit the location....

 

[jah4955]

Put the 3 Cabs on one of the balconies in the main pavilion "Plaza" and have them do a one song "show" every hour...TO add a fun little piece of whimsy to the environment... Then let COCO take over the attraction with a new attraction queue and entrance between the Pavilion and the Sommerhaus Meet and greet area... Hard to believe they have a perfect IP for a location and will not use it for "reasons" Queue size? Popularity? Having to reconfigure the building and add to the structure....but willing to completely tear down a quarter of the MK to put in an IP that does not fit the location....

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm not big into star trek but from my understanding, they don't transport objects through time... which is quite literally what the entire story is about?

Eson was transported through time to the big bang to stop Earth's initial creation. Just transporting through space would not do that which means the conflict of the story would certainly change as we see Eson right next to Earth when he arrives. Without time travel, his plan would not have worked.

But the point is irrelevant as we are still talking about science fiction and I do believe that it can be plausible in an optimistic world with currently agreed on science for aliens to exist somewhere out there, with the scientific reason we haven't found them being they are simply too far, which is backed in the actual attraction as the "science".

We are shown a scientific demonstration of this wormhole generation technology which again is based on actual science as physicists have discussed theories on literally how to do this actual technology and if you go by some of their ideas, it would work quite similar with time/space travel. This is tech from a society that is "more advanced than us" but uses a lot of similar ideas. That's the connection. They are basically showing a future version of us, yes they are aliens, but they look like us, think like us, and dream like us. It's a comparison to how great our own cities and technology COULD be in the future, told through the now with a planet that simply had more time and resources than us.

But I guess you're right, it would be dumb for an Epcot attraction to feature a popular celebrity playing a hero to be saving the world from an alien with his band of misfits including a talking animal with a surrounding backing of music

That's just a stupid idea.

Anyways
View attachment 891935

That's a fair argument. I have no issue with the Guardian ride itself. IMO it would fit Epcot much better with out the IP.

 

[HMF]

Put the 3 Cabs on one of the balconies in the main pavilion "Plaza" and have them do a one song "show" every hour...TO add a fun little piece of whimsy to the environment... Then let COCO take over the attraction with a new attraction queue and entrance between the Pavilion and the Sommerhaus Meet and greet area... Hard to believe they have a perfect IP for a location and will not use it for "reasons" Queue size? Popularity? Having to reconfigure the building and add to the structure....but willing to completely tear down a quarter of the MK to put in an IP that does not fit the location....

The problem the three Cabs has always had is only one of them is Mexican the others are American or Brazilian so unless you think the US, Mexico and Brazil are interchangeable which is pretty culturally offensive. The 3 Cabs should completely depart the Mexico Pavilion.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

The problem the three Cabs has always had is only one of them is Mexican the others are American or Brazilian so unless you think the US, Mexico and Brazil are interchangeable which is pretty culturally offensive. The 3 Cabs should completely depart the Mexico Pavilion.

What? It is not offensive at all?

They never claimed that Jose is from Mexico? They are a band with one of the members native to the area on a TOUR. It's literally in the name that they are TOURING as a band and hitting up the capital to one of the band members home countries...

Are we just finding things to weirdly find offensive now? I fully agree with taking out things that are genuinely offensive but this is far more "Speedy Gonzalez" than the natives in Peter Pan or something

 

[Bocabear]

I always looked at them like 3 friends from different countries... Nothing really offensive in that...and One of them is from Mexico...VS Frozen next door where none of them are from actual Norway.... but a made up country... Like Aiden said...a traveling band which is the entire plot of the current ride... this is the "nod to the last incarnation" that would be lovely... Just a fun little occasional (throughout the day) performance...a fun little Old Disney detail... Best of all, we would not be losing what is currently the best moment of the current ride...

 

[jah4955]

What? It is not offensive at all?

They never claimed that Jose is from Mexico? They are a band with one of the members native to the area on a TOUR. It's literally in the name that they are TOURING as a band and hitting up the capital to one of the band members home countries...

Are we just finding things to weirdly find offensive now? I fully agree with taking out things that are genuinely offensive but this is far more "Speedy Gonzalez" than the natives in Peter Pan or something

I'm 0% Mexican and I find Speedy Gonzalez a bit uncomfortable to put it politely. Warner Brothers seemed as flagrantly insensitive regarding offensive stereotypes as any studio ever was (except likely DW Grffith's) BUT I've read several articles mentioning how most Mexicans and Mexican Americans still LIKE him a lot in spite of the glaring stereotypes (apparently because he's portrayed as the hero).

I've never heard of anyone being offended by Jose or Panchito.... or of all 3 featured in the Mexico Pavilion. Isn't "Sombrero Donald" still effectively the walkaround mascot for this pavilion too?

Again, there is no such thing as a person without flaws. Disney artists, in creating Jose & Panchito, thought they were being as respectful as possible to the cultures they represented. Would they be different if they were designed in 2025? I'm sure of it. But I'm also confident they were the best anyone could have done in 1941 & 1944 respectively.

We'd have to flatten everything in the parks like they just flattened TSI if we consider everything that could remotely or hypothetically offend anyone...and even THAT wouldn't be enough.

I accept the inevitable removal of 3C for Coco...I will never accept it removed b/c someone found it offensive.

 

[jah4955]

Just a fun little occasional (throughout the day) performance...a fun little Old Disney detail... Best of all, we would not be losing what is currently the best moment of the current ride...

like how Kim Possible, Perry, and Ducktales have been in WS the last quarter century?

 

[Bocabear]

like how Kim Possible, Perry, and Ducktales have been in WS the last quarter century?

I don't remember any of those characters having an actual attraction in WS... more like a little extra thing you can do with the kiddos... And while not offensive, I would prefer the WS to be focused on the countries they represent... At least one of the characters is actually from Mexico, the others are his friends... it works in the abstract especially when the new attractioon would be solely focused on a character from Mexico with some appropriate Mexican culture...

 

[jah4955]

I don't remember any of those characters having an actual attraction in WS... more like a little extra thing you can do with the kiddos... And while not offensive, I would prefer the WS to be focused on the countries they represent... At least one of the characters is actually from Mexico, the others are his friends... it works in the abstract especially when the new attractioon would be solely focused on a character from Mexico with some appropriate Mexican culture...

This! Yes...I was thinking of that cell-phone scavenger hunt thingy lol. Haven't been to EPCOT since 2020 (or 2021) so don't know if it's still there.

 

[Brer Panther]

If we wanna talk about offensive stereotypes, imagine if they built a Columbia pavilion and the only attraction in it starred the characters from Modern Family.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I'm 0% Mexican and I find Speedy Gonzalez a bit uncomfortable to put it politely. Warner Brothers seemed as flagrantly insensitive regarding offensive stereotypes as any studio ever was (except likely DW Grffith's) BUT I've read several articles mentioning how most Mexicans and Mexican Americans still LIKE him a lot in spite of the glaring stereotypes (apparently because he's portrayed as the hero).

I've never heard of anyone being offended by Jose or Panchito.... or of all 3 featured in the Mexico Pavilion. Isn't "Sombrero Donald" still effectively the walkaround mascot for this pavilion too?

Again, there is no such thing as a person without flaws. Disney artists, in creating Jose & Panchito, thought they were being as respectful as possible to the cultures they represented. Would they be different if they were designed in 2025? I'm sure of it. But I'm also confident they were the best anyone could have done in 1941 & 1944 respectively.

We'd have to flatten everything in the parks like they just flattened TSI if we consider everything that could remotely or hypothetically offend anyone...and even THAT wouldn't be enough.

I accept the inevitable removal of 3C for Coco...I will never accept it removed b/c someone found it offensive.

For full clarity, I am Hispanic but not Mexican, however, my neighbors are Mexican and absolutely love Speedy.
Honestly, in my opinion, there's quite a lot of people "talking for us" in certain things (in general with Hispanics) that don't make much sense. But I will digress as that's not part of this convo.

 

[jah4955]

For full clarity, I am Hispanic but not Mexican, however, my neighbors are Mexican and absolutely love Speedy.
Honestly, in my opinion, there's quite a lot of people "talking for us" in certain things (in general with Hispanics) that don't make much sense. But I will digress as that's not part of this convo.

Thank you for reminding that this is a forum on the possible demo of a building begging for a mercy killing imo.