Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am not going to opine on why this doesn't happen as much anymore (costs, profits, etc.), but it would be nice if the US could get back to building starter homes.

Also, I think we went off topic. lol

Where’s the fun in that?

You gotta feed the beast and that doesn’t do it.

And the beast used to be a German Shepard…now it’s one of these

Spoiler: It won’t bite…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

View attachment 889935

Shouldn’t you be at a buccees on I-75 in Georgia running for your life right now?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't know how anyone that pays attention to what is actually happening out there would think it's just a Disney phenomenon. I often think people in Disney forums live in a bubble or something.

One of the obvious issues is all the major “news” providers are run by for profit media or tech conglomerates…

It’s not in their best interests to highlight debt, income gap, or outrageous corporate gouging tactics…

Because they’re trying to sell you their amusement parks during the commercial breaks or data mine you to other paid sponsor sites…

Worried people don’t spend as much and they think more…so the actual conditions have been systematically “skirted” for decades…and almost horribly so the last 5

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not just Disney World like many of us have been saying. There's something in the air in 2025.

Totally agree

So does a good management raise the prices in an attempt to keep the smoke screen up and guarantee quarterlies will be met?

Or do they stack sandbags and try to shore up the fundamentals to whether the coming storm?

And now we’re all past GO and do not collect the $200

 

[jah4955]

I don't know what defines a starter homes but all around me there are MASSIVE communities being build on former farmland.

residential construction EVERYWHERE around me:

• remaining "virgin" land being cleared as fast as Disney's fastest demo work and built as fast as a the newest DVC. Houses popping up like mushrooms
• Malls & shopping centers partially or completely bulldozed for townhomes.
• Residential areas of single family homes (including almost half of my grandparents' neighborhood as just one example) bulldozed for high rise, high density apartments.
• Various other buildings of all types (residential, office, & commercial) along major roads bulldozed and replaced with mostly residential high-rises of all sorts
• And absolutely no expansion/improvement of infrastructure as far as I can tell

But ....everything constructed that I've seen is advertised as either "luxury" rentals or (at BEST) "from the $400s"

 

[Disstevefan1]

• remaining "virgin" land being cleared as fast as Disney's fastest demo work and built as fast as a the newest DVC. Houses popping up like mushrooms
• Malls & shopping centers partially or completely bulldozed for townhomes.
• Residential areas of single family homes (including almost half of my grandparents' neighborhood as just one example) bulldozed for high rise, high density apartments.
• Various other buildings of all types (residential, office, & commercial) along major roads bulldozed and replaced with mostly residential high-rises of all sorts
• And absolutely no expansion/improvement of infrastructure as far as I can tell

But ....everything constructed that I've seen is advertised as either "luxury" rentals or (at BEST) "from the $400s"

In my area, the roadwork to support the new communities is also massive AND A HUGE PAIN IN THE NECK but necessary I guess.

 

[jah4955]

In my area, the roadwork to support the new communities is also massive AND A HUGE PAIN IN THE NECK but necessary I guess.

it's relatively less bad in the long run....all our roads are getting more and more gridlocked all the time and the only project I know of is going to REMOVE a lane of traffic

 

[Miss Bella]

What a wild, disconnected take. The housing market is in one of the most unaffordable states in decades, but it's a millennial's fault they buy a coffee once a week on the way to work? It also doesn't help that most banks won't help finance a home purchase because they can't prove a family can make their monthly payments, all the while they're paying more for their monthly apartment payments than their mortgage would be.

It's even more complicated than that when you have Blackrock buying up all the homes. Whats going on with housing is probably too far off topic here.

 

[Miss Bella]

I don't know what defines a starter homes but all around me there are MASSIVE communities being build on former farmland.

We have apartment building going up every where that literally look like prisons. Also these super ugly mini houses.

 

[Miss Bella]

That is a tremendous oversimplification

Sure people spend too much on …that’s what our celebrated free market model governed by business behemoths (cough) have pushed for 50 years…

…but when the cost of education and housing in particular doubled in ten years if you’re LUCKY…then it’s not just that kids shop at the banana republic too much

The train is out of control and is being watched by people who would be well suited to be con artists in a banana republic

We bought our first home at age 26 on very middle class incomes. We didn't have to starve or eliminate all enjoyable activities to do it.
It's not just the cost of housing that has gone up it's also the cost of heating/cooling and maintaining that house. We still live in the same house. I've gone from having the highest AC bill being around 300 a month in July and August. This was 6 years ago to paying 350 a month year round with budget billing. My AC bills in the Summer now run close to 600 dollars month.

 

[jah4955]

We have apartment building going up every where that literally look like prisons. Also these super ugly mini houses.

"I believe people still want to live like human beings." --Walt Disney

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We bought our first home at age 26 on very middle class incomes. We didn't have to starve or eliminate all enjoyable activities to do it.
It's not just the cost of housing that has gone up it's also the cost of heating/cooling and maintaining that house. We still live in the same house. I've gone from having the highest AC bill being around 300 a month in July and August. This was 6 years ago to paying 350 a month year round with budget billing. My AC bills in the Summer now run close to 600 dollars month.

If you want to do a deep dive…the numbers of imbalance now are rivaling the 1920s…that always works. Nothing close to 1940-1980…which was the most stable economy in world history.

We could go on for days…but let’s go back to them raising prices as attendance continues to bleed. What geniuses.

Anecdotal from today:
My daughter said there’s a “rumor” that the school senior trip for 2028 (her year) to Orlando is not gonna Happen. 2026 (my other one) and 2027 are locked in. Which makes perfect sense if you know how groups/wdw bookings through agencies are done…
I know “a guy” on that…

What is key is if you zip code me…there is NO WAY that this one should be in the “you priced us out” range. Not even close.

So the fight between the school…the third party in the middle and Disney is a terrible sign for both the public and more importantly Disney. They’re gonna have to play ball more and more…which is what @monothingie and others have been saying for years. You can’t do the Wizard of Oz routine for bobs stockbrokers benefit forever. That math ain’t mathin.

 

[jah4955]

Anecdotal from today:
My daughter said there’s a “rumor” that the school senior trip for 2028 (her year) to Orlando is not gonna Happen.

My class trip to Disney was cancelled because we were baaaaad (school has since closed down...we were the only class post 1972 not to have a Disney trip)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

residential construction EVERYWHERE around me:

• remaining "virgin" land being cleared as fast as Disney's fastest demo work and built as fast as a the newest DVC. Houses popping up like mushrooms
• Malls & shopping centers partially or completely bulldozed for townhomes.
• Residential areas of single family homes (including almost half of my grandparents' neighborhood as just one example) bulldozed for high rise, high density apartments.
• Various other buildings of all types (residential, office, & commercial) along major roads bulldozed and replaced with mostly residential high-rises of all sorts
• And absolutely no expansion/improvement of infrastructure as far as I can tell

But ....everything constructed that I've seen is advertised as either "luxury" rentals or (at BEST) "from the $400s"

They are building townhouses “starting in the $460s” about a mile down the road on repoed farmland and I heard the open house a month ago looked like a Parisian mob out front…

Looked like a toyrus on Black Friday in 1989.

The prime demographic jumping at them?
Booms letting their McMansions from
Across town go to their kids/grandkids so they can be proud they don’t have to leave town when they do carpools for the lacrosse teams in their lululemons

…I wish I was making that up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My class trip to Disney was cancelled because we were baaaaad (school has since closed down...we were the only class post 1972 not to have a Disney trip)

Legendary!

That’s the way to go out

 

[jah4955]

They are building townhouses “starring in the $460s” about a mile down the road on repoed farmland and I heard the open house a month ago looked like a Parisian mob out front…

Looked like a toyrus on Black Friday in 1989.

The prime demographic jumping at them?
Booms letting their McMansions from
Across town go to their kids/grandkids so they can be proud they don’t have to leave town when they do carpools for the lacrosse teams in their lululemons

…I wish I was making that up.

It's even worse now, but you reminded me how bad it was when I was looking for my first home (2005 unfortunately). It was 1 of numerous "apartment to condo conversions," except this one was adjacent "Mount Trashmore." The realtor admitted I'd be dealing with "quite of whiff every now and then," but it was my "last chance to own!"

She then said if I was interested they'd add my name to a lottery and that those most-fortunate enough to have their number pulled from that hat would have the "privilege" of buying such prime real estate.

I had enough sense to say "No thank you. Goodbye."

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would be interested what @PREMiERdrum has to say about this thread?

But I think he’s busy in the school year.

 

[jah4955]

Legendary!

That’s the way to go out

One example...we made so many teachers quit. The last one was quite tough, and the very first thing she said to us was "there ain't no way you're getting rid of me!" It took awhile ...but the last day of exams she was crying in a corner of the room...it was for a good reason....wish we weren't that bad....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's even worse now, but you reminded me how bad it was when I was looking for my first home (2005 unfortunately). It was 1 of numerous "apartment to condo conversions," except this one was adjacent "Mount Trashmore." The realtor admitted I'd be dealing with "quite of whiff every now and then," but it was my "last chance to own!"

She then said if I was interested they'd add my name to a lottery and that those most-fortunate enough to have their number pulled from that hat would have the "privilege" of buying such prime real estate.

I had enough sense to say "No thank you. Goodbye."

Yep…

Very similar to the Phil graham crash…

We had open houses in the Jerz then where the realtor would have competing offers shouted at them outside the front door with a bidding war

Like a ferengi auction house…

What the takeaway is there is people still refuse to say that was dumb.

My BIL closed on his current house on 6/30/08 (bad timing) for around $505? Two years later there was a bill board a mile from the house by
The awful commercial builder above the Turnpike advertising a slightly larger model for $269 and up…

To this day doesn’t acknowledge the bubble got him.

The house would sell for maybe low to mid $5s even today

What an ROI!!

Anyway…back to Bob and his puppet tightpants mismanaging the place

 

[jah4955]

Anyway…back to Bob and his puppet tightpants mismanaging the place

Agreed! Only part way through but anyone else reading the new Tommy Hawkins piece?