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News Guest dies, found unresponsive after riding Stardust Racers

My95cobras

Well-Known Member
And now I'll choose not to. I'm sure you can make up for it though. Maybe they'll even reward you for your loyalty.


Things aren't actually going on as normal though. It's NOT business as usual, and we STILL don't know anything. That should be concerning to everyone. And if there's even a possibility that they're unsure of what happened, the ride shouldn't be open. Point blank.


You won't find it anywhere. He's just assuming. The overzealous rule change tells us nothing useful, especially since it mostly affects rides that have had no such incidents and share nothing in common with Stardust Racers. The victim most likely even rode some of them with no issue. This is why an explanation would be most helpful, but everyone would rather play detective and jump to conclusions based on one, very broad & extreme change in policy that most likely exists out of an overabundance in caution and litigation mitigation, rather than any carefully considered reasoning.

Cool bro. Not sure what your point is still. I’ll still spend what I always do, our monthly passes cost plus food, cocktails etc. good news is it’s one less annoying person to have to deal with whilst there.
 
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StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Things aren't actually going on as normal though. It's NOT business as usual, and we STILL don't know anything. That should be concerning to everyone. And if there's even a possibility that they're unsure of what happened, the ride shouldn't be open. Point blank.
There have been actual cases where riders were killed due to negligence on the part of the theme park.

One was a woman who fell out of a rollercoaster at Six Flags Texas. https://web.archive.org/web/2016030...-incident-texas-giant-said-to-be-involved.ece

There was the boy who was decapitated by a water slide. https://people.howstuffworks.com/caleb-schwab-info.htm

And of course the Icon Park accident https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/o...adjustments-to-tyre-sampsons-seat-report-says

Let's talk about these cases. We'll go with Icon first, because this was the most obvious case of negligence. The restraints were adjusted beyond what the manufacturer specified to allow for larger guests to ride. The manufacturer clearly designed the restraints to lock, and if they didn't, there was the potential for this to happen. Some rides/rollercoasters have seats that are larger to accommodate larger guests (Bolliger and Mabillard inverted coasters, for instance); however, this was not the case. They ultimately took this ride down.

Schlitterbahn - Oh, this case. This ride was not designed by actual engineers. The guy who came up with it set out to break a world record without knowing enough about ride safety to actually be qualified to design a ride. He kept tearing down and redoing the ride in hopes it would work. That ride was never safe.

Six Flags Texas - This is another clear cut case of a restraint not being correct as the woman did not hear her restraint latch three times as with other guests. The interesting thing about this case, though, is that this happened in 2013, and guess what? This ride operates to this day without incident. In fact, there are many similar RMC models operating. They closed the ride and changed the restraints. Should the woman's family still file suit? Absolutely, park was still at fault. But it still is now safe to ride.

Now we go to this ride. This is a launched rollercoaster designed by Mack rides. Mack rides has close to 200 ride installations around the world. This is not the first multi launch rollercoaster that they have designed either. It's the first dueling one, and it's one of the longest, but the ride system isn't a prototype (think Cosmic Rewind which is the only omnicoaster in existence at this point). The design is not only designed by experts, but it is a tried and true design at this point.

Now we come to this incident. We have a rollercoaster which is very intense. It has multiple launches, drops, and an inversion. That is going to cause changes in g-forces. Not only will you get the positive g-forces from the launch, inversion, and turns, but then you get the negative g-forces from the drops (air time). That's a lot of changes to g-forces on your body. A healthy individual can easily tolerate that, however. We know in this case that this individual had a known spinal issue. The family has said that it was not a contributing factor, but when you have g-forces like this on a spine that's not 100% healthy, you are taking that risk.

We also have three separate investigations into this ride: Universal, Mack Rides and the state of Florida. All three investigations have concluded that ride systems operated as intended, the park staff followed safety protocols, and that the ride was safe to reopen.

There is no reason for this ride to remain closed. None.

Incidentally, five people have died on Space Mountain, and there were 337 reports of injuries and illnesses within the first ten months of it opening. Last I checked, it's still operating 50 years later.
 

lewisc

Well-Known Member
A person recently died after riding the Haunted Mansion in DL.
Could we finally have our 1,000th ghost?

Universal already said it operated as designed and intended. Riding restrictions were tweaked.

That's all the information Universal has shared. It's enough for most.


I'll speculate some of the tweaks are to better accomodate evacuation. A rider has to be able to leave a ride vehicle at intermediate evacuation locations.

Whiners should send an inquiry to Universal. The response might give you some information.

Posting on internet fan boards is like spitting into the wind.
 

StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I'll speculate some of the tweaks are to better accomodate evacuation.
I also wonder if they've added cameras so that there are people watching riders in case something like this happens. They (rightfully) don't allow cell phones on this ride, so adding cameras to potentially spot a guest in medical distress so they can call for help would be a reasonable precaution, no different than a lifeguard in a pool. Adding training for team members to recognize a medical emergency and respond is also reasonable. Additional AEDs would also be reasonable.

I want to stress, again, that this is not because the ride is dangerous but because a guest may have a medical issue that wouldn't surface until going on a ride like this one. It's a very, very rare occurrence, but even so, if it happens, then having the tools to save someone.

In a public place like Uni, there should be plenty of AEDs around anyway. As the HM incident illustrates (seems like it was a heart event with that woman), heart attacks can happen just about any time.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
We also have three separate investigations into this ride: Universal, Mack Rides and the state of Florida. All three investigations have concluded that ride systems operated as intended, the park staff followed safety protocols, and that the ride was safe to reopen.
These investigations were not of the deceased himself or the specific cause of his death.

Universal decided that there was an issue to warrant changes at multiple rides. If that’s not actually the case, then they chose to scapegoat a group of guests.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
We also have three separate investigations into this ride: Universal, Mack Rides and the state of Florida. All three investigations have concluded that ride systems operated as intended, the park staff followed safety protocols, and that the ride was safe to reopen.

No, that is not what the information we have right now nor do you know what their findings were. You have very isolated statements made, and a decision to reopen with policy changes.

The only information we have is that the state and Uni inspected the right, and found it operating 'as intended' which the state agency echo'd. That does not mean that is the breadth of their investigation, nor their total findings.

All we know is UNI has internally concluded they can reopen the ride with only limiting who can ride. You can't take leaps from these very limited references to apply to all concerns.

When the police say "the car lost control, and went off the road" as the cause of an accident.. that is not the entirety of the investigation, or conclusions, nor findings. It's a statement of evidence based on the inspection/investigation at that time. It in itself is not the entirety of the investigation -- just like the car example provided.

To the morons trying to mock other posters... you literally have a family who lost their child on the ride and UNI isn't talking to them either.. nor the press... and you all are like 'This is fine..' simply because you can ride again. It's exactly this kind of stonewalling that has lead to greater regulation of the industry in most places -- because people didn't find it acceptable.
 

StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
No and it’s amazing how people keep jumping to ridiculous straw men. You made a claim about the number of investigations while just ignoring that none of them had to do with a major piece of the puzzle.
And you ignore the fact that there is in fact an autopsy that declared the cause of death as multiple blunt for trauma, which is consistent with someone passing out and being banged around on a rollercoaster, but otherwise the report is not public, so it therefore cannot be used in the investigations other than likely that of the state of Florida. The family also has not released specifics of his condition. I am not sure how you expect information that isn't available to factor into an investigation.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And you ignore the fact that there is in fact an autopsy that declared the cause of death as multiple blunt for trauma, which is consistent with someone passing out and being banged around on a rollercoaster, but otherwise the report is not public, so it therefore cannot be used in the investigations other than likely that of the state of Florida. The family also has not released specifics of his condition. I am not sure how you expect information that isn't available to factor into an investigation.
This is just incorrect. The final medical examiner’s report is not complete and will be public when it is complete.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
And you ignore the fact that there is in fact an autopsy that declared the cause of death as multiple blunt for trauma, which is consistent with someone passing out and being banged around on a rollercoaster, but otherwise the report is not public, so it therefore cannot be used in the investigations other than likely that of the state of Florida. The family also has not released specifics of his condition

No and no

ME released the cause of death - not the autopsy report.
Family did release specifics of his pre-existing condition. They can't have some independent autopsy results for the same reason the state's results weren't yet complete.
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
There have been actual cases where riders were killed due to negligence on the part of the theme park.

One was a woman who fell out of a rollercoaster at Six Flags Texas. https://web.archive.org/web/2016030...-incident-texas-giant-said-to-be-involved.ece

There was the boy who was decapitated by a water slide. https://people.howstuffworks.com/caleb-schwab-info.htm

And of course the Icon Park accident https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/o...adjustments-to-tyre-sampsons-seat-report-says

Let's talk about these cases. We'll go with Icon first, because this was the most obvious case of negligence. The restraints were adjusted beyond what the manufacturer specified to allow for larger guests to ride. The manufacturer clearly designed the restraints to lock, and if they didn't, there was the potential for this to happen. Some rides/rollercoasters have seats that are larger to accommodate larger guests (Bolliger and Mabillard inverted coasters, for instance); however, this was not the case. They ultimately took this ride down.

Schlitterbahn - Oh, this case. This ride was not designed by actual engineers. The guy who came up with it set out to break a world record without knowing enough about ride safety to actually be qualified to design a ride. He kept tearing down and redoing the ride in hopes it would work. That ride was never safe.

Six Flags Texas - This is another clear cut case of a restraint not being correct as the woman did not hear her restraint latch three times as with other guests. The interesting thing about this case, though, is that this happened in 2013, and guess what? This ride operates to this day without incident. In fact, there are many similar RMC models operating. They closed the ride and changed the restraints. Should the woman's family still file suit? Absolutely, park was still at fault. But it still is now safe to ride.

Now we go to this ride. This is a launched rollercoaster designed by Mack rides. Mack rides has close to 200 ride installations around the world. This is not the first multi launch rollercoaster that they have designed either. It's the first dueling one, and it's one of the longest, but the ride system isn't a prototype (think Cosmic Rewind which is the only omnicoaster in existence at this point). The design is not only designed by experts, but it is a tried and true design at this point.

Now we come to this incident. We have a rollercoaster which is very intense. It has multiple launches, drops, and an inversion. That is going to cause changes in g-forces. Not only will you get the positive g-forces from the launch, inversion, and turns, but then you get the negative g-forces from the drops (air time). That's a lot of changes to g-forces on your body. A healthy individual can easily tolerate that, however. We know in this case that this individual had a known spinal issue. The family has said that it was not a contributing factor, but when you have g-forces like this on a spine that's not 100% healthy, you are taking that risk.

We also have three separate investigations into this ride: Universal, Mack Rides and the state of Florida. All three investigations have concluded that ride systems operated as intended, the park staff followed safety protocols, and that the ride was safe to reopen.

There is no reason for this ride to remain closed. None.

Incidentally, five people have died on Space Mountain, and there were 337 reports of injuries and illnesses within the first ten months of it opening. Last I checked, it's still operating 50 years later.

The investigation has not concluded at all, only Universal's own inspections of the ride. The investigation doesn't conclude until the investigators say it does, and that will require a finished autopsy report among other things.

I really don't see the point in your Space Mountain example, even if I'm not familiar with the details of those deaths. Less than five people have died on Thunder Mountain at Disneyland, and it's still operating. Does that mean it was always safe to ride?

And you ignore the fact that there is in fact an autopsy that declared the cause of death as multiple blunt for trauma, which is consistent with someone passing out and being banged around on a rollercoaster
What? That's not consistent with anything. People pass out on roller coasters all the time. They don't all die. Why are we trying to normalize the highly unusual circumstances surrounding this incident?
 
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Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
What? That's not consistent with anything. People pass out on roller coasters all the time. They don't all die. Why are we trying to normalize the highly unusual circumstances surrounding this incident?

Why are you continuing to handwave the fact that the one person out of the million+ who have ridden that died just happened to be a paraplegic with an existing spinal condition?

Their response in updating their restrictions is also consistent with his conditions being the cause and not simply just him passing out.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Why are you continuing to handwave the fact that the one person out of the million+ who have ridden that died just happened to be a paraplegic with an existing spinal condition?

Their response in updating their restrictions is also consistent with his conditions being the cause and not simply just him passing out.
Because correlation does not equal causation. Universal doesn’t get special access to information from the medical examiner.

The response being consist with such a cause means Universal spent years putting people’s lives in danger by not just allowing them to ride, but in some cases designing rides to facilitate their ability to ride. And not just Universal, but multiple manufacturers who are currently being negligent by not pushing for all similar rides to update their requirements.
 

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