News Guest dies, found unresponsive after riding Stardust Racers

[disneylandtour]

Thanks for the update. Do you expect the attraction to be closed this entire time, or just don’t know anything further?

I can't imagine a situation in which the coaster re-opens before multiple reports are finished, including a full medical report. I'm pretty sure there will also be reviews of how this particular track course interacts with the restraint system, a report on its structural integrity, and a report on how operation may have placed unforeseen stresses on the system. Also a review of how water-filled dummies were used to test Gs and restraints. I think we're really looking at months. And the outcome may be a change to policies or a change to the track, restraints, or ride vehicles, which could be extensive.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A guess here: as similar Mack coaster have similars ADA / Amputee guidance, I'm guessing these similar statements of guidance came from Mack. And the pieces, with the Thorpe Park change, seem to be pointing to something related to body type as at least one cause of the tragedy, which is related to to the ADA / Amputee guidance. Again, there's a lot of unknowns presently, but my sense, based on the small pieces known, seems to point things gently in this direction.

Except some of the changes at Thorpe Park, which is so far the only reported change, have to do with guests without hands.

 

[disneylandtour]

I know nothing further, but would guess that due to the press and the fact that there is a death, the reopening of the attraction is now beyond the decision makers in Orlando and is now up to the C-suite in Philadelphia.

This is speculation though.

This is a great question. Typically, Disney and Universal self-regulate in Florida. But also, the county sheriff has started its own investigation, which includes a medical report. For a minor accident, Disney and Universal could decide when to re-open on their own. Does this still hold when there's been a death? At a certain point, external oversight supersedes self-regulation. I would assume that with a death, we're at that point. But also, I don't know.

 

[disneylandtour]

Except some of the changes at Thorpe Park, which is so far the only reported change, have to do with guests without hands.

It seems to be that Thorpe is casting a wide net to include any other body type variations that also might not have been adequately protected by the Mack restraint system. A chunk of this is all about legal protection for Thorpe. There is now the possibility of a design problem in terms of seating compartment and/or restraints (we don't know that yet, but this now seems to be one of a very few reasonable possibilities). Thorpe (and I would assume Europa, very soon) need to demonstrate that they reacted in a timely fashion to this information, otherwise they may appear negligent if a similar accident happens there.

 

[Comped]

A guess here: as similar Mack coaster have similars ADA / Amputee guidance, I'm guessing these similar statements of guidance came from Mack. And the pieces, with the Thorpe Park change, seem to be pointing to something related to body type as at least one cause of the tragedy, which is related to to the ADA / Amputee guidance. Again, there's a lot of unknowns presently, but my sense, based on the small pieces known, seems to point things gently in this direction.

Yep. I saw that and totally forgot to mention that - but the changes there do seem to cover a lot of ground that isn't

With past Orlando park tragedies, if there were pre-existing conditions, they almost always came out quickly with the initial report.

Correct. Which has been my point all along. We'd not have the attraction closed for week, or months, if the guy died from a heart attack or something, based on previous incidents and timelines.

I can't imagine a situation in which the coaster re-opens before multiple reports are finished, including a full medical report. I'm pretty sure there will also be reviews of how this particular track course interacts with the restraint system, a report on its structural integrity, and a report on how operation may have placed unforeseen stresses on the system. Also a review of how water-filled dummies were used to test Gs and restraints. I think we're really looking at months. And the outcome may be a change to policies or a change to the track, restraints, or ride vehicles, which could be extensive.

I personally think that 3-4 months is a likely timeline for the coaster to reopen (assuming they wait for the ME report to do so), given most of those reports can be done in a much shorter amount of time than the ME report.

Except some of the changes at Thorpe Park, which is so far the only reported change, have to do with guests without hands.

Correct. It could be overreaction to this incident, it could be to ensure the coaster is in line with the Equality Act 2010, it could have been planned changes. We will likely never know.

This is a great question. Typically, Disney and Universal self-regulate in Florida. But also, the county sheriff has started its own investigation, which includes a medical report. For a minor accident, Disney and Universal could decide when to re-open on their own. Does this still hold when there's been a death? At a certain point, external oversight supersedes self-regulation. I would assume that with a death, we're at that point. But also, I don't know.

Also the very small chance that there's an active criminal investigation that could result in an outcome almost nobody's considered (charges, which would be quite unprecedented). Highly, highly, highly, unlikely but it cannot be ruled out.

 

[Minthorne]

State investigators say they agree with Universal Orlando Resort's findings that a ride was operating normally when a guest became unconscious and later died.

"The department's current findings align with those shared by Universal after monitoring the same tests and reviewing the same information. The investigation is ongoing, and additional information will be released as it becomes available," the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services said.

Universal Orlando Resort president says Stardust Racers ride was functioning properly

WESH 2 has obtained a copy of a letter sent to Universal Orlando employees after the death of a guest who rode the Stardust Racers roller coaster.

www.wesh.com

 

[Sir_Cliff]

State investigators say they agree with Universal Orlando Resort's findings that a ride was operating normally when a guest became unconscious and later died.

"The department's current findings align with those shared by Universal after monitoring the same tests and reviewing the same information. The investigation is ongoing, and additional information will be released as it becomes available," the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services said.

Universal Orlando Resort president says Stardust Racers ride was functioning properly

WESH 2 has obtained a copy of a letter sent to Universal Orlando employees after the death of a guest who rode the Stardust Racers roller coaster.

www.wesh.com

At least that puts to rest the rumour about the ride coming apart.

We shall see what caused this, but very sad when things like this happen, particularly as it seems everything was working correctly and the attraction was, no doubt, tested quite thoroughly.

 

[BrianLo]

Blatant speculation…

Emerg doctors writing an initial cause of death are also far from infallible and I have a feeling we will circle back to the cause of death not being multiple blunt force trauma. It’s possible for an external object, but Occam’s razor would generally suggest a guest with a prior spinal cord injury wouldn’t be the random unlucky one.

This is to imply no impropriety on anyone’s behalf on my part, including the guests. A concealed arrhythmia generally makes the most sense with bruising to me.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Was anyone able to confirm/deny this person rode Stardust multiple times? Just asking.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Blatant speculation…

Emerg doctors writing an initial cause of death are also far from infallible and I have a feeling we will circle back to the cause of death not being multiple blunt force trauma. It’s possible for an external object, but Occam’s razor would generally suggest a guest with a prior spinal cord injury wouldn’t be the random unlucky one.

This is to imply no impropriety on anyone’s behalf on my part, including the guests. A concealed arrhythmia generally makes the most sense with bruising to me.

Is hitting one’s head repeatedly on the back of the seat, such as during launches, within the realm of plausibility?

 

[flynnibus]

That’s precisely what I’m saying. In response to all the speculation, multiple blunt force trauma as the primary cause of death is the issue. The medical examiner has made the current call that the coaster killed him.

No - the medical examiner's 'cause of death' is not in any means an investigation into WHY or HOW they died. It simply describes the cause of death itself.

If you were thrown from the ride vehicle outright and died from the high speed impact with the ground - The cause of death would be 'blunt force trauma' -- Not "ejection from ride vehicle".

In the same vein, the ME's initial findings are not a declaration of what came first.. if the guy passed out, or if he got hit by a meteor. The ME is only concerned with the individual themselves, not the environment, or external circumstances. Their later reports will dive deeper into any hints the body can give.. like if injuries were pre or post death, toxicology, etc and they may or may not be able to offer a more details in a squence of events. But all you should be taking from the report so far is 'the part that actually killed him, was the body trauma' -- Not what may have proceeded that trauma.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Is hitting one’s head repeatedly on the back of the seat, such as during launches, within the realm of plausibility?

The multiple launches could certainly play a factor.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Is it possible a normally healthy person, lets say dehydrated from a day at EPIC and as a result has a low BP happens to pass out on Stardust. Will this person suffer multiple blunt force trauma? Or does the normally healthy person only pass out momentarily like we see on the 192 slingshot videos on YouTube?

Or are the G forces on Stardust well within the safe range for almost everyone?

 

[DisneyHead123]

Is it possible a normally healthy person, lets say dehydrated from a day at EPIC and as a result has a low BP happens to pass out on Stardust. Will this person suffer multiple blunt force trauma? Or does the normally healthy person only pass out momentarily like we see on the 192 slingshot videos on YouTube?

Or are the G forces on Stardust well within the safe range for almost everyone?

Since other parks have focused on people with physical differences, more likely this was caused by some type of physiological difference vs. simply passing out.

 

[flynnibus]

At least that puts to rest the rumour about the ride coming apart.

We shall see what caused this, but very sad when things like this happen, particularly as it seems everything was working correctly and the attraction was, no doubt, tested quite thoroughly.

I don't think we can read much into these statements from UNI. They are basically saying "we did what we are supposed to" -- not that "the ride was safe" or "it had to be X". All they are saying is (paraphrasing) "we followed the book" and that the ride was found to be operating AS DESIGNED. That doesn't mean the design was right, safe, or without oversight. It just means things operated as they were expected to within the existing design.

This is critical because so much of the regulation is written around the operator following the requirements of the manufacturer and their SOP. All they are basically saying at this point is "there wasn't a mistake made by Ops" or some known maintenance gap.

For all we know, the ride could have been designed for something to break off under a criteria, and it doing so would still be "everything worked as designed" -- That's an exaggeration, as we know it's highly unlikely for the design to include anything intentionally coming free on a high speed vehicle like this.. but it's used to illustrate the point. The statement is only to say "everyone was doing as they were told to do" and that the ride system did what was EXPECTED of it.

The problem is -- when the design itself is the issue or things that were not covered by the design. That's why it's still possible for the Ops or Ride system to be at fault, while not contradicting those kinds of statements.

UNI is just saying everything was done properly and there was no observed failure of the ride to do what it was supposed to do. The grey area is, what if that was insufficient?

Personally I find the top of unconscious riders an interesting subject.. something I can't imagine the ride manufacturers HAVEN'T considered... especially given the lack of rider monitoring on trains so I find it hard to believe that is the sole factor in this accident. Plus, I find the lack of witness reports also highly unusual. If the guy was flopping around like a rag doll... someone would have noticed and I don't think all leaks would be tight enough on this.

I'm still of the opinion that this will be some combination of factors and unusual consequence. Like maybe trauma caused by excessive movement or some freak combination. Freak like, you can fall and hit your head hundreds of times in your lifetime without any issue.. that doesn't mean you can't hit your head and die that one time.

Without more details about the injuries, it's just wild a** guessing at this point.

 

[mergatroid]

I'm still of the opinion that this will be some combination of factors and unusual consequence. Like maybe trauma caused by excessive movement or some freak combination. Freak like, you can fall and hit your head hundreds of times in your lifetime without any issue.. that doesn't mean you can't hit your head and die that one time.

Without more details about the injuries, it's just wild a** guessing at this point.

You raise an excellent point. A guy I went to school with got in a fight and ended up dead. It wasn't a particularly brutal fight either. A punch thrown each and he sadly ended up dead and the other guy in prison for man slaughter, two lives ruined. Most times in that similar circumstance both men would probably end up stopping after a couple of punches, with them possibly laughing over a beer shortly afterwards whilst arguing which of them had the most pathetic punch.

That day however the guy I knew took a very weak punch and fell hitting his head and the curb and that was what killed him. It's then up to the prosecutors how hard they go on the guy who had no intention of killing somebody and probably did less intentionally than most people do when in a fight but bad luck meant he's now responsible for a death.

From a legal perspective if that's the case in this very sad incident and 1 time in 1000 that impact can kill somebody then I imagine there'd be a big law suit as ultimately not every safety precaution was covered even though whoever was sued would probably get more sympathy from the public than if it was a known issue they'd ignored?

I realise that the priority is to prevent other deaths over the public's perception but certainly a freak occurrence that unexpectantly happened for possibly the first time ever is probably slightly easier to live with than a death through short cuts or gross negligence.

Ultimately there are no real winners in these cases.

 

[lewisc]

Was anyone able to confirm/deny this person rode Stardust multiple times? Just asking.

An "internet fact". I think the source was reddit.

 

[Disstevefan1]

An "internet fact". I think the source was reddit.

Oh from reddit.... Then it must be Fake News

 

[Comped]

Allegedly the family has retained the same attorney from the Icon death case...

 

[SplashJacket]

Allegedly the family has retained the same attorney from the Icon death case...

And they won’t get the same result