MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Can everyone please stop talking in circles? We get it. Every point about the value of TSI and the excitement for new things have been said over and over again. Nothing new is being discussed in this thread.

Well if you want “new info” for discussion…you got the wrong set of parks and the wrong company with its king…

Takes a few years to bother to replace a park bench these days

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Not entirely sure of that…to be honest

Hmm…. I mean I’m sure there are fans that would prefer cars vs. coco - we all have unique interests.

Box office alone - Coco is way more successful. It is about Mexico and their traditions - which are part of the actual American Frontier both past and present. It’s a natural fit to me.

Encanto would have been more of a stretch but timeline would have still worked well in the land.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think they clearly are phasing out Frontierland, but I actually sympathize with them not advertising that fact.

The other day I had a random news show on in the background, and they were musing about how a CEO of a big company today really has the job of an international politician in addition to being the leader of a company. I think that’s completely true. It’s already fallen into the background on these boards, but Disney was dealing with a lot of… stuff… extremely recently. Announcing that Frontierland is going bye bye would just be kindling to that fire. Even Josh recently tried to thread that needle veeeery carefully when talking about TBA. I don’t agree with everything Disney does but I sympathize that they’re in a very tricky position when it comes to… stuff.

Two things:

I agree with the politics aspect of it. That’s the 24/7 cycle combined with the infestation that is social media…things don’t get put to bed. Not gonna be better as the robots take over either…

So agree

Second: “Josh” is a disposable tool as all parks “heads” are. That’s what that job js for. Pay him no mind…will be gone in a few years. Maybe less?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hmm…. I mean I’m sure there are fans that would prefer cars vs. coco - we all have unique interests.

Box office alone - Coco is way more successful. It is about Mexico and their traditions - which are part of the actual American Frontier both past and present. It’s a natural fit to me.

Encanto would have been more of a stretch but timeline would have still worked well in the land.

Cars sells swag. That’s why it won’t die.

Times have changed some…as has the swag…but at the core, Disneys best indicator of “pull” that sustains them is that.

Nothing taken away from coco…it’s a great property too

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

And the solution to deal with this so called problem is to tear out the soul of the land that is RoA? Thats their great fix to deal with whatever problem they have decided suddenly now exists?

Yes? Get rid of the thing that is causing the imbalance.

I think most folks agree that MK needs more capacity relative to the demand that exists for the park. This is a difficult problem to tackle when there are attractions present that guests do not wish to participate in. It drives up the clogging of other attractions that they do. The riverboat and TSI has the ability to function as a people eater, but it wasn't and hadn't been for a long time. Not enough people were doing it to pose any assistance to the other, overcrowded areas of the park.

So what is the solution to that?

You get rid of the things that are not working in tandem with the rest of the park to help disperse crowds and replace it with something that will do that job.

People are looking at Cars completely on it's own, when the reality is that it's a package deal with Villains. These two additions are clearly meant to work together to take strain off of the rest of the park.

The days of being able to plop down a simple theatre show or small level attraction on it's own to help fan guests out is gone. Now, part of that is Disney's own doing and part of that is people's desires and approach to visiting places is different now than it used to be. Many people don't plan vacations according to relaxation and calm go with the flow energy these days, they plan with the intention of maximizing a return on their investment and how that translates to theme parks is placing a focus on big draws and ignoring the other stuff along the way.

This is something all theme park operators have seemed to notice. Even my home park Dollywood which used to open up small kids rides and flats as their big new offerings for a season have gone into a cycle of opening major "E tickets" every single year because that's simply what the guests who're planning visits to the park are demanding.

If guests were showing an interest in smaller scale offerings, diversions, and these people eaters like the river, then there's little doubt in my mind that Disney and other parks would be more keen to keep them in place because they would be fulfilling their purpose of helping to distribute people around. But that's not what their clientele is telling them.

You say they have decided suddenly that this problem exists, but I don't think that's the case. The problem has always been there. They're only just now responding to it.

 

[SamusAranX]

So use the land outside the park and leave what is actually in the park for guests to enjoy and add ambience, instead of just tearing out RoA for more concrete and fancy rock work?

Stitch has been empty for YEARS. The fact that that is still empty but they’re paving over RoA, an area that people probably didn’t actually complain about despite what people say in here, is actually embarrassing. Tomorrowland deserved a reimagining way before Frontierland needed one.

It actually does when it’s called Frontierland? But I guess since you say it doesn’t matter, that means you don’t have one. If they were going to gut one of the central parts of the park, they could have at least found an IP that actually belonged.

You might as well be discussing this with your cat at home, or a random light post on your street. The said poster must be Disney’s biggest stockholder with their contortions they twist into to defend anything Disney does, smart or not.

 

[SamusAranX]

Mobile ordering is one of the best ideas Disney had in a long time.

Credit where credit is due; loved this feature and made a Disney day a lot smoother

 

[LSLS]

Maybe trying to address capacity is part of the reasoning for this, but I think you are naive if you don't think adding LL revenue is the top priority. I keep going back to current average wait time/attendance is higher now than ever before. We are almost on par with 2019 wait times, despite there being what, like 3-4 million less guests? I still think the difference is all those extras were pulled. Parades at all the parks, streetmosphere, things to do outside of the attractions. If capacity was the top priority, those things could be added back in quickly to alleviate issues. It will be fascinating to see how the average wait times at rides change with just a nightime parade being added.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes? Get rid of the thing that is causing the imbalance.

I think most folks agree that MK needs more capacity relative to the demand that exists for the park. This is a difficult problem to tackle when there are attractions present that guests do not wish to participate in. It drives up the clogging of other attractions that they do. The riverboat and TSI has the ability to function as a people eater, but it wasn't and hadn't been for a long time. Not enough people were doing it to pose any assistance to the other, overcrowded areas of the park.

So what is the solution to that?

You get rid of the things that are not working in tandem with the rest of the park to help disperse crowds and replace it with something that will do that job.

People are looking at Cars completely on it's own, when the reality is that it's a package deal with Villains. These two additions are clearly meant to work together to take strain off of the rest of the park.

The days of being able to plop down a simple theatre show or small level attraction on it's own to help fan guests out is gone. Now, part of that is Disney's own doing and part of that is people's desires and approach to visiting places is different now than it used to be. Many people don't plan vacations according to relaxation and calm go with the flow energy these days, they plan with the intention of maximizing a return on their investment and how that translates to theme parks is placing a focus on big draws and ignoring the other stuff along the way.

This is something all theme park operators have seemed to notice. Even my home park Dollywood which used to open up small kids rides and flats as their big new offerings for a season have gone into a cycle of opening major "E tickets" every single year because that's simply what the guests who're planning visits to the park are demanding.

If guests were showing an interest in smaller scale offerings, diversions, and these people eaters like the river, then there's little doubt in my mind that Disney and other parks would be more keen to keep them in place because they would be fulfilling their purpose of helping to distribute people around. But that's not what their clientele is telling them.

You say they have decided suddenly that this problem exists, but I don't think that's the case. The problem has always been there. They're only just now responding to it.

Your arms are gonna be tired from carrying Those buckets for Bob…

Correcting “imbalance” would be to add capacity…and also balancing the theme/transition elements

This will not alleviate capacity issues (unless their attendance keeps dropping…which becomes more likely each day and then problem = solved) and thematically it’s another deviation…

So what “balance” is actually being restored?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You might as well be discussing this with your cat at home, or a random light post on your street. The said poster must be Disney’s biggest stockholder with their contortions they twist into to defend anything Disney does, smart or not.

They don’t call him “Stooperman…the man boy of Zeal” for nothing…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe trying to address capacity is part of the reasoning for this, but I think you are naive if you don't think adding LL revenue is the top priority. I keep going back to current average wait time/attendance is higher now than ever before. We are almost on par with 2019 wait times, despite there being what, like 3-4 million less guests? I still think the difference is all those extras were pulled. Parades at all the parks, streetmosphere, things to do outside of the attractions. If capacity was the top priority, those things could be added back in quickly to alleviate issues. It will be fascinating to see how the average wait times at rides change with just a nightime parade being added.

Thisey here

 

[Andrew C]

Yes? Get rid of the thing that is causing the imbalance.

I think most folks agree that MK needs more capacity relative to the demand that exists for the park. This is a difficult problem to tackle when there are attractions present that guests do not wish to participate in. It drives up the clogging of other attractions that they do. The riverboat and TSI has the ability to function as a people eater, but it wasn't and hadn't been for a long time. Not enough people were doing it to pose any assistance to the other, overcrowded areas of the park.

So what is the solution to that?

You get rid of the things that are not working in tandem with the rest of the park to help disperse crowds and replace it with something that will do that job.

People are looking at Cars completely on it's own, when the reality is that it's a package deal with Villains. These two additions are clearly meant to work together to take strain off of the rest of the park.

The days of being able to plop down a simple theatre show or small level attraction on it's own to help fan guests out is gone. Now, part of that is Disney's own doing and part of that is people's desires and approach to visiting places is different now than it used to be. Many people don't plan vacations according to relaxation and calm go with the flow energy these days, they plan with the intention of maximizing a return on their investment and how that translates to theme parks is placing a focus on big draws and ignoring the other stuff along the way.

This is something all theme park operators have seemed to notice. Even my home park Dollywood which used to open up small kids rides and flats as their big new offerings for a season have gone into a cycle of opening major "E tickets" every single year because that's simply what the guests who're planning visits to the park are demanding.

If guests were showing an interest in smaller scale offerings, diversions, and these people eaters like the river, then there's little doubt in my mind that Disney and other parks would be more keen to keep them in place because they would be fulfilling their purpose of helping to distribute people around. But that's not what their clientele is telling them.

You say they have decided suddenly that this problem exists, but I don't think that's the case. The problem has always been there. They're only just now responding to it.

At the very least, there was an option to maintain some/most of the river. Would that have cost Disney more? Maybe. But if you can't do something right, better not doing it at all.

 

[el_super]

Maybe trying to address capacity is part of the reasoning for this, but I think you are naive if you don't think adding LL revenue is the top priority.

Is that a bad thing? Really?

This group went from "Disney doesn't build enough attractions" to "Actually... new attractions are the worst thing they could ever do" so quickly.

 

[flynnibus]

The attractions were not underutilized. In fact they moved thousand+ per hour because of their capacity.

The problem and reason why they were closed was, they were not able to be monetized with LL and had to go.

How could they not be monetized if they were not under utilized?

The only reason something can’t have LL is people aren’t willing to pay for it.

 

[el_super]

What theme should they have gone with?

They could have just wrapped the whole thing around as Adventureland and it still would have fit.

Or they could have gone with another more generic name like Western Land or Wild Wilderness.

 

[Horizons '83]

Gaston’s a space for bout 12 people

Be our guest at first…but when it’s so overpriced that it sits rather empty now…not sure what good that does?

I remember when they first opened it was such a fantastic place and value to get lunch. Could get a sandwich and a drink for under $20 in a very cool setting. What is it now? $65 bucks per person?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I remember when they first opened it was such a fantastic place and value to get lunch. Could get a sandwich and a drink for under $20 in a very cool setting. What is it now? $65 bucks per person?

I remember the big lines out front for the lunch…for sure

Ghost town more often than not now.

Not everyone apparently can appreciate “magical” $400 bills…because they’re communists

 

[flynnibus]

Underutilized. Keep hearing that like it’s a bad thing.

You don’t need everything to be at full capacity. In fact, you shouldn’t even want that. That just makes for a bad experience.

A great argument for something doong its part and satisfying guests at scale. Let’s call it an attraction that regularly has healthy demand for itself and pulls good guest counts vs it’s costs. Let’s say it’s even ‘busy’ on busy days… it doesn’t have to be 100% used… but it guests show up in patterns to be expected…

But what would you call something that doesn’t pull guest counts? Or something that only gets a FRACTION of what it used to?

The problem here is people aren’t willing fighting over words and closing their eyes to the reality that guests use of the place was in the toilet.

It’s not a discussion of being full or not… the place was not popular for guests anymore.

RoA is the focal point of Frontierland. It’s the glue that keeps that land together. Aesthetically. Thematically. Sightlines. Etc. You can make the argument it does the same for liberty square. Replacing with a mini land that has an attraction and a long queue is just a horrible trade. It didn’t need to be this way.

So if disney just closed TSI and the riverboat… but kept the river would that have kept people happy? That meets the expectations right? Heck lets even say disney ran the boat but it wasn’t available for guests…. Frontierland and liberty sq are saved right??

Of course not.. let’s face it, people are using the setting as the element they argue is untouchable… but even if the setting were kept they’d still be upset. Which says the crux is more than just the setting…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is that a bad thing? Really?

This group went from "Disney doesn't build enough attractions" to "Actually... new attractions are the worst thing they could ever do" so quickly.

Nah…you missed the details as always

 

[flynnibus]

I'm not talking about the subject matter.
I am talking about Disney's choice to create an aesthetic of calm, and openness.

So you want to keep the RoA just as a backdrop?

Should closed shops not be replaced for the same reason?

Let’s keep the fry cart wagon… it’s about the asthetics…