Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[Gusey]

The minor complaint is that they really should have done it sufficiently for the outlay the first time. Now we have yet another distraction that holds them back from fixing their core resort.

So what is the priority? Addressing Epic Capacity, addressing IOAs entertainment gap and currently abandoned land, or fixing questionably the most discordant major park. Or… saving money and doing a few cheap fixes because they just spent a lot of money.

This is why empirically I’m not as high on new gates like a lot of the membership. The sudden hit feels good, but there’s a lot of long term damage and a long recovery done to the two original parks.

I do wonder if after the Rip Ride Rockit replacement, USF will take a pause, especially as it has just opened Minion Blast, DreamWorks and soon the new coaster, plus the new parade and night show. Apart from F&F and Fear Factor Stage being the major flaws of the park, there is enough there to keep it going whilst IoA gets Lost Continent sorted. I do think that whatever they're doing at Volcano Bay will impact how much construction they'll have at the other parks, especially if its more than just a refurb but an actual expansion

 

[MrPromey]

I certainly hope the lower waits for Monsters is simply due to better reliability and efficiency, and not because people are skipping Monsters... would be a big blunder if that land ends up not being very popular.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: I think this is the best attraction in the whole park.

If people are skipping it, they need to do something to promote this one more and drive people to it.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: I think this is the best attraction in the whole park.

If people are skipping it, they need to do something to promote this one more and drive people to it.

Right, but I also wonder, is the Monsters franchise too niche? Is it one of those cult brands, where it has very loyal fans, which are a subset of Universal Parks fans, but not the wider appeal needed to ensure the land is doing the numbers it needs?

Time shall tell.

 

[MrPromey]

I do wonder if after the Rip Ride Rockit replacement, USF will take a pause, especially as it has just opened Minion Blast, DreamWorks and soon the new coaster, plus the new parade and night show. Apart from F&F and Fear Factor Stage being the major flaws of the park, there is enough there to keep it going whilst IoA gets Lost Continent sorted. I do think that whatever they're doing at Volcano Bay will impact how much construction they'll have at the other parks, especially if its more than just a refurb but an actual expansion

I think if along with the Rip Rocket Ride replacement they're already doing, they're able to do a F&F replacement that's at least moderately well received, this park will have enough going for it to last until they're ready to address the Simpsons' area. The Fear Factor stage, they could toss any temporary show into if they needed something for capacity like they do for HHN (though I don't think capacity is the issue at this park) until they are ready to invest more, there.

To me, IOA is the one in real need, especially for lost continent and especially for more in the way of indoor attractions since currently, most of this park's biggest headliners can't run in bad weather.

 

[MrPromey]

Right, but I also wonder, is the Monsters franchise too niche? Is it one of those cult brands, where it has very loyal fans, which are a subset of Universal Parks fans, but not the wider appeal needed to ensure the land is doing the numbers it needs?

Time shall tell.

I don't even think of it as a "franchise" and the idea that something has to be part of a franchise feels like a really silly measure to me to begin with. Universal started it and Disney adopted it and frankly, I hate it because just like with countless movie sequels and reboots that seem to get worse with each chapter, it's just a regurgitation of what already exists... which may be why they may have to promote this land/attraction a little more since they've trained people to look for the IP tie-ins as some weird sign of quality assurance and I don't think most people Identify these monsters are part of a unified branded franchise the way all the other portals are.

I know they want people to but as a land that can stand in as an all-year HHN type of spot, I think there's enough based on the general theme/intent that this can and should work. I mean, this after-hours annual event draws in some of the biggest crowds either of the two pre-existing parks sees all year.

Not sure anyone's really clamoring to go on the "Classic Universal Monsters Ride™". I sure wasn't and my son hasn't even seen or heard of any of the original movies any of these are based on but the characters themselves are universal* enough as figures every kid sees on candy and in costumes during Halloween that there's already a familiarity there that doesn't require much explanation.

I think of it more like their more edgy Haunted Mansion and yeah, Disney's tried a few time to make that a movie franchise thing but I don't think the popularity has anything to do with those mostly failed attempts.

*Pun only semi-intended.

 

[rd805]

I wish, but the park is struglging with operating rides efficiently. The math doesn't make sense for Stardust to be a 120 min wait with a capacity of ~2,300 guests an hour, while Monsters Unchained with a capacity of ~2,100 guests is a 45 min wait.

Upon my visit last month, i noticed entire vehicles not being run through. Some with 2 empty rows, other trains more. Was definitely not great to see so many empty seats each run on the green side (i think it was green - whichever is supposed to be more aggressive & has the longer line).

 

[jannerUK]

Crowd Calendar...

Need some advice (even if a guesstimate). We are going in Mid to late August this year. Is there an expectation that the latter part of August (anything that starts with a 2...21st, 22nd...) is better?

Have we got an idea which days appear to be the best for Epic? Is weekends a cert to be out? mid week better?

 

[MrPromey]

Crowd Calendar...

Need some advice (even if a guesstimate). We are going in Mid to late August this year. Is there an expectation that the latter part of August (anything that starts with a 2...21st, 22nd...) is better?

Have we got an idea which days appear to be the best for Epic? Is weekends a cert to be out? mid week better?

Weekday is generally always a better option just because it's harder for locals and semi-locals, especially with school back in session at that point. You don't have to worry about late arrivals when people get off work or out of school either since there are no AP options right now.

With date-based tickets, weekends are also a tad more expensive, too so that's a plus.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know they want people to but as a land that can stand in as an all-year HHN type of spot, I think there's enough based on the general theme/intent that this can and should work.

I think you’ve identified the root issue. Halloween Horror Nights is a clearly established brand. Dark Universe is pulled from the classics of the horror genre. A lot of people don’t like being scared so they’re not going to risk going on the monster ride in the horror land from the people who do a massive, scary Halloween event.

 

[Andrew25]

The minor complaint is that they really should have done it sufficiently for the outlay the first time. Now we have yet another distraction that holds them back from fixing their core resort.

So what is the priority? Addressing Epic Capacity, addressing IOAs entertainment gap and currently abandoned land, or fixing questionably the most discordant major park. Or… saving money and doing a few cheap fixes because they just spent a lot of money.

This is why empirically I’m not as high on new gates like a lot of the membership. The sudden hit feels good, but there’s a lot of long term damage and a long recovery done to the two original parks.

I got heat for saying this years ago, but I honestly would have preferred IOA and USF to be built out.

USF would be a killer park with Ministry, SNW and Monsters. IOA could have gotten HTTYD.

My hope is that UOR sees the value in improving its existing parks and we see improvements sooner than later (starting with Rockit replacement)

I certainly hope the lower waits for Monsters is simply due to better reliability and efficiency, and not because people are skipping Monsters... would be a big blunder if that land ends up not being very popular.

Out of the major E-tickets, it's the most efficient and highest capacity. What we're seeing with Monsters will be standard wait-times. The other attractions like Ministry & Stardust are suffering and nowhere near their theoretical capacity.

 

[MrPromey]

I think you’ve identified the root issue. Halloween Horror Nights is a clearly established brand. Dark Universe is pulled from the classics of the horror genre. A lot of people don’t like being scared so they’re not going to risk going on the monster ride in the horror land from the people who do a massive, scary Halloween event.

And I think that's surmountable but it'll take effort to bill this attraction as an "adventure" ride rather than a horror one.

We've done this one close to a dozen times and in one of the pre-shows where Igore is demonstrating the vehicle, we witnessed one couple nope-out (when the model goes out of control and starts spinning) which which was a little funny but also kind of unfortunate. It confirms though that first-time riders are unsure of what they're in for and none of the queue leading up to it or the staff who when we were there, all stayed stoically in character really helps that... which is unfortunate because the mood and setting in the queue is like Forbidden Journey cool and it would suck to see them lighten that even a little.

Personally, I don't mind this one having low wait times if people never figure it out but it would be a real shame for the takeaways they'd probably have from it under-performing.

 

[flynnibus]

So what is the priority? Addressing Epic Capacity, addressing IOAs entertainment gap and currently abandoned land, or fixing questionably the most discordant major park. Or… saving money and doing a few cheap fixes because they just spent a lot of money.

I think the answer is easy...

Fixing IOA's under utilized stuff isn't going to move the needle for the resort, nor there a need for IOA to siphon demand away from the other resorts. It's weaknesses are potential, but not crisis.

USO is a mashup.. but they are already committed to the big RRR change and already did the quick kiddie changes. And they don't necessarily need a demand sponge right now.. between USO and IOA they can work together, and they don't need a headliner to draw to the resort as a whole.

Epic on the other hand is isolated and the one with much more glaring holes. It desperately needs some sponge activities to allow the rest of the park to breathe.. and it needs plan-B capacity for weather, etc.

The kinds of changes they need right now are 'get well' fixes that allow what they DO have to be more successful... Epic is the one most exposed, so it should be the one getting the fast tracked fixes IMO. Problem is, what to do that is as quick as possible, yet still be effective. There do not seem to be any obvious easy clones to drop in.. and they don't want to just go full carnival for quick fixes. Their standard is high now, making quick, cheap, and impacful a hard target to land.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Monsters Unchained is nearly perfect, but how can we urge Universal to, you know, finish it, so we don't look directly at curtains and the unthemed track floor at several points in the ride? Those moments are such a bummer in an otherwise extremely impressive attraction.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I think if along with the Rip Rocket Ride replacement they're already doing, they're able to do a F&F replacement that's at least moderately well received, this park will have enough going for it to last until they're ready to address the Simpsons' area. The Fear Factor stage, they could toss any temporary show into if they needed something for capacity like they do for HHN (though I don't think capacity is the issue at this park) until they are ready to invest more, there.

To me, IOA is the one in real need, especially for lost continent and especially for more in the way of indoor attractions since currently, most of this park's biggest headliners can't run in bad weather.

Personally I think USO is the more in need one as I rate IOA pretty highly especially with Hagrids + Velocicoaster.

USO is genuinely my least favorite theme park I've been to in Florida. It gets stomped on by all the Disney parks, Seaworld, and Busch Gardens and its not even close. If I'm there, I only care about like 3 rides there which is devastating for a "flagship park"

 

[BrianLo]

I do wonder if after the Rip Ride Rockit replacement, USF will take a pause, especially as it has just opened Minion Blast, DreamWorks and soon the new coaster, plus the new parade and night show. Apart from F&F and Fear Factor Stage being the major flaws of the park, there is enough there to keep it going whilst IoA gets Lost Continent sorted. I do think that whatever they're doing at Volcano Bay will impact how much construction they'll have at the other parks, especially if its more than just a refurb but an actual expansion

Probably that is exactly the line of thought. We could write essays on how USF is constantly bandaged until it is nothing more than a rotten corpse covered in dressings. USF is my Epcot, I'm deeply nostalgic for what it was and it is a shell of its former self.

Arguably now taking the crown to what they did over decades to Epcot, which has the unique benefit of never having quite ruined its central icon nor World Showcase.

DLP is the case example of how sometimes doing nothing at all can be oddly preferable to doing something just because. Or in Universal's case, because they want something to market annually without having a clear vision.

What of the litany of USF projects in the last 15 years has had any sort of shelf life that deserves to extend beyond a decade? Diagon Alley. Likewise the failure of the second phase of the Epcot overhaul, which sort of didn't amount to much. Though Cosmic Rewind and Rat were at least designed to last. Imperfections and all.

I get it though. Another coaster will be good enough and the thing will limp along with more quick fixes for another ten years. What I'm complaining about most is I really have wanted that park to get a serious DCA style rethink and is constantly shuffled lowered with half measures. I realize I'm shouting into the void.

 

[BrianLo]

There do not seem to be any obvious easy clones to drop in..

Maybe Waterworld on their furthest flung expansion plot. As off kilter as that would be, it strikes me as something they could do very quickly within 24 months.

 

[MrPromey]

Personally I think USO is the more in need one as I rate IOA pretty highly especially with Hagrids + Velocicoaster.

As long as it's not raining and there's no lightning in the area as is very common this time of year, sure.

And Velocicoaster is a no-go for a whole lot of people that aren't you (or me).

Also, IOA is the one that has almost a completely shuttered land you have to walk through on one side of the park compared to a single stage show plot that, like the theater in the Toon Lagoon area, doesn't seem abandoned so much as not showing anything at the moment.

Maybe Waterworld on their furthest flung expansion plot. As off kilter as that would be, it strikes me as something they could do very quickly within 24 months.

That would still be subject to the weather problem wouldn't it?

 

[BrianLo]

That would still be subject to the weather problem wouldn't it?

I suppose there is an irony in that. I don't know, but I guess a Thunderstorm would? It seemed like they had a similar show for Monsters originally, so that could be un-mothballed.

 

[MrPromey]

I suppose there is an irony in that. I don't know, but I guess a Thunderstorm would? It seemed like they had a similar show for Monsters originally, so that could be un-mothballed.

I was kind of thinking about that irony when writing that, too.

I've heard nothing but awesome things about that show and would love to see it one of the parks some day but I think whatever additions are prioritized for Epic (and IOA) in the near-term need to be indoors.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What if Islands of Adventure got another coaster?