WDW July 4 2025

lentesta

Premium Member
Hey looky there…steep discounts on rooms rolled out for October -December just today…

That’s EXACTLY what you do when “bookings are up” and people flood the fall and winter cause “nobody goes in the summer anymore…it’s too hot”

Just like HUGH G JOHNSON planned it 🤓

Disney offered similar discounts for the same dates in 2024, 2023, and 2022, at around this time of year (source: Mousesavers historical discounts).

I'm not intentionally arguing here, @Sirwalterraleigh.

One way to look at this is that Disney knows its rack rates are too high and everyone should expect a discount.

If you told me that there are enough offers to knock, say, 20% off entire classes of rooms all across property almost any day of the year, I'd believe that. So they know the public doesn't value their rooms at rack rates.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Disney offered similar discounts for the same dates in 2024, 2023, and 2022, at around this time of year (source: Mousesavers historical discounts).

I'm not intentionally arguing here, @Sirwalterraleigh.

One way to look at this is that Disney knows its rack rates are too high and everyone should expect a discount.

If you told me that there are enough offers to knock, say, 20% off entire classes of rooms all across property almost any day of the year, I'd believe that. So they know the public doesn't value their rooms at rack rates.
IMO that's not a good way to run a business.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Guess Donnie finally won and they eliminated that free loading riff raff?
I mean I’m still here…. Ironically I bought the pass because they were closing so much and I wanted multiple days to say goodbye to everything. But I’m still enjoying what’s left.

Priceline express deals at on property Disney Springs hotels are a steal.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Disney offered similar discounts for the same dates in 2024, 2023, and 2022, at around this time of year (source: Mousesavers historical discounts).

I'm not intentionally arguing here, @Sirwalterraleigh.

One way to look at this is that Disney knows its rack rates are too high and everyone should expect a discount.

If you told me that there are enough offers to knock, say, 20% off entire classes of rooms all across property almost any day of the year, I'd believe that. So they know the public doesn't value their rooms at rack rates.
Just to be clear…I am not doubting…nor ever am doubting…any of what you track.

It’s your science. There isn’t a better voice of it.
Data = intelligent
Opinion = silly (if it contradicts the evidence)

Everytime

My issue is taking your initial comment and spinning that into “see? It’s so crowd…everything is fine” from the kitchen table in like…Indiana…or something? This is one of those upside down environments where experience is dismissed as a “detriment” if it doesn’t tow a conclusion predefined.

The current state of affairs is always “appropriate discussion” within loose guardrails…that shouldn’t offend anyone good or bad. It’s not personal.

This thread maintaining a bit of balance…I’m still changing the “troll wounds” of the debate the other day about the corporate direction…which of course went off the rails and became a “one up of stupidity”…myself included.

There’s no loyalty test to how we discuss. There never was.

And the thing about rack rates “too high” is such an indictment with no prosecution

Rooms booked at a discount means the pricing strategy is off…empty rooms are a loss. The idea that you have to “obey the price” is just not good business. Because it’s about ego…a ridiculous bad management strategy that has put “no fault” over the long term.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
Rooms booked at a discount means the pricing strategy is off…empty rooms are a loss. The idea that you have to “obey the price” is just not good business. Because it’s about ego…a ridiculous bad management strategy that has put “no fault” over the long term.

This. This is one of those things I don't understand. If the rooms are always 20% or more off rack rate, why have a rack rate at all?

Like, most of the time I think to myself that whatever you can say about management, they understand spreadsheets really well. So there's got to be a reason for these almost constant discounts. Is it some sort of psychological "anchoring effect" thing they're doing, where people are more focused on the "20%" than you know, the $800/night cost of what is objectively not a 5-star hotel room?

Are "rack rates" just some weird consumer behavior trick?

Just to be clear…I am not doubting…nor ever am doubting…any of what you track.

It’s your science. There isn’t a better voice of it.
Data = intelligent
Opinion = silly (if it contradicts the evidence)

Everytime

Thank you. I'm glad. I always enjoy when you post skeptical takes on what this company does. It's a refreshing change from PR and ... influencer takes. ❤️
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
This. This is one of those things I don't understand. If the rooms are always 20% or more off rack rate, why have a rack rate at all?

Like, most of the time I think to myself that whatever you can say about management, they understand spreadsheets really well. So there's got to be a reason for these almost constant discounts. Is it some sort of psychological "anchoring effect" thing they're doing, where people are more focused on the "20%" than you know, the $800/night cost of what is objectively not a 5-star hotel room?

Are "rack rates" just some weird consumer behavior trick?



Thank you. I'm glad. I always enjoy when you post skeptical takes on what this company does. It's a refreshing change from PR and ... influencer takes. ❤️
My theory on why is they think guests are stupid. Those in charge don't understand theme parks. In their mind parks are for Carnies.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
This. This is one of those things I don't understand. If the rooms are always 20% or more off rack rate, why have a rack rate at all?

Like, most of the time I think to myself that whatever you can say about management, they understand spreadsheets really well. So there's got to be a reason for these almost constant discounts. Is it some sort of psychological "anchoring effect" thing they're doing, where people are more focused on the "20%" than you know, the $800/night cost of what is objectively not a 5-star hotel room?

Are "rack rates" just some weird consumer behavior trick?
Obviously I have no insider knowledge on Disney, but I believe a lot of it is psychological from personal experience.

For whatever reason, people react to discounts. Generally speaking, a person buying widget x with a 20% discount off of a list of $125 (so $100 total) is generally more happy with their purchase than a person buying widget x for a list of $100. They paid the same, our revenue is the same, our margin is the same, but the customer is happier.

Sure, there are some that will notice there is no difference, but you would be surprised how few do.

As for Disney, I can only guess but, I would be surprised if they are not creating the rack rate to get the revenue and margins they want with the discount. Any additional income from people buying at rack is just bonus money.

None of that is to imply they haven't outkicked their coverage on pricing in a lot of areas, just a commentary on discounts in general.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
This. This is one of those things I don't understand. If the rooms are always 20% or more off rack rate, why have a rack rate at all?

Like, most of the time I think to myself that whatever you can say about management, they understand spreadsheets really well. So there's got to be a reason for these almost constant discounts. Is it some sort of psychological "anchoring effect" thing they're doing, where people are more focused on the "20%" than you know, the $800/night cost of what is objectively not a 5-star hotel room?
Doesn’t the FTC prohibit perpetually advertising something “on sale” as fraudulent advertising? I think they call it fictitious pricing.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Are "rack rates" just some weird consumer behavior trick?
Discounted rooms are limited. Once they are gone, you have to pay rack rate. And people do.

Those who need the discount have learned to plan way in advance and jump on the discounts as soon as they're announced.

It's what I do three times a year. I had October and December dates at Pop locked down months ago.

Also, not to yell at you, Len, but to the crowd...

DISCOUNTS HAPPEN ALL YEAR ROUND.

Maybe except Christmas week. But all year round discount rooms are offered. Then when they sell out, it seems, to those who didn't grab the discounted rooms, that there aren't year round discounts. But there are. I know. I check all year round.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
When was the last time any park in WDW had a phased closing and has the frequency of phased closings decreased?

For few years, every long weekend and holiday was.a betting game on how early they would hit phased 1 and if they would hit phase 4. I my memory serves, it's been years since phase closing
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
When was the last time any park in WDW had a phased closing and has the frequency of phased closings decreased?

For few years, every long weekend and holiday was.a betting game on how early they would hit phased 1 and if they would hit phase 4. I my memory serves, it's been years since phase closing
Reservations, blackouts, and huge price hikes = no overwhelming crowds.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Doesn’t the FTC prohibit perpetually advertising something “on sale” as fraudulent advertising? I think they call it fictitious pricing.
Omg…

Do you actually think there is a federal “watchdog” who have any clue of this?

Now…with a clown show going that has steadily gotten worse for decades?

You know how the regs are written and enforced…by those that fall under them. It’s not a shield for a public anymore and hasn’t been for a long times. 1997 is a great historical pivot point…but there are many others.

It’s more of the Wild West in financial dealings now than in the actual Wild West.

We believe we are guarded in finance because we NEED to think that in order to participate in it. But we’re not shielded. Our greatest protection now is greed builds greed…aka they don’t WANT to bankrupt

But lie, cheat and steal short of that is totally on the table.

we gotta stop with this “they can’t lie” stuff. Not word for word…but twist, disguise and omit is 100% in the tool kit. Plausible deniability.

This goes to that “they said they’re gonna spend $60 billion!!!! 😡

…yeah…they just left the “how, why, when and escape clauses” out of it. Really gonna be a lot of disappointment. Especially without a complete management rollover. They’re like dogs…same tactics each day. No need for change
 
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Chi84

Premium Member
Omg…

Do you actually think there is a federal “watchdog” who have any clue of this?

Now…with a clown show going that has steadily gotten worse for decades?

You know how the regs are written and enforced…by those that fall under them. It’s not a shield for a public anymore and hasn’t been for a long times. 1997 is a great historical pivot point…but there are many others.

It’s more of the Wild West in financial dealings now than in the actual Wild West.

We believe we are guarded in finance because we NEED to think that in order to participate in it. But we’re not shielded. Our greatest protection now is greed builds greed…aka they don’t WANT to bankrupt

But lie, cheat and steal short of that is totally on the table.

we gotta stop with this “they can’t lie” stuff. Not word for word…but twist, disguise and omit is 100% in the tool kit. Plausible deniability.

This goes to that “they said they’re gonna spend $60 billion!!!! 😡

…yeah…they just left the “how, why, when and escape clauses” out of it. Really gonna be a lot of disappointment. Especially without a complete management rollover. They’re like dogs…same tactics each day. No need for change
I just asked a question because I was interested. I suspect consumer protection will only get worse.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I just asked a question because I was interested. I suspect consumer protection will only get worse.
Sorry…you got hit with a stray a little there

I just have a peeve about the belief amongst some fans that somehow Disney can’t “disappoint them” with a bait and switch about how they operate…

The examples of that are piling up. It’s not a “thing”
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I find that hard to believe with the latest round of discounts they announced this week.
That’s the disconnect

“Don’t believe all the signs…believe what some mouthpiece who never leaves Burbank says on a zoom link”

That’s enough for the passive mind…I suppose.

And that is NOT an indictment of Len at all…just that there is a disconnect which he points out
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
This. This is one of those things I don't understand. If the rooms are always 20% or more off rack rate, why have a rack rate at all?

Like, most of the time I think to myself that whatever you can say about management, they understand spreadsheets really well. So there's got to be a reason for these almost constant discounts. Is it some sort of psychological "anchoring effect" thing they're doing, where people are more focused on the "20%" than you know, the $800/night cost of what is objectively not a 5-star hotel room?

Are "rack rates" just some weird consumer behavior trick?
I don’t know

Some of it is hotel tactics and that isn’t necessarily a “Disney thing”

But I think it’s more primal.
To bust prices down or reverse mistakes like DME would be to show vulnerability and it won’t be allowed to happen.

It’s hubris. Textbook.

One thing they affects TWDC now is what happens in most if not all businesses.

Rich people have a few commonalities:
Ambition, Brains and luck.

They can be highly effective if it’s in balance.

But as they get older…they become a slave to ambition and deny that luck ever existed…which leads to where Disney is. Time is the other thing

20 years is WAY too long. They already learned that lesson and are less prepared to deal with ir now than they were in 2005. Cults of personality never last. This is the biggest issue.

They’re incapacitated to deal with mistakes because big boy no longer believes mistakes are possible. Look at the track record.

They have tossed some pretty laughable excuses for troubles (minor ones) In the overall portfolio. Which isn’t an embarrassment…all business have failures with some regularity.

It just makes it worse. But that doesn’t get inside the echo chamber.



Thank you. I'm glad. I always enjoy when you post skeptical takes on what this company does. It's a refreshing change from PR and ... influencer takes. ❤️
Mmm hmmm…I’m
Glad you said it..cause I’d get torched🔥

These SM “creators” are a bad thing for consumers. I suspect 99% of them are either locals who aren’t digging UCF or college program boomerangs who Weren’t digging Ohio anymore

And to believe clickbait as “official” makes for a really gullible group of customers
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
Do you actually think there is a federal “watchdog” who have any clue of this?

Now…with a clown show going that has steadily gotten worse for decades?

You know how the regs are written and enforced…by those that fall under them. It’s not a shield for a public anymore and hasn’t been for a long times. 1997 is a great historical pivot point…but there are many others.

It’s more of the Wild West in financial dealings now than in the actual Wild West.

We believe we are guarded in finance because we NEED to think that in order to participate in it. But we’re not shielded. Our greatest protection now is greed builds greed…aka they don’t WANT to bankrupt

But lie, cheat and steal short of that is totally on the table.

we gotta stop with this “they can’t lie” stuff. Not word for word…but twist, disguise and omit is 100% in the tool kit. Plausible deniability.
I want to add a little here and perhaps push back a bit on the reporting.

Traditionally, it is pretty rare for the filings themselves to be C-suite fan fiction and from conversations I have had over the last few months, many are looking to go above and beyond typical measures to make sure they are being accurate on those filings. People don't want to leave any potential opening in case they draw the attention of the current admin for any reason.

Now the calls, those allow for a lot more spin but there are still limits. Investors, analyst, market reporters, the public, etc. are all sitting there with the data in hand as we listen. More than one CEO has lost their position from trying to paint a rosy picture while everyone is looking at the disaster plainly spelled out on paper.
 

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