Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[Sir_Cliff]

I wonder what percentage of those were families with young children vs. the the modern "Disney adult" though.*

Based upon more alcohol-centric offerings in the parks and resorts and timeshares being intentionally built with much less themed flair than the older ones, I'd be inclined to think they see their current growth market as more the later.

That may very well be a viable market for them to cater to going forward to continue earnings and growth but it also feels like a segment of people they're going to have to work harder to retain than they've historically had to with the cross-generational family crowd.

I just don't see how a lot of people visiting WDW for the first time as an adult today would see a lot of the "classics" as worth keeping.

That's why I think they'll eventually end up like Universal having to re-invent and update their parks more frequently on an ongoing basis to avoid being called stale and dated the way Universal has accepted they have to do as a part of their own business model.

I'm sure they'll survive just fine. I just think the easy money they've come to rely on the Florida property as offering will be a thing of the past.

*For me, while I'd been noticing the slide for years, the tipping point in our frequent business was in 2019-2020, just before COVID. An hour wait on a non-holiday historically off-season weekend for People Mover was when I realized that as a parent, visiting the parks had become more stress than fun for me and that the truth was, it had been that way for some time.

I think it is very reasonable to assume that a lot of what are considered classics today will eventually be updated or replaced if the parks continue existing long enough. How and what is a little harder to predict. I don't know, for example, many people would have predicted the Tiki Room would outlive so many other attractions at DL and MK.

Whether they are getting fewer families with young kids than in the past is hard to say. From what we've been reading, Disney themselves are worried they are losing families with younger kids and the longterm impact that could have. That may be the logic behind this year's Cool Kid Summer promotion, for example. If the growth is coming from older visitors, though, that doesn't necessarily translate into less families with younger children visiting.

This generation(last decade) of kids is just as much Dreamworks and Illumination as they are Disney animated.
Nothing is forever.

One thing that I think can't be underestimated about Disney is the strength of that brand and how adept they are at keeping their properties alive. I imagine that a version of this thread in the aftermath of IOA's opening would similarly involve some talk about Disney losing kids to Dreamworks, Nickelodeon, etc. I don't think anyone would have predicted the nostalgia around films like Mulan, Hercules, and Lilo & Stitch at this point in time.

Beyond the hits like Frozen and Moana, who knows if we'll be similarly surprised by revivals of things like Luca and Turning Red in 20 years time from kids growing up with an on-demand Disney streaming service in their homes.

Disney is also good at turning that nostalgia around their brand into a desire to visit the parks. While I don't like the reliance on IP, part of me does wonder whether they are to some extent giving an audience that has grown up with an understanding of Disney as their big animated hits what they want. I'm sure a certain visitor struggles a lot more to understand Carousel of Progress being in Tomorrowland than they do Buzz Lightyear.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Why do you think the shirt is them saying RIP Disney as if the company is going to die. I don't think the people wearing that shirt think this. Nothing specifically made such a claim, even thinking that is what this shirt is saying is presumptious.

Sometimes a funny shirt is just that. Disney can be dead to them, without the family thinking they are going to close up shop.

I think that because I know what “RIP” means. Anyway, the idea that there haven’t been tons of people (including the usual suspects on this very board) claiming for the last couple years that Epic was going to finish off Disney is just plain silly. If you haven’t seen that, then you haven’t been paying much attention.

 

[celluloid]

I think that because I know what “RIP” means. Anyway, the idea that there haven’t been tons of people (including the usual suspects on this very board) claiming for the last couple years that Epic was going to finish off Disney is just plain silly. If you haven’t seen that, then you haven’t been paying much attention.

I think you have been paying a little too much attention and out for some sort of witch hunt.

For exmample "RIP my bank account" when something cool and expensive comes out, does not mean one is saying their bank account is done for forever nor literally kaputz. I think you are clever enough to understand hyperbole while still making points.

A family all wearing RIP Disney may just be having fun, but if it bothers you that much that you have to insinuate that someone is delusional...


I encourage one to reflect more than I would ask that family to.

But whatevs...

The denial that this is the most successful theme park venture for Central FL since Magic Kingdom(which of course had a brief quiet start) however, is not delusional.
Even Disney would love 18,000(if it makes you feel better to lowball it) to 22,000 people paying full price daily admission in the park.
Universal invested a lot in this, and is showing more than well.

Remember when we had people figuring this would really severely cannibalize Universal's other parks?

 

[JusticeDisney]

I think you have been paying a little too much attention and out for some sort of witch hunt.

For exmample "RIP my bank account" when something cool and expensive comes out, does not mean one is saying their bank account is done for forever.

A family all wearing RIP Disney may just be having fun, but if it bothers you that much that you have to insinuate that someone is delusional...


I encourage one to reflect more than I would ask that family to.

But whatevs...

The denial that this is the most successful theme park venture for Central FL since Magic Kingdom(which of course had a brief quiet start) however, is not delusional.
Even Disney would love 18,000(if it makes you feel better to lowball it) to 22,000 people paying full price daily admission in the park.
Universal invested a lot in this, and is showing more than well.

Remember when we had people figuring this would really severely cannibalize Universal's other parks?

Epic has been open for 8 days and you just called it the most successful park since MK. Guess your agenda has been clearly revealed!

Anyway, feel free to put your head right back in the sand now.

 

[celluloid]

Epic has been open for 8 days and you just called it the most successful park since MK. Guess your agenda has been clearly revealed!

Anyway, feel free to put your head right back in the sand now.

I said what it is showing and the most successful theme park venture. It is objectively true. it is the biggest investment and impact event since MK opened. It is fair to say. Successful in its opening even with rough spots of operation. Smoothest opening ever since we know how rough major theme parks typically open with.

It is also a different world. We know that June and chunks of July are about entirely sold out at more than 18,000 full admission paying people a day. No gratis entry as they went towards 22,000 daily. A park being maxed out of its daily attendance sold full admission is astonishing. Especially when people are crying less tourism and light summer.

There has not been a theme park ever able to pull in 18,000 or more full paying patrons a day this early in the run for most of the summer(that people are saying is a light one). It has an amazing showing so far. Anything could happen in the future.


dictionary.com would be your friend.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venture

Like you did with your disdain for the family t-shirt group you did not even meet nor even see, you skip and presume, now inferring me delusional.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I said it is showing and the biggest theme park venture. It is objectively true. it is the biggest investment and impact event since MK opened. It is fair to say. Successful in its opening even with rough spots of operation. Smoothest opening ever since we know how rough major theme parks typically open with.

It is also a different world. We know that June and chunks of July are about entirely sold out at more than 18,000 full admission paying people a day. No gratis entry as they went towards 22,000 daily. A park being maxed out of its daily attendance sold full admission is astonishing. Especially when people are crying less tourism and light summer.

There has not been a theme park ever able to pull in 18,000 or more full paying patrons a day this early in the run for most of the summer(that people are saying is a light one). It has an amazing showing so far. Anything could happen in the future.


dictionary.com would be your friend.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venture

Like you did with your disdain for the family t-shirt group you did not even meet nor even see, you skip and presume, now inferring me delusional.

Do you realize that we can actually go back and read your previous post? You literally said it was the most successful park. The way you are blatantly lying now is just plain weird.

Also weird is you calling it the smoothest opening ever. The rides have been down like crazy and the lines for refunds have been longer than some of the rides for the attractions themselves.

Whatever you are smoking, please pass it this way.

 

[Lil Copter Cap]

Remember when we had people figuring this would really severely cannibalize Universal's other parks?

Because this has shown to be the trend time and again when a new theme park has opened. We won't have any real idea until TEA/AECOM Theme Index Report is released for 2025.

I think you are underestimating the poor reception that this park is getting. I'm not saying that Epic Universe isn't a huge feat by design. But if Universal doesn't get this operational mess figured out soon, it could really hurt the brand. Just today, Universal has tasked someone to respond to the poor reviews on Google.

And, unfortunately, you can't claim that 18,000 people are paying full admission when we see, day after day, people lined up at guest services requesting refunds. Further, saying this park is "sold out" doesn't make sense as the capacity keeps changing with availability opening up sporadically.

My current belief is this park will be great for local passholders once they have access. There is more forgiveness in the operational hiccups because they can drop in at any time. Until the park is ironed out operationally, one cannot claim that this is a successful opening of a theme park in totality.

And one final thought: This park was rushed to open by the request of Woodbury. And this opening nonsense affirms that it should've been handed off to operations far sooner (and longer) than it was.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Because this has shown to be the trend time and again when a new theme park has opened. We won't have any real idea until TEA/AECOM Theme Index Report is released for 2025.

I think you are underestimating the poor reception that this park is getting. I'm not saying that Epic Universe isn't a huge feat by design. But if Universal doesn't get this operational mess figured out soon, it could really hurt the brand. Just today, Universal has tasked someone to respond to the poor reviews on Google.

And, unfortunately, you can't claim that 18,000 people are paying full admission when we see, day after day, people lined up at guest services requesting refunds. Further, saying this park is "sold out" doesn't make sense as the capacity keeps changing with availability opening up sporadically.

My current belief is this park will be great for local passholders once they have access. There is more forgiveness in the operational hiccups because they can drop in at any time. Until the park is ironed out operationally, one cannot claim that this is a successful opening of a theme park in totality.

And one final thought: This park was rushed to open by the request of Woodbury. And this opening nonsense affirms that it should've been handed off to operations far sooner (and longer) than it was.

Mic drop.

 

[celluloid]

Because this has shown to be the trend time and again when a new theme park has opened. We won't have any real idea until TEA/AECOM Theme Index Report is released for 2025.

I think you are underestimating the poor reception that this park is getting. I'm not saying that Epic Universe isn't a huge feat by design. But if Universal doesn't get this operational mess figured out soon, it could really hurt the brand. Just today, Universal has tasked someone to respond to the poor reviews on Google.

And, unfortunately, you can't claim that 18,000 people are paying full admission when we see, day after day, people lined up at guest services requesting refunds. Further, saying this park is "sold out" doesn't make sense as the capacity keeps changing with availability opening up sporadically.

I don't think you understand...

A lot. Much presuming in your post.

Capacity has been grown towards 22,000. The allotment of tickets that open up(you will see if you look a few days once in a while will open) is when they have a threshold of hotel packages and ticket dates rotated around. This allows for more day guests. All of them full paying. Parks do this all the time. There are large swaths of people booking and rotating dates of their EPIC Day. Disney does this too with things booked, you just don't notice it as much because this thing is brand new and nearly booked out and completely booked out for many of its days.
The capacity of the park at this point has not drastically changed. This was all planned out. The only thing that changed was operationally VQ was ditched due to Potter improving and negative feedback of being too much of a pinchpoint for the consumer.
The rest of your post, Nothing about the park was rushed more than any other theme park ever done. Woodbury is an exec now, and he understands creative and operations arguably better than anyone in that field of the company. Hence why he was promoted perfectly in timing for this.


The better this park does, the more extreme the takes and analysis get that there must be a reach for extreme failure(s).

 

[MrPromey]

Safety over show. The robocoaster rides are more like the PeopleMover than an omnimover. The vehicles are all independent and not chained together. They bunch together for load and unload but space out for the actual ride. There is also no slow down or stopping for disability access as the rides have a separate load area for those needing additional time and vehicles just slip in and out of the sequence. So stopping is more stopping than a delay where you want to maintain some sense of show.

That's cool about the way they can enter and exit the track. I wasn't aware of that. Having done Forbidden Journey, they didn't offer that to someone in our party with a rollator on one visit so I just assumed it was stop or slow down the platform as the only options.

In terms of stopping, I didn't mean the ride stopping but the scenes with nothing to fill the space, even if it was just some sort of basic loop with the screens and eye blinking on the characters or something but it would make sense they shouldn't have to worry about that if there is no reason over the course of a normal day for that to be a typical thing.

 

[celluloid]

That's cool about the way they can enter and exit the track. I wasn't aware of that.

In terms of stopping, I didn't mean the ride stopping but the scenes with nothing to fill the space, even if it was just some sort of basic loop with the screens and eye blinking on the characters or something but it would make sense they shouldn't have to worry about that if there is no reason over the course of a normal day for that to be a typical thing.

Forbidden Journey uses the static accessible loading and unloading and it is really neat. They even themed the area and it goes right in and out of sequence.

Disney actually filed a patent for a version of this for Omnimovers when Mermaid was in design but ended up sticking with the crawl speed or stop entire omni mover method.

 

[TalkingHead]

This allows for more day guests. All of them full paying.

..until their day admission gets comped due to excessive down times. The park is missing at least one more reliable people eater that can draw crowds.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Because this has shown to be the trend time and again when a new theme park has opened. We won't have any real idea until TEA/AECOM Theme Index Report is released for 2025.

The park won’t have a full year of operation in 2025. The 2026 report will be a more wholistic look.

And one final thought: This park was rushed to open by the request of Woodbury. And this opening nonsense affirms that it should've been handed off to operations far sooner (and longer) than it was.

The park wasn’t really rushed. The one year pause resulted in an 18 month delay to the opening. The bigger organizational problem is that there has been a ton of churn and brain drain.

 

[celluloid]

..until their day admission gets comped due to excessive down times. The park is missing at least one more reliable people eater that can draw crowds.

There is no "until" about it. Learn of perceived value and refund differences.

Uni did not somehow lose millions because of rough ops days. All parks have these, and for early on, these are infrequent so far.

 

[celluloid]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/mutuallyexclusive.asp#:~:text=Not mutually exclusive means that,the other from being possible.

• Not mutually exclusive means that two instances or outcomes can occur simultaneously, and one outcome does not limit the other from being possible.

The park is the most successful venture in terms of opening a major new theme park, running smoothly relatively to any major theme park that has opened in a long time. Ops can have negative situations, and this can still be true because every major theme park has always had rough moments. This one has had the least operating issues compared to other new ventures of its scale and the largest soft opening/operating time of any.




EPIC is not perfect, and no park is or goes towards it until it finds it matures out a bit. But objectively, there are truths to its scale and showing so far.

 

[Andrew C]

Oh, we all understand you just perfectly. You spout nonsense and then when called on it you just blatantly lie and say that you never said it, as if we can’t just go back and read what you previously said.

Class dismissed.

You’re always in attack mode, eh?

 

[celluloid]

You’re always in attack mode, eh?

Its a diversion for lack of substance and the user's posts are constantly deleted. I won't feed the troll anymore.

 

[JusticeDisney]

You’re always in attack mode, eh?

Let’s see here. We have a park which has been opened for a mere 8 days and has had tons of down rides and other operational issues, along with lengthy lines of people demanding refunds. And in the face of that we have a poster on this board who proclaims that this park opening has been the smoothest and most successful in history. When called out on that ridiculous assertion, this very same poster just starts lying and claiming that he never said what he actually said. Yet, according to you, I’m in attack mode for pointing all of that out? Ok, gotcha. Perhaps you might want to consult that dictionary link that this other poster keeps providing in order to look up the definition of “attack mode.”

 

[JusticeDisney]

It’s a diversion for lack of substance and the user's posts are constantly deleted. I won't feed the troll anymore.

Have you forgotten to mention how many of your posts in this very thread have been deleted? Ooooooops, must have just slipped your mind, right? Oh well, just keep on trolling this board by trying to sell everyone on the idea that Epic’s opening has been the smoothest in history. Yes, that’s right, you actually said that.

 

[celluloid]

Have you forgotten to mention how many of your posts in this very thread have been deleted? Ooooooops, must have just slipped your mind, right? Oh well, just keep on trolling this board by trying to sell everyone on the idea that Epic’s opening has been the smoothest in history. Yes, that’s right, you actually said that.

Smoothest and currently the most successful venture and opening showing since Magic Kingdom. we have the information and data. Objectively. The biggest problem Epic has is too many people want to go for what it can handle. That does not equate to a failure, nor does it and rough day and moments on others negate it relative to running smoothly to how major theme park openings always go. There is no lie there.

My two posts were deleted this morning when they quoted yours. And mine that you are now attacking ever since, was the one that was left. Then you restarted the same attack. Since you did see your attacks deleted and posted the same post again, you know they were deemed wrong and are maliciously continuing.

Please stop or I will have to report it. This is nonsense. This user is constantly malicious to multiple posters.


Disengaging now. Feel free to continue to attack, or not.