Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[celluloid]

But like, going beyond that, each of the existing Orlando parks accomplishes this already. There are no parts of MK, Epcot, DHS, DAK where you can see outside of the park from ground level. The one exception I can think of is seeing the Contemporary from within MK. USF really only during HHN, and IOA basically nothing except for the ability to see into USF. Even SeaWorld, you mostly can't see out of the park from the main walkways.

Beware of extreme claims

EPCOT you can definitely see Swan and Dolphin too.
SWO you ceetainly see the parking lot, the off property hotel across from it and front gate plaza from a lot of the walkway that is on that side of their lagoon.

It's not some egregious difference, it is just Disney property in FL was first, had Walt and bought up a ton of surrounding land.
This is why if the conversation includes Disneyland, which has a lot more of these (parking garage sights from Rivers of America, Tower of Terror from Matterhorn and Subs and Harbor Blvd through spots in Tomorrowland etc.)
It is more akin to Uni's situation of not building in the 70s/owning 22 plus square miles of property and over 40 years of regulation. It is not a secret.

This is why there has to be caveats with WDW. You are seeing contemporary and Swan and Dolphin because they own that property those buildings are on.

One of the major PR points stated Walt nabbed up the cheaper land in FL.

 

[mkt]

Here's pics from when we went for TM previews after photos were allowed

 

[SplashJacket]

My thoughts after experiencing.

I’ll attempt brevity, because I could blabber endlessly on my thoughts and emotions after following this project for nearly a decade.

First:

Wow, the park is something special. Very very different from anything Disney or Universal has ever put out. It feels like something very different — almost like a Phantasialand or Europa Park, but I feel that’s less because they’re similar, and more because it feels like a very different product to UO and IOA.

Highlights:

Food:

They killed it. The food is spectacular. The salmon at mead hall is not theme park salmon, it’s genuinely fantastic.

Animation:

Every land is absolutely filled with life and movement. From when you step in to wander by any land. Nintendo has a billion animated trinkets and creatures. Berk has dragons, sheep, and rides. Monsters has rides, fog, and the burning blade. Potter has all the wand interactives. The sheer quality and quantity of animatronics at Monsters is unfathomable. Rise has bridge Kylo and dying Kylo. Monsters has 25 of those it’s mind blowing.

Entertainment:

Untrainable is the best theme park show. This far surpasses Bourne for me (my previous favorite). Bourne is obviously a very different show, but nothing at Disney can remotely compare. Nemo is the closest comp and it blows it out of the water. Watching this show made me think Disney might actually have a problem. The HTTYD streetmosphere was incredible. No drones, but the baby toothless Boston dynamics animatronic drew a huge crowd and delight. But the animatronic interactive toothless meet and greet really stole the show. Absolutely redefines what a meet and greet can and should feel like. Incredible emotion and realism by toothless and a great job by all the actors involved.

More misc. thoughts

CP is incredible and beautiful, though it currently lacks a big reason to spend time in. With fireworks, maybe Epcot-style festival booths in the future, etc. it might give the space more justification, but we didn’t spend much time in it — though we were rushing between rides while waits are low.

For Mario Kart. I rode it 3 times in Hollywood and now once in Epic. I actually loved it in Hollywood. First ride I was pretty overstimulated, but second and third I fell in love. Only got one ride at Epic, but we really leaned into trying to “win.” Do NOT try to win. Mostly ignore the game. It’s not a ringing endorsement of the ride to ignore it’s main feature, but I’d argue the sets and scenes themselves are the main feature and getting lost in a confusing, overstimulating game just distracts from the really cool ride there. Keep the AR on, maybe use some interaction, but don’t focus on trying to do well or figure it out, just enjoy the surrounding.

Fyre drill is genuinely the most fun I’ve ever had on any theme park attraction. Disney absolutely has to bring this ride system to one of their parks. Hollywood would work perfect. I was waterboarding myself in laughter I could hardly breath. Absolutely do not skip. It’s not a flashy attraction, but it’s so fun. (tip: don’t actually shoot the targets, just start a war by shooting the other vehicles and watch the chaos).

Donkey Kong Minecart Madness is actually just not good. One of the roughest coasters I’ve ever ridden and it’s brand new. This will not be a guest satisfaction driver. High waits stemming from flashy instagramability and a low capacity means a lot of people will be disappointed. Show scenes are pretty good, though. I do enjoy the evil of monsters next to a banana. Makes me feel despicable

CotW was better than I thought it would be. And Stardust is an unbelievable pair of coasters. Mack has done it again.

Paris is unbelievable. I’ve never seen a more authentic setting than that entry street. It’s not reminiscent of Paris or an evocation of Paris. It is Paris. Unbelievable job, especially with that Cafe.

Overall, lovely park that isn’t necessarily the best park in the world, but it has strong bones and a great foundation to build off. It’s very different in the best way from the existing portfolio of Disney and Universal that pushes the industry forward in a positive direction.

Following up to address some of the repeat commentary I’ve seen since I mainly focused on the positive.

No, Epic is not perfect, and this is a focus on everything negative, just to give a balanced scope on what to expect.

Helios looks fantastic to me, in person. Comparisons to Riviera are hyperbolic — Helios pulls off its design.

That said, the view from Helios within Monsters was surprising, though, I’d suspect, in time, the trees will fill in and this will become a non-issue.

Untrainables show building does not look better in person. It is surprisingly bad.

Donkey Kong is really rough — inexcusably so for a new coaster. The on-ride sight lines are also poor, though once surrounding areas get developed / as trees grow, I expect this to be diminished.

Dragon coaster also has severe sightline issues that trees over time hopefully remedy.

MK is a great ride, but the game distracts and detracts from that great ride, but we already knew that.

Monsters, while super impressive, is definitely overstimulating and hard-to-follow the first ride-through. I would not be surprised to hear more negativity once the GP gets on the attraction. Though it is a fantastic attraction.

CotW is fine, but its current state was not the design intent, so not to excuse it, but if this is the biggest thing to not work out at the park, that’s a victory.

Overall though, and distinctly, this is not a “BUT DISNEY” excuse, but there are so many incredible experiences at this park that your day is not marred by these complaints. Any project at this scale would have issues.

Look at Galaxy’s Edge. One ride is mediocre when it was shooting for exceptional, the land often feels dead due to a lack of kinetics, and you can see the muppets show building next to Rise. That’s not to say “nothing is perfect so don’t strive for perfect” but it’s to quantify the limits of the negativity. The lands, rides, and experience is exceptional. You should experience GE, and would likely love it. It’ll be the same with this park.

Untrainables is THE best theme park show in the world, IMHO, and it’s exactly what Universal needs. Bourne is amazing, but it’s amazing to a demographic they already excel in. Untrainables delivers for families, as do other parts of this incredible park.

It’s hard to have a nuanced discussion about anything, because it’s easy to latch onto specific angles and internalize those.

Epic is awesome, it’s a spectacular park that we’ll love, talk about, and closely follow as it grows and matures.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The criticisms for Berk are mostly related to what's not there, eg lack of berm and more to hide sightlines

What is there has been widely praised and when it comes to the social media reaction online, it's mostly to do with Berk and its meet and greets.

It looks to indeed be the sleeper hit of the park.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Beware of extreme claims

EPCOT you can definitely see Swan and Dolphin too.
SWO you ceetainly see the parking lot, the off property hotel across from it and front gate plaza from a lot of the walkway that is on that side of their lagoon.

It's not some egregious difference, it is just Disney property in FL was first, had Walt and bought up a ton of surrounding land.
This is why if the conversation includes Disneyland, which has a lot more of these (parking garage sights from Rivers of America, Tower of Terror from Matterhorn and Subs and Harbor Blvd through spots in Tomorrowland etc.)
It is more akin to Uni's situation of not building in the 70s/owning 22 plus square miles of property and over 40 years of regulation. It is not a secret.

This is why there has to be caveats with WDW. You are seeing contemporary and Swan and Dolphin because they own that property those buildings are on.

One of the major PR points stated Walt nabbed up the cheaper land in FL.

I knew I should have mentally walked the Disney parks to mention every possible instance because someone would get pedantic. And yes, Disney has the space to separate the parks enough from the actual outside world and has the benefit of their parks being surrounded by actual untouched wilderness.

But.

There is a very big difference between being able to see something because it is close by and tall and the sightline issues Epic has. For instance, you can see the Orlando Eye or whatever it's called now from Celestial Park, but I won't fault that because it's pretty impossible to block it. However, me being able to see Kirkman road from ground level in the park? Or the water treatment plant? That should not happen, especially when they were working with a blank slate.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Placement: yep, you’re right!
Ride type: now I’m baffled as to why you're baffled

The ride experience doesn't translate in any way to something that thematically connects it to the land or werewolves.

 

[celluloid]

I knew I should have mentally walked the Disney parks to mention every possible instance because someone would get pedantic. And yes, Disney has the space to separate the parks enough from the actual outside world and has the benefit of their parks being surrounded by actual untouched wilderness.

But.

There is a very big difference between being able to see something because it is close by and tall and the sightline issues Epic has. For instance, you can see the Orlando Eye or whatever it's called now from Celestial Park, but I won't fault that because it's pretty impossible to block it. However, me being able to see Kirkman road from ground level in the park? Or the water treatment plant? That should not happen, especially when they were working with a blank slate.

We are just going by your examples because they were...your examples.

EPCOT and later built Swan and Dolphin were certainly blank slates.

 

[Tom Morrow]

We are just gojng by your examples because they were...your examples.

EPCOT and later built Swan and Dolphin were certainly blank slates.

Well that proves my point even more - the Swan and Dolphin being seen built after Epcot shows that they did not design the park itself to have built in bad sightlines.

Also, I mean... oh no, I can see a sleek hotel vs. hmm, I can see a sewage treatment plant. There's a world of difference here.

 

[celluloid]

Well that proves my point even more - the Swan and Dolphin being seen built after Epcot shows that they did not design the park itself to have built in bad sightlines.

Also, I mean... oh no, I can see a sleek hotel vs. hmm, I can see a sewage treatment plant. There's a world of difference here.

Switching up the argument. You used hotels as qualifiers such as contemporary from MK(whuch goes against your argument as theywere designed at the same time)
Eisner and many others could have ensured EPCOT did not have that leering over for decades.

Universal did not build those places nor Kirkman Road.
And while it is not the greatest thing to see, in the long run, the millions are finite and will be better spend on the expansion plots and future projects where you will not see the remnants of that plant anymore.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What’s funny about the supposed claim that Universal just has a different philosophy regarding sightlines is the way the south campus being the sight of new park first became public news. Universal set up and financed a bogus neighborhood organization to oppose the polercoaster complex because they didn’t want it visible from Epic Universe. The county government learned the group was just a front for Universal and outed their plans for a new park.

 

[celluloid]

What’s funny about the supposed claim that Universal just has a different philosophy regarding sightlines is the way the south campus being the sight of new park first became public news. Universal set up and financed a bogus neighborhood organization to oppose the polercoaster complex because they didn’t want it visible from Epic Universe. The county government learned the group was just a front for Universal and outed their plans for a new park.

There is not as much difference in philosophy as some think. Some just forgive seeing things from Disneyland and WDW's outside park structures while ripping a part a new park that typically has more of thus.

You can fix a lot of these critiques easily in the next five years vs what you could from that tower hotel and coaster on intl drive that was to be built(and since it was from the CEO of Mango's...it would not have gone well anyway. )

 

[Tom Morrow]

Switching up the argument. You used hotels as qualifiers such as contemporary from MK(whuch goes against your argument as theywere designed at the same time)
Eisner and many others could have ensured EPCOT did not have that leering over for decades.

Universal did not build those places nor Kirkman Road.
And while it is not the greatest thing to see, in the long run, the millions are finite and will be better spend on the expansion plots and future projects where you will not see the remnants of that plant anymore.

On the scale of difficulty and cost for a project this size, doing things like creating a raised tree berm and adding some thematic view blocking walls and structures is literally pocket change. "It will look good in two decades when the park's expansion pads are filled in" is a garbage excuse, I'm sorry.

We're asking for Universal to put in like 5-10% more effort for a great product instead of just a good one and you're treating it as if we're complaining that there weren't 5 more E-tickets opening with the park.

 

[celluloid]

On the scale of difficulty and cost for a project this size, doing things like creating a raised tree berm and adding some thematic view blocking walls and structures is literally pocket change. "It will look good in two decades when the park's expansion pads are filled in" is a garbage excuse, I'm sorry.

We're asking for Universal to put in like 5-10% more effort for a great product instead of just a good one and you're treating it as if we're complaining that there weren't 5 more E-tickets opening with the park.

You are arbitrarily saying two decades to be negative nancy. That is where history shows progress differently. Uni does use their expansion pads fast and there are already plams underway for EPIC.

It's fun to say planting trees and building berms is just pocket change, but that is not how it works. That is the laugh because it's not pencil and paper show writing or Rollercoaster Tycoon where a berm or budget a lone of tall trees can get approved for a few years and then site prep work begins.

More E tickets and adjustments
are coming faster than that.

You are just young/forget/aren't familiar with what a new park built tend to look like.

 

[Tom Morrow]

You are arbitrarily saying two decades. That is where history shows progress differently. Uni does use their expansion pads fast and thi as are already u dsrway for EPIC.

Realistically it's at least a decade though.

It's fun to say planting trees and building berms is just pocket change, bht that is not how it works.

Planting trees and putting up view blocking walls is a lot cheaper than constructing buildings to block the views.

You are just young/forget/aren't familiar with what a new park built tend to look like.

I wish I was young! But I am old enough to have experienced DAK and IOA in their opening year. I can't recall DAK ever having had unsightly views, and IOA I just chocked it up to Universal not being in the business of total immersion back then. But today, they are, and total immersion was the promise of Epic and its portal concept.

 

[Bill Cipher]

I was fortunate enough to attend a preview on Friday the 11th and have since taken the time to gather my thoughts! I won't get too deep into attraction spoilers, just general impressions, so if you'd like to hear my musings then read on.

This park is indeed a triumph. The world class attractions and placemaking are incredibly impressive for an opening day lineup. This park has more to do and see than Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom, and arguably more than Sea World and Universal Studios Florida, and those other parks have been operating for decades. Aside from just attractions though, you could spend hours in each of the five lands just soaking in details, smaller interactives, and walkaround performers. The streetmosphere in Epic is extraordinary, particularly in Berk and Darkmoor. None of these lands are dead, they are constantly inviting you to engage and peel back layers of storytelling with a variety of interesting tactics that never get old.

Ygor carries a large, mysterious bag around Darkmoor and the more curious guest might ask what he has in the bag. He'll give a conspicuously dismissive response, prompting you to follow him further as he travels to various graves, carts, and crates throughout the land. He'll climb off of the guest pathways, into flowerbeds, and under carts to pull out props of severed body parts, then improv a story as to why he needs these specific parts. It keeps peeling back layers about what's going on in the manor, Ygor's relationship with Victoria, Darkmoor's history, and it's also all incredibly funny. This is what themed entertainment is all about. It pushes the medium to the limit and defines why a theme park experience is different from film, television, or theatre, and Epic is absolutely teeming with this level of care. This is just one example of many from my single preview day.

The immense scale of the park simply can't be captured on photos or videos and hits the best in person. I was initially opposed to the Helios Grand being the backdrop of the park, but seeing it at eye level convinced me. Everyone comparing this to the Riviera is off base, this thing looks great from just about anywhere in the park. I could nitpick and say I wish it felt less flat, but ultimately it does achieve the look of being a form of palace. The only negative visual sightlines I think are particularly pertinent are the Untrainable building and Curse of the Werewolf's netting, but even those aren't as egregious as other sightline issues in the other Orlando parks (looking at you, Forbidden Journey and Cosmic Rewind).

While I'm on negatives, Curse of the Werewolf is my least favorite attraction in the park and the only one I believe has more to dislike than like. The coaster itself was much more physically fun than I thought it would be, but the swing launch "scene" does not land well, and the ending "scene" felt incredibly cheap and tacky (and that's coming from a lowkey Dinorama enjoyer lol). If I had to put money on it, this is going to be the first Epic opening day attraction to be replaced in the future. Funny since it's right next door to my favorite attraction in the park.

Monsters Unchained is going down in theme park history. This is one of those generational rides that feels so full of life, creativity, and love. I don't want to give away all of its tricks, so do your best to go in unspoiled. Even when I had a number of effects not working properly it was still mind blowing.

I can not wait to go back! If you are coming from out of town for Disney, save a day for Epic; you won't regret it. My final tip: stay after the sun sets if hours allow! This park is absolutely gorgeous at night, everything looks stunning. I would love to chat with others who have been lucky enough to visit as well, and would love to answer questions for those on the fence!

 

[celluloid]

Realistically it's at least a decade though.

Planting trees and putting up view blocking walls is a lot cheaper than constructing buildings to block the views.



I wish I was young! But I am old enough to have experienced DAK and IOA in their opening year. I can't recall DAK ever having had unsightly views, and IOA I just chocked it up to Universal not being in the business of total immersion back then. But today, they are, and total immersion was the promise of Epic and its portal concept.

DAK had the blessing of the 22 square miles we talked about and still treated us with unfinished ventures. It was amazing where amazing but still had weak points including obvjous ones. Camp Minnie Mickey anyone?
Not dissing DAK as it is my favorite theme park for rich theming, but it had an opening era too.
Yep, and a whopper Jr meal is cheaper than a steak dinner, but if your budget was 40 dollars total, you can't have both as easily. Frustrating but that is how budgeting works.

No. Not ten years. Try five or six.

 

[dmc493]

Social media saying Battle at the Ministry is now open for previews starting today and is utilizing Virtual Line

 

[Agent H]

DAK had the blessing of the 22 square miles we talked about and still treated us with unfinished ventures. It was amazing g where amazing but still had weak points including obvjous. Camp Minnie Mickeyobvious.
Yep, and a whopper Jr meal is cheaper than a 30oz steak dinner, but if your budget was 40 dollars total, you can't have both as easily. Frustrating bht that is how budgeting works.

No. Not ten years. Try five or six.

I don’t agree with all of the criticisms @Tom Morrow has been talking about but you realize there’s a rescission coming right?

 

[celluloid]

I don’t agree with all of the criticisms @Tom Morrow has been talking about but you realize there’s a rescission coming right?

Well we can discuss crystal ball if we want to try and peg exactly when and specifically how. But that is a separate discussion.

 

[Agent H]

Well we can discuss crystal ball if we want to try and peg exactly when and specifically how. But that is a separate discussion.

I sincerely doubt epic universe will have any major expansions in five years. Universal will probably want to focus more on things like adding Pokemon to universal studios. I do think the rumored great hall restaurant will be built because it directly generates revenue.