News New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Moth]

By what you’re describing, it doesn’t sound like just DAS was used on the trip.

If the wait time for FoP was 60 minutes, it would be impossible with DAS in 2022 to ride it 5 times in 1.5 hours. I’m guessing he was also adding in paid options to enable the back to back. I suspect there was also more than 1.5 hours in the time it took for that many rerides.

Also, your family would not have been able to ride splash on your DAS without you. The DAS recipient MUST ride as well. This was also most likely a paid option or other method of accessing the ride.

Finally, the only way a ride is not on DAS is if it has a virtual queue. I am not familiar enough with the history of rise to know if it had one at the time, but if it didn’t then again I suspect another method of LL access other than das was being used and is what he was referencing that it wasn’t available (or even possible there was a different reason why your family decided not to ride but might not have communicated)

Nono, for Rise it was under VQ by then. For that it was LL, I distinctly remember that. It was so nice we did it twice even. Family ate that ride up. It was just interesting how it wasn't able to be used for it back then.


For FoP, looking at old chat messages of me messaging my friend, it did seem like I compressed the time frame. Three hours for that many rides does make more sense than 1.5 hours. I do remember that the first ride on it was a paid LL since they wanted to guarantee one ride on it and River Journey for the day.


For Splash, at least for that trip prior to the one before (I did do it for my 2022 trip since I knew it was going away soon), I think I tapped out like just before boarding. That was distinctly DAS, I remember going up and scanning first and my family following me and being amazed by the queue and then just getting cold feet and tapping out a minute or two before boarding.

So this is mostly just my bad memory of trips from 2019 and 2022 coming into play here and getting mixed with each other, haha.

 

[Disstevefan1]

As someone who's used DAS for legitimate reasons before, the idea of a cap on "times to ride an attraction" for DAS users inches very close to "discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen" in my eyes.

While DAS users use the LL lines, they are not LL users. An LL user is able to book an LL and go into the LL ride line, a DAS user is given a return time that's typically the length of the stand-by line.

For example, I want to go and ride Flight of Passage, my favorite ride, I'd ask for a pass using DAS and be given a return time around an hour and a half in the future. Someone using LL can just book whatever time they please. While we'd be in the same line, we entered the line under different circumstances and one person (the LL user) likely waited less time.


With the new DAS system, I cannot get DAS anymore likely, and we still have the LL person giving Disney money (which they love) and in the LL line.

The solution is probably just implementing something akin to paper fastpass again and reverting DAS, but Disney doesn't want to do the former because it means less money and doesn't want to do the latter because it means less money. Pandora's box is open and Disney just really likes preying on people desperate to get everything done.

I hear your points, but saying, "Someone using LL can just book whatever time they please" is not correct I think. As the paid LLMP or LLSP user must try to pick from what's available, by luck it could be good, but the return times could be bad, not whatever time they choose.

No matter how a person gets in the LL queue, in my opinion, a one time cap would help lower wait times for everybody both in the LL queue and the standby queue.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If its the case that the only folks who can use the shorter LL queue are DAS folks and folks who pay. It seems fair to me that all who use the shorter LL queue should be limited to one ride of a given attraction.

The DAS users are not waiting a shorter amount of time, though. LL users are the only ones waiting a shorter amount of time. DAS users are waiting the length of the standby queue, plus the length of the LL when they enter.

I understand the frustration that DAS is more limited now. Truly, I do. But limiting DAS guests to only experiencing an attraction once - a limit that doesn't exist for any other standby guest - would likely be found to be discriminatory. "Fair" would be every guest having that restriction - but I don't see Disney limiting that for all guests any time soon.

 

[Angel Ariel]

And this is also a valid point to make, the average person typically isn't able to get into Flight of Passage several times a day, with DAS I was able to get on it around 5 times during my day at DAK. Which, while fun, had me think how legitimate the return times written down on my passes were?

Could the solution be more "truthful" return times? I don't think the ten minute gaps I had between my FoP rides were that "truthful" when stand-by, at the times was 60 minutes.

As someone else pointed out, if the standby was 60 minutes, you weren't using DAS to ride all of those times. There was ILL use mixed in with that. We've used DAS since before the pandemic. At no time have we been able to ride FOP that many times in such a short span. Since DAS has gone electronic, the return times are quite reliably whatever the standby wait is, minus 10 mins. So with DAS alone it would have taken you over 4 hours to ride FOP 5 times with a 60 minutes standby.

 

[Purduevian]

I hear your points, but saying, "Someone using LL can just book whatever time they please" is not correct I think. As the paid LLMP or LLSP user must try to pick from what's available, by luck it could be good, but the return times could be bad, not whatever time they choose.

No matter how a person gets in the LL queue, in my opinion, a one time cap would help lower wait times for everybody both in the LL queue and the standby queue.

Lets put it another way on a less popular attraction... Lets say I have a person in my group obsessed with the little mermaid.

Group A has no need for DAS and gladly waits the 20-mins twice that day so someone can get on their favor ride twice that day.

Group B has DAS and can not wait in lines over 10 mins long. Group B gets to ride mermaid once on DAS, but is unable to ride it a second time due to the DAS person in their group.

I know your next argument is going to be something like "well just make it the headliners". The issues with that are:
1) Where do you draw the line? ToT? Slinky? Frozen? Rat? Tiana?
2) Potential discrimination... If I love ROTR, I as a healthy non-das user can absolutely plan to go on that twice in a day. Someone that can not wait in a long line can not with your rule. ADA protects ACCESS

 

[Disstevefan1]

The DAS users are not waiting a shorter amount of time, though. LL users are the only ones waiting a shorter amount of time. DAS users are waiting the length of the standby queue, plus the length of the LL when they enter.

I understand the frustration that DAS is more limited now. Truly, I do. But limiting DAS guests to only experiencing an attraction once - a limit that doesn't exist for any other standby guest - would likely be found to be discriminatory. "Fair" would be every guest having that restriction - but I don't see Disney limiting that for all guests any time soon.

This is an in interesting discussion.

If my understanding is correct, a LLMP user pays, selects their return time and enters the LL queue at their time. I am not experienced with LLMP, can a LLMP select another return time for the same attraction (if one even exists) it seems the LLMP user is at the mercy of the LL system for sure.

A DAS user is given a return time that is the wait time of the stand by

If I understand correctly DAS can re ride the same attraction over and over, getting anther return time that equals the standby wait time.

Its important to understand because of the changes in DAS, folks with real limitations who now do not qualify for todays DAS do not magically become able to tolerate standby, these folks purchase LLs and hope they are able to select the attractions and maybe ride them once.

And yes there are already lawsuits involving the new DAS.

 

[NotTheOne]

the regular guest may not choose to ride a headliner 3-4 times in a day, absolutely. But if that's how they want to spend their time, they can. The DAS user is still waiting the same amount of time as a regular guest would. They're just doing it elsewhere.

Now I do understand the comments about being able to ride something else while waiting for DAS - that is an advantage, but one Disney allows for and we've been asked by mods not to debate any longer. But the ability to choose to wait for whatever ride you want to spend your time waiting for is something all guests should have.

And that's the key...it's not what the standby guest is likely to do, it's what they are able to do, if they so choose. That's why I don't think it Disney should (or even could, legally) limit DAS use the way LL is limited. As you said, it's an accommodation for the standby line, so there is no reason, IMO, that it should be limited any more than the standby line is.

 

[Purduevian]

This is an in interesting discussion.

If my understanding is correct, a LLMP user pays, selects their return time and enters the LL queue at their time. I am not experienced with LLMP, can a LLMP select another return time for the same attraction (if one even exists) it seems the LLMP user is at the mercy of the LL system for sure.

A DAS user is given a return time that is the wait time of the stand by

If I understand correctly DAS can re ride the same attraction over and over, getting anther return time that equals the standby wait time.

Its important to understand because of the changes in DAS, folks with real limitations who now do not qualify for todays DAS do not magically become able to tolerate standby, these folks purchase LLs and hope they are able to select the attractions and maybe ride them once.

And yes there are already lawsuits involving the new DAS.

I don't think many people would argue that DAS (in a vacuum and taking out the difficulties of a person requiring DAS navigating a theme park) is a more advantageous system than LLMP because rides can not sell out and re-rides are allowed.

Because it is not meant to be a replacement/substitution for LLMP, I think comparing it to LLMP is useless as they are unrelated other than physically sharing a line. DAS is meant to be a standby replacement, not a LLMP replacement (DAS users can get LLMP on top of DAS).

Now DAS has advantages over standby because a user is not "locked" in a line. However, I think these advantages fall into one of two categories. Either the advantage is not feasible for Disney to stop (such as a DAS user getting in a standby line while waiting for a return time) or encourages the guest to spend money (dinning, shopping, or utilizing LLMP or LLSP).

The ideal system is the Volcano bay Tapu Tapu where basically everyone in the park has DAS. However, the legacy parks are simply not built to handle a low % of people in lines. EPIC actually kind of looks like it could work given how celestial park was designed .

 

[Chi84]

And that's the key...it's not what the standby guest is likely to do, it's what they are able to do, if they so choose. That's why I don't think it Disney should (or even could, legally) limit DAS use the way LL is limited. As you said, it's an accommodation for the standby line, so there is no reason, IMO, that it should be limited any more than the standby line is.

That’s not entirely accurate.

In looking at what is legally required, Disney must provide a disabled person with a “like experience” to that of a non-disabled person.

In the GAC to DAS case the court looked at how the average non-disabled guest actually experienced the parks, not on how the guest would be able to experience it if they made all the choices available to them.

It’s important to remember that the accommodation must be one that Disney can reasonably provide. Posters here tend to look at only what the disabled person needs.

 

[Splash4eva]

the regular guest may not choose to ride a headliner 3-4 times in a day, absolutely. But if that's how they want to spend their time, they can. The DAS user is still waiting the same amount of time as a regular guest would. They're just doing it elsewhere.

Now I do understand the comments about being able to ride something else while waiting for DAS - that is an advantage, but one Disney allows for and we've been asked by mods not to debate any longer. But the ability to choose to wait for whatever ride you want to spend your time waiting for is something all guests should have.

Again lawyers/legal ruin everything. How many people who visit Disney on vacation literally go to any park and keep riding the same E Ticket over and over and over again. Come on lets be real now.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Again lawyers/legal ruin everything. How many people who visit Disney on vacation literally go to any park and keep riding the same E Ticket over and over and over again. Come on lets be real now.

Very few. And I would be willing to bet few DAS users do it as well.

 

[Splash4eva]

And this is also a valid point to make, the average person typically isn't able to get into Flight of Passage several times a day, with DAS I was able to get on it around 5 times during my day at DAK. Which, while fun, had me think how legitimate the return times written down on my passes were?

Could the solution be more "truthful" return times? I don't think the ten minute gaps I had between my FoP rides were that "truthful" when stand-by, at the times was 60 minutes.

In regards to return times. Ive always looked and compared and they seem pretty accurate for most part. Ive been in situations tho ive booked and then wait time was increased (uodated) and vice versa and in cases like that if there is any significance you can easily cxl and rebook your DAS but ive never seen any real disparity over th years

 

[Splash4eva]

Very few. And I would be willing to bet few DAS users do it as well.

So. If you feel that way. Limiting them should not cause a major issue. And could have been a realistic solution to some of the issues. But again i truly felt Disney wanted to implode it to sell what they are now. Listen im a small sample but ill fully admit and others i know who need DAS will hit headliners easily 3 times a day via DAS without even compromising the rest of your day.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So. If you feel that way. Limiting them should not cause a major issue. And could have been a realistic solution to some of the issues. But again i truly felt Disney wanted to implode it to sell what they are now. Listen im a small sample but ill fully admit and others i know who need DAS will hit headliners easily 3 times a day via DAS without even compromising the rest of your day.

It's not about feelings. It's about acces.

LL users are only allowed to use a LL once. They are also allowed to use the standby for that ride as many times as they like. They may not choose to, but they are allowed to.

Imposing a one-ride only limit solely on DAS users - who, again, *cannot access the standby line*, would create inequitable *access*.

 

[Chi84]

It's not about feelings. It's about acces.

LL users are only allowed to use a LL once. They are also allowed to use the standby for that ride as many times as they like. They may not choose to, but they are allowed to.

Imposing a one-ride only limit solely on DAS users - who, again, *cannot access the standby line*, would create inequitable *access*.

It might. But that’s only one part of a two-part equation.

Again, a business is allowed to consider how the average guest uses its parks in fashioning a like experience. It can show how many times an average guest rides a headliner in considering what would constitute a reasonable accommodation to a disabled guest.

A business is not required to remove all difficulty or discomfort regarding access. It may not be possible to give a disabled guest the same experience that a non-disabled guest could have if that guest made all the choices available to them.

I’m simply talking about what may be legally required, not what is fair or right.

 

[Splash4eva]

It's not about feelings. It's about acces.

LL users are only allowed to use a LL once. They are also allowed to use the standby for that ride as many times as they like. They may not choose to, but they are allowed to.

Imposing a one-ride only limit solely on DAS users - who, again, *cannot access the standby line*, would create inequitable *access*.

Ive never suggested only 1 time ride. Ive offered multiple options some being a 2 ride limit maybe 3 but must wait x amt of time between rides to limit the clogged LL. Its all a moot point now as they have changed the system already so but as ive said before the LL is now filled with paying customers so…

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I feel I'm reading the first 10 pages over and over again.

 

[Tigger&Pooh]

Its important to understand because of the changes in DAS, folks with real limitations who now do not qualify for todays DAS do not magically become able to tolerate standby, these folks purchase LLs and hope they are able to select the attractions and maybe ride them once.

Are these individuals making use of the alternative accommodations? Have they even tried? DAS is not the only accommodation for not waiting in the standby queue.

Limiting them should not cause a major issue. And could have been a realistic solution to some of the issues.

If it's not a large number of people re-riding, how would limiting re-rides be any kind of realistic solution that allows more people access to DAS?

 

[jennab55]

Technically yes but to me to be allowed the multiple re rides is definitely an “advantage” and i say this as someone who haS DAS. The regular guest is not waiting in line to ride a headliner 3-4 times a day.

But the point is that any standby guest could wait in a headliner queue 3-4 times per day. Limiting a DAS user like that would be discriminatory as the point of DAS is to have a similar experience to a standby user.

Now, they could limit to saying a DAS user cannot go on any other attraction during their waiting outside the queue for their return.

 

[jennab55]

Its important to understand because of the changes in DAS, folks with real limitations who now do not qualify for todays DAS do not magically become able to tolerate standby, these folks purchase LLs and hope they are able to select the attractions and maybe ride them once.

Those people can also wait outside the queue. The rest of their party can wait in the standby queue, then the disabled person can join them at the merge point by going through the LL. There are still accommodations offered other than DAS.