Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Casper Gutman]

The bottom line is that the parks are not capable of handling line-skipping systems with the crowd levels Disney currently allows. Arguing about which line-skipping system is best is just trying to pick different groups of winners and losers, trying to ensure that the system privileges MY particular way of visiting this park. The only solution is the elimination of all line-skipping systems. But WDW will never do that. So they might as well keep things the way they are with Genie+, since any system will disadvantage a huge number of guests, and at least with Genie WDW execs get to make money. Who knows, if enough people become disgruntled with Genie and stop visiting, maybe crowds will fall to a level where line-skipping systems can work.

 

[crazy4disney]

The bottom line is that the parks are not capable of handling line-skipping systems with the crowd levels Disney currently allows. Arguing about which line-skipping system is best is just trying to pick different groups of winners and losers, trying to ensure that the system privileges MY particular way of visiting this park. The only solution is the elimination of all line-skipping systems. But WDW will never do that. So they might as well keep things the way they are with Genie+, since any system will disadvantage a huge number of guests, and at least with Genie WDW execs get to make money. Who knows, if enough people become disgruntled with Genie and stop visiting, maybe crowds will fall to a level where line-skipping systems can work.

Do you really think going to full
Stand by is solution to Disney’s current problem. Actually it may be because i cant see the same amount of people plunking down All that money to sit on hours long lines to ride something especially if you are a repeat visitor. FP+ was honestly fair to every resort guests and as people posted here non resort guests as well were not totally shut out.

 

[Chi84]

Do you really think going to full
Stand by is solution to Disney’s current problem. Actually it may be because i cant see the same amount of people plunking down All that money to sit on hours long lines to ride something especially if you are a repeat visitor. FP+ was honestly fair to every resort guests and as people posted here non resort guests as well were not totally shut out.

Our last family vacation included 2 grandparents (us), our 2 children and their spouses and our 3 very young grandchildren. FP+ would have worked better for us than Genie+ because it would have been easier to plan out our day to limit waits and accommodate schedules.

The one thing that wouldn’t have worked at all for our group, in our particular circumstances, is all standby. WDW would lose us if they ever went that route. (It’s a good bet they may lose us anyway if they keep Genie+.) But I feel very confident that they will never go to all standby. There’s too much to do there for people to spend hours waiting in lines for a couple of rides, even for those who are willing and physically able to do so.

 

[Jrb1979]

Do you really think going to full
Stand by is solution to Disney’s current problem. Actually it may be because i cant see the same amount of people plunking down All that money to sit on hours long lines to ride something especially if you are a repeat visitor. FP+ was honestly fair to every resort guests and as people posted here non resort guests as well were not totally shut out.

No matter how much you loved FP+ it's doubtful it's coming back and it's never going to be free again. Why can't there be a middle ground?

I came up with a way to give the resort guests something to please them. Onsite guests get 1 LL per day they can pre-book ahead of time. Everything else is day of. The caveat to all of it is Genie+ had capped sales.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Do you really think going to full
Stand by is solution to Disney’s current problem. Actually it may be because i cant see the same amount of people plunking down All that money to sit on hours long lines to ride something especially if you are a repeat visitor. FP+ was honestly fair to every resort guests and as people posted here non resort guests as well were not totally shut out.

Yes, full stand-by is the only actual solution. It’s the system every one of the parks was designed from the ground up to accommodate. It would provide a genuinely superior experience for a vast majority of guests, with fast, steadily moving lines that fluctuated in length over the course of the day. The benefits of line-skipping systems are illusory save in very specific, fringe cases - people who only want to ride a relatively small, specific group of rides (with one headliner per day) and are willing and able to plan two months in advance, for instance.

But standby will never return, and so we will just cycle through broken systems, with a new group of guests benefiting or being penalized each time.

PS: “Not totally shut out” is not a positive term when applied to a full-price-paying guest at a well-run theme park.

 

[DisneyHead123]

The bottom line is that the parks are not capable of handling line-skipping systems with the crowd levels Disney currently allows. Arguing about which line-skipping system is best is just trying to pick different groups of winners and losers, trying to ensure that the system privileges MY particular way of visiting this park. The only solution is the elimination of all line-skipping systems. But WDW will never do that. So they might as well keep things the way they are with Genie+, since any system will disadvantage a huge number of guests, and at least with Genie WDW execs get to make money. Who knows, if enough people become disgruntled with Genie and stop visiting, maybe crowds will fall to a level where line-skipping systems can work.

To the bolded - my guess is that things will trend in the exact opposite direction. The equal and opposing solution to no reservations is that everyone has a reservation for everything. And given trends - increased attendance, increased desire from Disney to be able to plan things out in terms of workforce / resources, increased desire from guests to lock in their rides and have low waits, increased use of technology for pre-orders - I think that is the more efficient if ever-so-slightly slightly dystopian future we are trending towards. In 30 years I think "AAR" might stand for "Advance Attraction Reservation" and you might just make them for most things.

Just my random take though. I still think the coming "Financial Whatever The F- Is About To Happen" will be a big factor. If that decreases travel substantially enough, it might not even be an issue for the next couple of decades.

 

[Witchy Chick]

No G+ available for DHS at 7am?

Only things showing return times are shows

 

[TheMaxRebo]

No G+ available for DHS at 7am?

Only things showing return times are shows

View attachment 645291

View attachment 645292

Seems there now, not sure if a delay or just a random bug

 

[crazy4disney]

Yes, full stand-by is the only actual solution. It’s the system every one of the parks was designed from the ground up to accommodate. It would provide a genuinely superior experience for a vast majority of guests, with fast, steadily moving lines that fluctuated in length over the course of the day. The benefits of line-skipping systems are illusory save in very specific, fringe cases - people who only want to ride a relatively small, specific group of rides (with one headliner per day) and are willing and able to plan two months in advance, for instance.

But standby will never return, and so we will just cycle through broken systems, with a new group of guests benefiting or being penalized each time.

PS: “Not totally shut out” is not a positive term when applied to a full-price-paying guest at a well-run theme park.

In regards to your response of my shut out comment. A) you always had stand by and B) as stated by many users and others i know they were still able to get FP to some of the “impossible” ones. As a resort guest ive basically never had an issue obtaining any ride i want and for everyone day of if you played the refresh game hard to get attractions would pop up all the time allowing for re rides of a favorite it or a skip the line for it as well.
Disney simple doesnt have the capacity to deal with the amount of visitors they attract and have done nothing to address this issue over the last decade. Hence why FP+ to me and many others worked in regards to avoiding plenty of long waits in the parks especially MK. As a resort guest I never had an issue getting 7DMT, Splash, BTM, Space, PP at pretty much all early times freeing up my 4th by 1130 the latest.
The other “impossible” one FoP always have been able to obtain one and again before noon allowing me to free up the 4th one. I can keep going… listen i know Fp is not coming back but Genie is awful and the only thing that would be worse would be full stand by…

 

[crazy4disney]

No matter how much you loved FP+ it's doubtful it's coming back and it's never going to be free again. Why can't there be a middle ground?

I came up with a way to give the resort guests something to please them. Onsite guests get 1 LL per day they can pre-book ahead of time. Everything else is day of. The caveat to all of it is Genie+ had capped sales.

Trust me im under no illusion FP is coming back…. Your idea isnt terrible but again pre booking a ride is simply FP and reducing to 1 ride as opposed to 3 is nothing more than Disney admitting they messed this up. 1 is better than nothing agreed but in the same respect i would love to see them try and go back to pre booking charge for it obviously and see what happens. Either way. Unless they start to build some mid tier rides and shows to gobble up people this problem is never going away.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Here is what I would like to see.

Resort guests get to book 1 LL ahead of time for each day they are staying. That way resort guests get a bone thrown at them for staying on-site. The rest is available at park open. No more 7am.

The second thing I would do is charge $50 a day for Genie+ and cap sales.

There is no system that will work best for everyone - ever system mentioned I can this if people I know for whom it would be a negative change

I do think you proposal, in general, addresses the key issues with G+ which is the opening of booking at 7am every day of your vacation and too many people having it

I look at Epcot now and basically there are 3 rides that really benefit from skipping the line, the rest rarely get substantial lines - but all three of those are typically out of LL for the day by 10:30, meaning you likely will only be able to book one of them, at 7am .... If I am paying extra for G+ I should be able to easily get more than 1 truly useful LL

I would do what you propose but also remove G+LL from attractions that don't really need it (omnimovers, etc) and add (back) more things for people to do - be it streetmosphere or thinking like Perry's in Epcot, etc

I also wouldn't be opposed to ending G+ and just having ILL rides (2-3 per park)

 

[drizgirl]

Trust me im under no illusion FP is coming back…. Your idea isnt terrible but again pre booking a ride is simply FP and reducing to 1 ride as opposed to 3 is nothing more than Disney admitting they messed this up. 1 is better than nothing agreed but in the same respect i would love to see them try and go back to pre booking charge for it obviously and see what happens. Either way. Unless they start to build some mid tier rides and shows to gobble up people this problem is never going away.

They are likely willing to do anything but build enough net new attractions. The rest of this is all a giant shell game to disguise that fact. They keep redesigning the shells so we can all squabble over what color and shape the shells are, but they aren’t about to build enough new stuff to keep up with attendance. That’s not how CEOs get giant bonuses. Chapek isn’t staying long. He doesn’t care about long term parks satisfaction.

 

[crazy4disney]

They are likely willing to do anything but build enough net new attractions. The rest of this is all a giant shell game to disguise that fact. They keep redesigning the shells so we can all squabble over what color and shape the shells are, but they aren’t about to build enough new stuff to keep up with attendance. That’s not how CEOs get giant bonuses. Chapek isn’t staying long. He doesn’t care about long term parks satisfaction.

I totally agree. Only solution is not happening at least not anytime soon. Only hope is that this new found income stream generates enough money where they will start building quicker possibly more often to see the actual value in that. Maybe i was naive or just lucky but to me FP+ worked especially in the MK and honestly most people are there for enough time where you probably are hitting the parks twice which basically gives you 6 skip the line passes in theory to rides at least in 2 parks most likely 3…

 

[bhg469]

I would do what you propose but also remove G+LL from attractions that don't really need it (omnimovers, etc) and add (back) more things for people to do - be it streetmosphere or thinking like Perry's in Epcot, etc

I also wouldn't be opposed to ending G+ and just having ILL rides (2-3 per park)

This would be the perfect solution.. People have been saying basically this for years. As soon as they introduced Fastpass to Haunted mansion, it just kept getting worse.. Now the queue starts somewhere in tomorrowland..

 

[Jrb1979]

I totally agree. Only solution is not happening at least not anytime soon. Only hope is that this new found income stream generates enough money where they will start building quicker possibly more often to see the actual value in that. Maybe i was naive or just lucky but to me FP+ worked especially in the MK and honestly most people are there for enough time where you probably are hitting the parks twice which basically gives you 6 skip the line passes in theory to rides at least in 2 parks most likely 3…

FP+ did work well for resort guests. I agree they need more attractions in each park. As has been mentioned Disney knows Genie+ isn't working. I know it has lots of issues but the main reason it doesn't work is too many people have it. They also know your average guest didn't like the amount of planning required. They went too far the other way. I'm hoping when they do fix Genie+ there is a middle ground.

 

[Jeff4272]

Then you are back to the problems FP+ had. A lot of inventory would be gone. If you want to pre-book I would limit to 1 per day. That way it keeps inventory available for those who stay off site.

If i cannot pre book, i wouldnt go......and im their target audience.....stay in deluxe hotels and eat every meal there.....

Their audience IS the hotel guest.....

It will bite them in the butt, its def coming

 

[maemae74]

FP+ did work well for resort guests. I agree they need more attractions in each park. As has been mentioned Disney knows Genie+ isn't working. I know it has lots of issues but the main reason it doesn't work is too many people have it. They also know your average guest didn't like the amount of planning required. They went too far the other way. I'm hoping when they do fix Genie+ there is a middle ground.

Do you think that could be why you can longer add it in advance to your ticket? Maybe thinking about scraping it and don't want to have the headaches of refunding prior purchases?

 

[Jeff4272]

I agree the new system sucks but outside of people here, your average guest didn't like FP+ due to the planning. I do think there should be a middle ground. Let the planners have 1 per day pre booked.

1 per day is not enough

Guest satisfaction will still be bad......

You cant get "half pregnant"

This system is obviously not working, fix it

 

[G00fyDad]

Do you think that could be why you can longer add it in advance to your ticket? Maybe thinking about scraping it and don't want to have the headaches of refunding prior purchases?

I think that they are planning another major revamp of the system and they are trying to limit the damage in-between the two systems transition. But first they have to figure out how to suck as much money from their customers as they can without losing any of the revenue they have come to expect and love from this system.

 

[Jeff4272]

A lot of people write things on here that are not realistic......Lets look at the facts that I think we can almost all agree on

- Paid line skip is here to stay......they will never go back to stand by only or free FP

- Park Pass is here to stay........you have to make Park Pass Reservations in advance so you know what park you are in MONTHS in advance

- you have to make dining reservations months in advance (meaning if you want to eat anything other than crap food)

- Why wouldn't you want to make your ride reservations in advance? Would you rather leave it to chance the morning of? This makes ZERO sense to me......Can anyone explain to me the reasoning why they wouldn't WANT to make thier ride reservations in advance knowing all of these other factors?

You can avoid overlapping w dining and park hopping reservations, you can avoid zig zagging the park....you can assure you're getting to ride what you want............you don't have to wake up EVERY day before 7am


SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE DRAWBACK IS TO THIS?