Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[hopemax]

And if anyone is thinking that we can’t keep doing this, so let it rip. This is where the price will be paid.

18% of healthcare workers have already quit, 12% were laid off. Those remaining almost 1/3rd are considering leaving, and up to 2/3rds of critical care nurses have thought about it.

Why Health-Care Workers Are Quitting in Droves

About one in five health-care workers has left their job since the pandemic started. This is their story—and the story of those left behind.

www.theatlantic.com

“Throughout the pandemic, commentators have looked to COVID-hospitalization numbers as an indicator of the health-care system’s state. But those numbers say nothing about the dwindling workforce, the mounting exhaustion of those left behind, the expertise now missing from hospitals, or the waves of post-COVID or non-COVID patients. Focusing on COVID numbers belies how much harder getting good medical care for anything is now—and how long that trend could potentially continue.”

 

[Lilofan]

And if anyone is thinking that we can’t keep doing this, so let it rip. This is where the price will be paid.

18% of healthcare workers have already quit, 12% were laid off. Those remaining almost 1/3rd are considering leaving, and up to 2/3rds of critical care nurses have thought about it.

Why Health-Care Workers Are Quitting in Droves

About one in five health-care workers has left their job since the pandemic started. This is their story—and the story of those left behind.

www.theatlantic.com

“Throughout the pandemic, commentators have looked to COVID-hospitalization numbers as an indicator of the health-care system’s state. But those numbers say nothing about the dwindling workforce, the mounting exhaustion of those left behind, the expertise now missing from hospitals, or the waves of post-COVID or non-COVID patients. Focusing on COVID numbers belies how much harder getting good medical care for anything is now—and how long that trend could potentially continue.”

One viable solution is streamline the immigrant visas that are backlogged to include foreign eligible critical care nurses to fill positions. There are already a number of foreign RNs working in the USA so more of them can come here to replace the ones that are quitting. Developed countries need to continue to recruit RNs from less developed poorer countries such as the Philippines where a RN earns only $250 US dollars per month in the PI.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And if anyone is thinking that we can’t keep doing this, so let it rip. This is where the price will be paid.

18% of healthcare workers have already quit, 12% were laid off. Those remaining almost 1/3rd are considering leaving, and up to 2/3rds of critical care nurses have thought about it.

Why Health-Care Workers Are Quitting in Droves

About one in five health-care workers has left their job since the pandemic started. This is their story—and the story of those left behind.

www.theatlantic.com

“Throughout the pandemic, commentators have looked to COVID-hospitalization numbers as an indicator of the health-care system’s state. But those numbers say nothing about the dwindling workforce, the mounting exhaustion of those left behind, the expertise now missing from hospitals, or the waves of post-COVID or non-COVID patients. Focusing on COVID numbers belies how much harder getting good medical care for anything is now—and how long that trend could potentially continue.”

There’s already an excuse, vaccine requirements that aren’t actually new to healthcare workers. Nothing should be done and it’ll all somehow just workout and be fine.

 

[Bob Harlem]

Florida covid hospitalization numbers continued to drop over the weekend to a new all time low since April 2020..

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protect-public.hhs.gov

 

[Nubs70]

I would describe it as horrible rather than interesting

It's interesting that with over 100% vaccine compliance they are still experiencing a surge worthy of prohibiting social activities.

 

[danlb_2000]

A very unique mixture of lunacy, insanity, and nonsense in Europe. I’d argue that the policy decisions have been more damaging than the virus itself.
On a side note… the US is preparing for the busiest holiday travel season in years. Once again, the US will continue to lead the post-COVID recovery as Europe continues to falter.

But we are also leading them in deaths per capita.

 

[mmascari]

It's interesting that with over 100% vaccine compliance they are still experiencing a surge worthy of prohibiting social activities.

How porous is the boarder with Spain? Spain is at 80% nationally, but what's the area near Gibraltar at?

To me, that would be larger question, if that area reflects the national average in Spain, then is 80% still not enough? Or are there regional differences going on here and that area is lower?

Now, if there is no boarder crossing at all going on, making them super isolated and highly vaccinated that's a different story too. Based on their size, this seems unlikely.

In the US, we have some towns and counties with almost that high a vaccination rate. But, they're not isolated either and interact with their surroundings.

We need more details to know if this story is clickbait cherry picked stats to say "High Vaccination not enough, news at 11:00" or if it's a much more boring "High Vaccination while surrounded by high spread is not enough" which is boring but completely correct. The story lacked the details to tell which of these it is.

If someone has a link to the details to figure out that distinction, that would be very interesting.

 

[hopemax]

Gibraltar is at above 100% because they let nearby Spanish citizens be vaccinated because many work or regularly visit Gibraltar. They allowed it for the economy.

The problem is, as we’ve learned from Delta… Transmission, replication happens so fast that infection happens. And the rate of “people needing care” would outpace “ability to provide care” without intervention. Even if it’s manageable ailments and not death.

Gibraltar is a tiny place, but lovely… there is a wonderful IMO, linens shop on their Main Street I’d love to be able to shop in again.

 

[danlb_2000]

Gibraltar is at above 100% because they let nearby Spanish citizens be vaccinated because many work or regularly visit Gibraltar. They allowed it for the economy.

The problem is, as we’ve learned from Delta… Transmission, replication happens so fast that infection happens. And the rate of “people needing care” would outpace “ability to provide care” without intervention. Even if it’s manageable ailments and not death.

Gibraltar is a tiny place, but lovely… there is a wonderful IMO, linens shop on their Main Street I’d love to be able to shop in again.

Do you which vaccines they use?

 

[hopemax]

Do you which vaccines they use?

Majority Pfizer. Little bit of AstraZeneca for allergic reactions to the Pfizer.

 

[mmascari]

Gibraltar is a tiny place, but lovely… there is a wonderful IMO, linens shop on their Main Street I’d love to be able to shop in again.

For size perspective, start with that this statement makes sense. The country conceivably has a Main Street.

From Wikipedia:
Gibraltar - area of 6.7 km2 (2.6 sq mi) - Google says that is 1,664 acres.
WDW - 25,000 acres (39 sq mi; 101 km2)

From Google Maps, the walk from the Northern boarder to the Southern one (the long dimension) is about 3.5 miles.

Imagine if WDW had this vaccine rate.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Who would have thought, more U.S. Covid fatalities in 2021 than in 2020

We’re “open” again though, for much of 2020 many states were essentially closed.

The death numbers are bleak but it’s a result of people back out living their lives rather than hiding in their homes (and still dying).

I’d take 2021 over 2020 in a heartbeat.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Who would have thought, more U.S. Covid fatalities in 2021 than in 2020

The opposite of surprising.

Vaccination rates were, and continue to be, disturbingly low. Social distancing and other restrictions have eased. This allowed the Delta variant to tear through the unvaccinated population.

I'd feel sorry for those people if it wasn't their own ignorant choice not to get vaccinated.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I'd feel sorry for those people if it wasn't their own ignorant choice not to get vaccinated.

There’s been so many breakthrough cases though. It’s not that simple.

 

[Kevin_W]

The opposite of surprising.

Vaccination rates were, and continue to be, disturbingly low. Social distancing and other restrictions have eased. This allowed the Delta variant to tear through the unvaccinated population.

I'd feel sorry for those people if it wasn't their own ignorant choice not to get vaccinated.

I'd go with "surprising". The UK and South Africa variants (before we were using Greek letters) we're not significantly worse than the original, so it seemed that with our precautions through 2020 and vaccines starting late 2020/early2021 that we were coming out of the woods.

Though the possibility of a more virulent strain like Delta was always there, we had avoided it for more than a year and I, at least, hoped that 2020 was the worst.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Though the possibility of a more virulent strain like Delta was always there, we had avoided it for more than a year and I, at least, hoped that 2020 was the worst.

A possibility outright denied by many.

 

[yonafunu]

There’s been so many breakthrough cases though. It’s not that simple.

It is that simple. Breakthough cases will not going to a hospitalisation because of vaccination. Again, having covid is not an issue if your are vaccinated, which is not true when you are not.

 

[hopemax]

There’s been so many breakthrough cases though. It’s not that simple.

But just as losing your sense of taste and smell isn’t because your tongue and nose don’t work; It’s because your brain doesn’t…. Breakthrough cases isn’t just about vaccination it’s also about the capabilities of the human immune system vs this virus. If having instructions isn’t enough to get your immune system up for the fight, how is not having instructions going to be better? At the core of all of this is: the virus is firing its weapons faster than human immune response can raise shields. If you are unvaccinated and have not been previously infected, you have no SARS-CoV-2 shields. You better hope your armor is strong enough to enter the battle without them.

 

[mmascari]

I'd feel sorry for those people if it wasn't their own ignorant choice not to get vaccinated.

There’s been so many breakthrough cases though. It’s not that simple.

You're right. I don't reel sorry for the unvaccinated anymore (I'm sad that I don't). I feel anger at the unvaccinated who are spreading COVID.

The quantity of breakthrough cases is directly related to the quantity of unvaccinated continuing to provide COVID with plenty of people to infect. The unvaccinated are directly responsible for the quantity of breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.

 

[mmascari]

It is that simple. Breakthough cases will not going to a hospitalisation because of vaccination. Again, having covid is not an issue if your are vaccinated, which is not true when you are not.

Less of an issue, not no issue at all.

A lot less of an issue for sure.

Reduction, not force field.

Some number of unvaccinated will allow COVID to spread creating a baseline transmission rate. Some small percentage of vaccinated will be breakthrough cases, a reduction based on that baseline transmission not zero. Some small percentage of those breakthrough cases will need hospitalization. Some small percentage of those who need hospitalization will die.

Base rate * reduction * reduction * reduction = Unlucky few.

For those in the unlucky few, it doesn't matter that the triple reduction made the number statistically small. To them, and their families, the only thing that matters is that the base rate was to high for the triple reduction to make it actually 0 and the impact to the rest of their lives (or lack of life) will be devastating.

And, that's why I'm angry. At this point, those who choose to be unvaccinated are just fine causing that impact.

You can play with the 3 reduction rates and get different numbers of vaccinated that die anyway. But, no matter what percentages you use for each, there's always one truth. The larger the first number is for the base rate of cases, the larger the last number will be.

It's definitely a small number relative to the first. But, that first number for the base rate is still so high that the last one is a meaningful value above 0.