jloucks
Well-Known Member
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What will come first a 5th disney park or a 3rd universal park?
- Thread starter CentralFloridaRocks831
- Start date
CaptainAmerica
Well-Known Member
IMO, Disney should never add a fifth park. It doesn't make any sense. The average American family takes vacations one week at a time. A fifth park would give you more to do than can ever be done in a week. Yet that family can only take that one week of vacation time. There's no reason to make the investment in a fifth park if you won't be able to get people to stay any longer.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
That means nothing. A fifth gate is new attractions no different than new attractions in the existing parks. The difference is that one option is far more expensive than the other.
jloucks
Well-Known Member
Here is what it means. Much more steady demand. When there is no holiday here, there is someplace else on the planet. Park always full.
The parks are packed. Beyond comfort levels. Unless you add sq footage any attraction you add is going to 'attract' more bodies and exacerbate the crowd (supply) issue. A new park increases sq footage (supply) and addresses the crowding. ...one of my top irritants with the parks. More so than minor quality issues. Obviously some love massive crowds and want to make it even more cozy. Not me.
jloucks
Well-Known Member
You have a good point. Now that you focused my memory, I do remember some semi-abandoned areas around Epcot. There simply wasn't anything there. I stand corrected as far as Epcot is concerned.
jloucks
Well-Known Member
I was thinking more about the global visitors w' 2-3 weeks. ...4 weeks?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Attractions do add area that is occupied by guests.
CaptainAmerica
Well-Known Member
They also draw MORE guests.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Depends on the scale. The Orlando market is overly obsessed with marquee attractions.
Skip
Well-Known Member
No 5th park, ever. Disney learned with Animal Kingdom that additional parks will no longer get the average guest to extend their stay. Now that more and more people are exclusively going to the Magic Kingdom... you think they're thinking about a fifth gate?
There is a supply problem, but it's mostly isolated to the Magic Kingdom. Epcot, DHS and DAK all have underutilized supply due to low demand relative to MK. Obvious (...) choice is to make Epcot, DHS and DAK larger draws to shift demand more evenly between the parks - Pandora might help, may not enough. Frozen will cause its own set of problems. DHS has nothing on the immediate horizon.
Other big problem, as pointed out time and time again, is that DHS and DAK are half-day parks in their current form. (You can explore the animal trails! Doesn't matter if the average guest doesn't do it.) This means they're hitting DAK in the morning then taking a bus to MK for fireworks. DAK's night show will certainly help here, but I'm still not convinced it has enough to do in the park to last you until then.
There is a supply problem, but it's mostly isolated to the Magic Kingdom. Epcot, DHS and DAK all have underutilized supply due to low demand relative to MK. Obvious (...) choice is to make Epcot, DHS and DAK larger draws to shift demand more evenly between the parks - Pandora might help, may not enough. Frozen will cause its own set of problems. DHS has nothing on the immediate horizon.
Other big problem, as pointed out time and time again, is that DHS and DAK are half-day parks in their current form. (You can explore the animal trails! Doesn't matter if the average guest doesn't do it.) This means they're hitting DAK in the morning then taking a bus to MK for fireworks. DAK's night show will certainly help here, but I'm still not convinced it has enough to do in the park to last you until then.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
Bottom line, WDW has one over crowded park and 3 under utilized parks.
They need to build to add capacity because they have been resting on their laurels for 15 years. Now it appears that building doesn't help capacity because more people show up to see the new stuff. Disney doesn't even have enough capacity to handle adding new stuff. What happens when millions show up at a park with 7 rides to see the new Star Wars land?
This is a problem created themselves and now they have a real problem. Pent up demand combined with chronic stagnation.
They need to build to add capacity because they have been resting on their laurels for 15 years. Now it appears that building doesn't help capacity because more people show up to see the new stuff. Disney doesn't even have enough capacity to handle adding new stuff. What happens when millions show up at a park with 7 rides to see the new Star Wars land?
This is a problem created themselves and now they have a real problem. Pent up demand combined with chronic stagnation.
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
While I agree with many of your points, I would not say there will 'never' be a fifth gate. A lot depends on just what Universal does. Right now with only two parks, many people take a couple days out of their Disney vacations to see Universal. Many foreign tourists seem to stay for 2-3 weeks at a time, and repeat visits to the parks....then there's the hardcore Disney fans that visit the parks no matter how stale they are. People come. Right now the thought of a fifth Disney gate disgusts me, but that's only because the resort has three underutilized parks already that need some serious love.
The day very well could come though, when Disney finally gets its head out of its butt and fixes those parks, and needs something else to not only spread out crowds, but possibly combat Universal gate #3.
Only time will tell.
JordanNite
Well-Known Member
Where could theoretically they put a 3rd park ?
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
It will be somewhere along Universal Blvd.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
Disney is learning some real lessons from Hollywood Studios, and not in a good way for us.
Attendance has barely shifted, yet half the park has closed, costs are down, and the actual offering is minimal. With only a few attractions and short opening hours, lines are long enough that even with a reduced offering the Studios still takes a day out of someone's vacation. In short, guests don't care if the offering is minimal, they will still block out a whole day for a Disney park.
Visitors to Disney really couldn't care less how much there is to do, what quality it is or how expensive it is, they just want to meet characters and feel the magic, which makes a new gate a much easier and cheaper prospect to build - One signature ride, a couple of off-the-shelf kiddie coasters, a fancy restaurant or two and a ton of character meets and boom, there's an extra gate for very little effort, but huge potential for guest attendance and profit. Make it 'boutique' branded with super high ticket prices, and unlimited fastpass for resort guests, and they'll be laughing. Might even make a sixth gate while they're at it.
If statistics show across the board people are reducing their visit by a day, I could see a cheap and small fifth gate springing up very quickly, with just enough to get that missing day back. There's no need to expand or improve any of the other parks first - the guests come anyway to those, and if crowds drop just add a festival overlay (Star Wars Weekend, Food & Wine etc.) to keep things buoyant.
And what quicker way to kill the competition? Yes the new gates may be half-hearted, but they will still take that valuable vacation time away from Sea World and Universal without having to spend much money, and that's what matters at the end of the day.
Universal's third gate for sure. Just in the last 5 years, Universal has opened 3 new highly immersive lands (HP x2, Springfield), 3 new E-tickets (HP x2, Transformers), 4 other new attractions (Hogwarts Express, Ollivanders x2, Kang and Kodos, Raptor Encounter), a mini golf course, revamped 3 other attractions (Dragon Challenge, Hippogriff, Minions) and gave Spiderman a facelift. That's 14 new experiences, with at least the Kong E-ticket/mini-land and Volcano Bay water park in the cannon for the next 2 years.
Meanwhile, the Mouse has given us an expanded Fantasyland with 3 new attractions, and a facelift on Test Track. 5 new experiences, spread twice as thin. The last true E-ticket that WDW produced was Everest in 2006 - 9 years ago!
In short, Universal's third gate is way sooner because they will continue expand and impress. Disney will continue to coast, because they can and still make boatloads of money.
Meanwhile, the Mouse has given us an expanded Fantasyland with 3 new attractions, and a facelift on Test Track. 5 new experiences, spread twice as thin. The last true E-ticket that WDW produced was Everest in 2006 - 9 years ago!
In short, Universal's third gate is way sooner because they will continue expand and impress. Disney will continue to coast, because they can and still make boatloads of money.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
DHS is only staying afloat due to Frozen Summer Fun at this point. Once Epcot takes the Frozen crowds away, and Little Mermaid/LMA close down, DHS will start to decline in attendance. Or TDO will fudge an attendance increase or a flat number by shifting some from Epcot/MK.
I don't see DHS perpetually increasing with only 11 attractions for 2016/2017. Universal Orlando is developing some solid WOM. Eventually, people will make the shift from DHS to Universal. AK and Epcot are far more appealing uses of a day at this point. Especially if you're paying $85-95 for a 1-day ticket.
Unless TDO starts selling a $40-45 ticket for DHS during construction (2016-2019), I don't see how it continues to grow past this year.
Not to mention their upcoming lineup:
new E-ticket (Kong)
Hello Kitty shop/M&G to replace Lucy
revamps of Twister and Disaster (Fallon, F&F)
immersive Nintendo area to replace cheap looking KidZone
likely overhauls of Marvel and JP (including a new attraction for each)
whatever goes into the WnW area
And there's more they can do:
Fear Factor replacement
Shrek replacement
Mummy/E.T. upgrades
Seuss expansion
Potter 3.0
Something for Toon Lagoon
Something for Lost Continent
T2 upgrades or replacement
the MIB/Springfield expansion pad (insiders have said it should remain untouched for whatever happens with Nintendo)
eventual 3rd gate
Volcano Bay expansion
