sshindel's Epcot Manifesto

[sshindel]

I personally have had a connection to the pavilion because it's a staple in my childhood at Disney World. When every other major attraction at Epcot had a long line, we would come to WoL to experience the two major (and best, at the time) attractions in Epcot that was basically hidden and forgotten from public view. I was in love with the CC show, it was so addicting to watch when I was little and I have no idea why! We ironically must have always went to Epcot when WoL was open during seasonal operations I guess. Because I remember trips between 2004 and 2007.

Body Wars could have worked 10X better than it turned out if they had stuck to the original concept. It was supposed to be a roller coaster through the human body featuring various animatronic parts and whatnot. Even the original concept for Cranium Command would've been just as great as the one that turned out the way it did! Heck, I'm shocked that Disney's making Inside Out rather than using the concept of Cranium Command, TBH! CC had a source, a fan base and everything to make a great pixar movie! I'll be Inside Out will be magnificent nonetheless.. But it technically takes place in the mind, not the brain.

So could Buzzy be working at the control panel in the brain, and instead of the live-action celebrities from various body parts, have him trying to fix a problem with the mind on how to react to certain things?

Back on topic.. I agree with your post. That's probably all I really needed to say.

CC really was amazing. It was the true star of that pavilion. I loved the idea of Body Wars, but CC really shines as the most creative and enjoyable.
I also really loved how this pavilion was open, with many exhibits to wander back and forth between.
I think they are wasting a massive opportunity with that pavilion right now. It needs to reopen. It can be updated with almost no impact to visitors.

 

[Tiggerish]

Jiminy Christmas. I was just scrolling through how much you posted since I last read. I really might be commenting on this piecemeal for years. I was hoping it would go a bit slower than the PML thread. My pay is directly tied to getting some stuff done and since I tend to read magic at work and I have actual thoughts on the things your posting...........

All this time, I thought I was the only person who used the phrase "Jiminy Christmas"

<fist bump>

 

[Tiggerish]

I personally have had a connection to the pavilion because it's a staple in my childhood at Disney World. When every other major attraction at Epcot had a long line, we would come to WoL to experience the two major (and best, at the time) attractions in Epcot that was basically hidden and forgotten from public view. I was in love with the CC show, it was so addicting to watch when I was little and I have no idea why! We ironically must have always went to Epcot when WoL was open during seasonal operations I guess. Because I remember trips between 2004 and 2007.

Body Wars could have worked 10X better than it turned out if they had stuck to the original concept. It was supposed to be a roller coaster through the human body featuring various animatronic parts and whatnot. Even the original concept for Cranium Command would've been just as great as the one that turned out the way it did! Heck, I'm shocked that Disney's making Inside Out rather than using the concept of Cranium Command, TBH! CC had a source, a fan base and everything to make a great pixar movie! I'll be Inside Out will be magnificent nonetheless.. But it technically takes place in the mind, not the brain.

So could Buzzy be working at the control panel in the brain, and instead of the live-action celebrities from various body parts, have him trying to fix a problem with the mind on how to react to certain things?

Back on topic.. I agree with your post. That's probably all I really needed to say.

Animatronic body parts?? Paired with a roller coaster??? Forgive me, but that sounds kinda gross.

I do agree that the upcoming Inside Out could be a vehicle to kickstart the WoL pavilion and rescue it from festival center hell.

I love me both the F&G and F&W Fests, but am saddened by the loss of WoL to the festivals. They were best when they used Innoventions as festival space.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I am shocked that the Wonders of Life Pavilion has not been saved by one of the Nike, Gatorade, MLB or NFL. It seems like such a natural

 

[sshindel]

I am shocked that the Wonders of Life Pavilion has not been saved by one of the Nike, Gatorade, MLB or NFL. It seems like such a natural

This reminds me. I totally didn't talk about the sponsor model of Epcot! I need to do that! Maybe not while out in the rain at my kid's soccer game, but I think I'll dig into this later today.

 

[sshindel]

I'm very conflicted about the corporate sponsor model that Epcot uses to help fund some of their pavilions.

On the one hand, it is/was one of the key things from Walt's original vision that remained fairly in tact in the reinvention of his E.P.C.O.T idea. If you read my section on The Mission, or better yet, read a real writer's recent article on Esquire you know that part of the core tenants that he built his idea was included American industry being integrated into the community, working together to build the future. In this respect, the sponsor model really holds true to Walt. It is hard to argue to remove or change the sponsor model just for that reason alone.
Also, the original Epcot Center that I love so fondly employed this same model to great successes. The pavilions still were able to keep their wide-eyed idealism in tact and work well together with the sponsors to uphold the vision quite well. If you think of the original attractions, they were built mostly to be the attractions WDI wanted to build, and the companies were really only subtle or at the end. World of Motion had a big post-show car lot, Horizons basically just added GE at the very end of the narration. Most everything was subtle. Really, the biggest really in your face one that I felt stuck out as a kid was WoM. Hey, here are some of our current cars. The rest felt much more hidden to me. Remember, I don't base my posts off of true fact, mostly memory, so I could be wrong. Universe of Energy was pretty blatant as well, but at that time, oil/coal really was our main energy option, so Energy mostly = fossil fuels. Sad that it's still mostly true.

I'm just not sure if that model still works. I don't feel like the corporations today allow WDI to really do what THEY want to do without having to bend their vision to the will of the sponsor. When Kraft left for Nestle, Nestle didn't want remnants of Kraft products, so Kitchen Kabaret was scrapped for Food Rocks. Test Track is an ad for GM now rather than an exploration of transportation. Exxon really shaped all versions of Energy and thus it's still mostly a fossil fuel based attraction.

I just feel like today, companies are too protective of their brand to allow true innovation, or any sort of controversy. We'll never confront Climate Change with a corporate sponsor, not in Energy, not in The Land, not in Motion, nowhere. We'll not address healthy food habits when a chocolate company hosts The Land (and yes I know they do other food products).

Also, I think companies will interfere too much. Let's pretend Apple decides to sponsor a re-do of Imagination. Can't you hear them asking if Figment can be holding an iPad? That Dreamfinder's beard be trimmed up a little more Jobs-ish? Maybe can we make the Dream Vault look more like Cupertino? I mean, we're kings of innovation at Apple, so his headquarters should look like ours, right?

Sure, there are likely a few companies out there that might want to be hands off, for starters, but I think that they would be too hard to convince to come into Epcot anyway.

I think that it's time to remove most of the sponsors. I think that Innoventions East and West should both be filled with companies showing their products, as I've mentioned before. This is the center of the park. With the center oasis area semi-covered, lush, all of the entire center could easily feel very much like the heart of Future World, and if done right, would feel like a giant corporate showcase for new interesting technologies in all industries.

Then, let the other pavilions return to the ownership of Disney. Let Disney control the messages. And let Disney control them in a way that stays true to the mission of Epcot.

 

[marni1971]

I'd love to chime in but I don't have the few weeks I'd need

 

[sshindel]

I'd love to chime in but I don't have the few weeks I'd need

Slow and steady wins the race! Take your time. It took me a few months to write all of this nonsense anyway

 

[FigmentJedi]

Ok. I was always torn, because the original Imagination attraction was so near perfection, it felt like the easy way to go to just bring it back. I wanted something new and completely off the wall different, with the creative minds of Disney's various film and animation divisions kicking in to help.
But I think this would likely go over like a lead balloon if Dreamfinder and Figment were not involved.
Well, I guess here is my current idea.

For the main ride, let's just go ahead and bring back the original. Update the technology of course, but it really should have been a timeless attraction as it was, let's just bring it to modern day tech and bring it back.

Now, the compromise portion.

Since I gave up my creative minds idea, I'm using them here. I think Captain EO goes. I think the 3D/4D thing is kind of played out these days, so what's coming could use them, but don't need to.

I think that the theater becomes a showcase for short films from animators and film makers from all of the Disney studios. The short films can include the ones that precede movies, but I would prefer it if these short films were not widely released. They should be opportunities for the animators to develop their ideas without needing it tied to a major release.

They should come from animators from Pixar, Disney Animation Studios, Marvel, Lucasfilm, Makerstudios, etc...

The requirement should be that it fits the loose theme that it is imaginative.

It can be CGI, hand drawn, stop motion, live action. It can be 3D or 2D, can use the 4D features too. Just be a creative outlet for the creative people in the company.

Image Works should be reopened, maybe as Imagination Works. I think a simplified version of Renderman could be used to help people make very simple objects or animations. If the film studios have other tools that could become simplified interfaces, use them too.

Part of me wants the outdoors to be updated back to the 80s working state it was, but I think we could incorporate more green into the area as well. When I speak of The Land, I'll put out an idea of something that could go between Land and Imagination that could really bridge the gap and make an interesting transition.

So there we go. Dreamfinder is back, the blimp is back, One Little Spark is back to its original state. We have a theater that changes often, showcases the creativity of in house talent. We have a 2nd floor back open for more fun stuff to do.

I want stuff like this coming out all the time

I'm definitely digging that idea, particularly because the way I've been imagining a hypothetical Imagination movie for some time now has been something blending/showcasing all three of the primary animation mediums of 2D, CG and stop motion. Just depicting different realms FIgment and Dreamfinder travel through in distinctive ways.

 

[sshindel]

I'm definitely digging that idea, particularly because the way I've been imagining a hypothetical Imagination movie for some time now has been something blending/showcasing all three of the primary animation mediums of 2D, CG and stop motion. Just depicting different realms FIgment and Dreamfinder travel through in distinctive ways.

I think that if they asked their animators to come up with an ongoing series of films based on Figment and Dreamfinder, and then stepped away and let them create, it could be a great way to keep the pavilion fresh.
I'd love the idea of seeing different people's takes on that combo as well. Different animators, different styles, different ideas. It could be amazing.

 

[englanddg]

I think that if they asked their animators to come up with an ongoing series of films based on Figment and Dreamfinder, and then stepped away and let them create, it could be a great way to keep the pavilion fresh.
I'd love the idea of seeing different people's takes on that combo as well. Different animators, different styles, different ideas. It could be amazing.

An Animatrix style DVD with Dreamfinder and Figgy is one I'd snatch up in a heartbeat!

 

[sshindel]

An Animatrix style DVD with Dreamfinder and Figgy is one I'd snatch up in a heartbeat!

Exactly! That is a great way to describe what I was thinking!

I've wanted to check out the comic for a while now, but worry if I step on a comic shop again I won't be able to quit again. I went cold turkey a few years ago, and am afraid if I grab something again, it won't be long until I'm selling my kid's toys to try and afford my weekly "habit".

 

[FigmentJedi]

Exactly! That is a great way to describe what I was thinking!

I've wanted to check out the comic for a while now, but worry if I step on a comic shop again I won't be able to quit again. I went cold turkey a few years ago, and am afraid if I grab something again, it won't be long until I'm selling my kid's toys to try and afford my weekly "habit".

Could always get the hardcover in regular book shops like Barnes and Noble. Even has some great concept art from the original in the back.

 

[sshindel]

Could always get the hardcover in regular book shops like Barnes and Noble. Even has some great concept art from the original in the back.

I guess you are right. It's been out long enough to be collected into hardcover or trade paperback now hasn't it?

 

[FigmentJedi]

I guess you are right. It's been out long enough to be collected into hardcover or trade paperback now hasn't it?

Yeah, just came out near the start of May.

 

[sshindel]

You are quite correct that SSE does not need a major over haul. 90% of what needs to be done can be done in a audio studio. The last 10% is simply finishing the decent.

I was just going over this again and think how cheap this likely could get done. The new Cosmos series I think even did most of the work for us. We just need a licensing fee and maybe some screen technology.


I've listened to it again 2 times in a row and get chills every time.

 

[rkleinlein]

Spot on. Epcot was a park with an identity crisis the day it opened. Despite it's name, it was not an experimental prototype community of tomorrow, it was a theme park. Still, it was a different kind of theme park, one with an educational mission that was exciting and inspiring. Now that it has devolved into just a fun and entertainment theme park, the identity crisis even more blatant. But even so, there's nothing wrong with a theme park, even one that does not live up to Walt Disney's original vision. The problem with Epcot, concept and identity aside, is that what's left is not a very good theme park.

 

[sshindel]

Spot on. Epcot was a park with an identity crisis the day it opened. Despite it's name, it was not an experimental prototype community of tomorrow, it was a theme park. Still, it was a different kind of theme park, one with an educational mission that was exciting and inspiring. Now that it has devolved into just a fun and entertainment theme park, the identity crisis even more blatant. But even so, there's nothing wrong with a theme park, even one that does not live up to Walt Disney's original vision. The problem with Epcot, concept and identity aside, is that what's left is not a very good theme park.

I find it quite telling when talking to people about Epcot and I mention I don't spend more than a 1/2 day there anymore, they always mention how they "can spend 2 days eating and drinking in World Showcase".
They never mention Future World. They also never talk about the films or other exhibits in World Showcase. It's all about food and drink.
I have nothing against food and drink, and I enjoy the restaurants in Epcot.
But to think that most people pay to get into a theme park, and the reason they do so is to pay elevated prices to eat and drink, I scratch my head.
It just used to be more than that. It used to really mean something more than just a extraordinarily themed food court.

 

[EnergyKing]

I think the descending portion of Spaceship Earth is a perfect metaphor for what's wrong with WDW in general. Everything is now for the children. The powers that be are so terrified of any child being bored (a natural part of growing up) that they constantly have to throw in toys, something for the hands. Instead of letting a ride wash over you, and maybe even go over your head intellectually, inviting you to return later, it's instant gratification...here's something to play with...here's your goody bag...thanks parents, kindly step this way towards the gift shop.

 

[EnergyKing]

Oh, and that new Haunted Mansion cue...wasn't the original mounting dread part of the fun? No, it didn't have interactive walls!