Solar power farm coming to Disney

GeneralKnowledge

GeneralKnowledge

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
Okay One question, storage related. Any thoughts on the Tesla battery concept?
Click to expand...

I'll call it neat.

Since there are relatively few exciting prospects for game changing developments in the energy storage field in the near term future, Elon Musk has decided to focus his company's efforts on mass producing current technology in an effort to drive down costs. In Steve Jobs fashion, he is putting existing tech in a beautiful package, both in cars and battery storage in order to get people to pay attention.

That said if you live in a place with time of day electric rates, you can save a bundle with the battery storage system by buying during off peak times and saving it to use when the price goes up at different times of day. The savings could be quite dramatic for businesses. That will be one big market for these. If they can make it an affordable way to compensate for demand spikes on a large scale, utility companies will buy as well, but again this isn't dramatically new tech so I have tempered expectations for that.

As for their cars, I think theyre great. If I was in the market for a $100,000 car and I owned 2 cars I would buy one in a heartbeat. I look forward to seeing their more budget friendly options.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
englanddg said:
btw...THIS is a lithium mine.

openpitconveyor.jpg


article-1166387-03D2ECEB000005DC-116_634x383.jpg


And, it's extremely toxic.

So, the next time you look at your "green iPhone"...remember, this is the element that needs to be mined to make it last for a day before needing a recharge.

And, the next time you drive your Tesla, and think how green it is...remember, it uses not only materials (lots of material) from these sorts of mines, but recharges from mines (in most of the US) that look like this.

Strip_coal_mining.jpg


"Green", eh? :p
Click to expand...
:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop::hungover:
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
GeneralKnowledge said:
Since there are relatively few exciting prospects for game changing developments in the energy storage field in the near term future, Elon Musk has decided to focus his company's efforts on mass producing current technology in an effort to drive down costs. In Steve Jobs fashion, he is putting existing tech in a beautiful package, both in cars and battery storage in order to get people to pay attention.
Click to expand...
You summed it up so well I had to quote it just to give it recognition.

This is exactly spot on. And, exactly what Musk is doing.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Bob said:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth
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I mentioned China, but wasn't even going to go there.

Yeah, their lithium and other mines are disgusting. They have enough land that they assume they can destroy as much of it as they can for short term gain.

They do not have the "enlightened western" view of pollution that our green politics in the west does. As long as our checks clear, they'll sell us whatever we want.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Bob said:
I'd go with the Germans.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUSBRE84P0FI20120526
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It's been a bit, but iirc, they use a distributed grid. Same as we are attempting in Hawaii.

The real issue is how the larger companies manage the flow.

As I noted, generation isn't the issue, but the common consumer assumes that generating electricity is like pumping gas...when it isn't.

We don't have energon cubes (unfortunately).

soundwave-makes-energon-cubes-o.gif


Rather, our grid needs to be able to route input sources to output sources efficiently, and that's just not how they were originally designed (and understandably so).

That said, Germany is a terrible example, due to their geographic vs economic constraints. Germany is about the same size as the SE or NE US (take your pick), yet enjoys a much larger average population density.

Oh, I could go on about this, it's a topic that greatly interests me, but I'll leave it here...there's a reason why they can make systems like this work. But, it is more complex than political will.
 
Bob

Bob

B00b
Premium Member
englanddg said:
It's been a bit, but iirc, they use a distributed grid. Same as we are attempting in Hawaii.

The real issue is how the larger companies manage the flow.

As I noted, generation isn't the issue, but the common consumer assumes that generating electricity is like pumping gas...when it isn't.

We don't have energon cubes (unfortunately).

soundwave-makes-energon-cubes-o.gif


Rather, our grid needs to be able to route input sources to output sources efficiently, and that's just not how they were originally designed (and understandably so).

That said, Germany is a terrible example, due to their geographic vs economic constraints. Germany is about the same size as the SE or NE US (take your pick), yet enjoys a much larger average population density.

Oh, I could go on about this, it's a topic that greatly interests me, but I'll leave it here...there's a reason why they can make systems like this work. But, it is more complex than political will.
Click to expand...
Hawaii is running to issues with their electric utilities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/solar-hawaii_n_4101425.html
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Bob said:
Hawaii is running to issues with their electric utilities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/solar-hawaii_n_4101425.html
Click to expand...
Yeah, grid.

The links I posted touched on that building problem.

There was actually an article I read last week that I was trying to dig up that spoke just that (wasn't huffington, but said pretty much the same as that one)...

Basically, a lot of personal investments were made in "green tech" (with tax breaks and the like, so that means OUR collective money went into it as well) and the power company wasn't ready for the influx.

Also, those consumers weren't correctly prepared (as cost models were not run accurately) for what they need to pay for non-generation grid use.

Again, back to grid and flow.

For example, you may have a house with solar panels, but at night your house isn't producing anything, and during cloudy days, it's not producing much (or anything), and some of that also depends on how you maintain those cell arrays.

And, lets face it, most homeowners are gonna view them like roof tiles. They ain't gonna clean them. Or if they do they get the every three year power wash like the gutters do.

So, when you are pulling in more than you generate off hours...a simple credit for generation during peak performance hours isn't the best billing method.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Reading the Huffington article, I will say one thing...

Solar executives have made a ton of money selling people on "going off grid" without explaining what that means. However, the local power company is also at fault for buying into the distributed grid (and therefore lower centralized production cost).

It's two groups, neither of which have the consumer's best interest in mind.

That said. Can you go off grid? Yes. Can you go quasi-grid? Yes. Just, if the person selling it to you uses the terms "green" and it doesn't mean bottom dollar investment and return with realistic results, you should turn the cheek...cause you are about to get ripped off.

That's my opine.

The simple fact is, you'll spend more on "greening" your house unless you go completely off grid, in most cases.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
englanddg said:
Reading the Huffington article, I will say one thing...

Solar executives have made a ton of money selling people on "going off grid" without explaining what that means. However, the local power company is also at fault for buying into the distributed grid (and therefore lower centralized production cost).

It's two groups, neither of which have the consumer's best interest in mind.

That said. Can you go off grid? Yes. Can you go quasi-grid? Yes. Just, if the person selling it to you uses the terms "green" and it doesn't mean bottom dollar investment and return with realistic results, you should turn the cheek...cause you are about to get ripped off.

That's my opine.

The simple fact is, you'll spend more on "greening" your house unless you go completely off grid, in most cases.
Click to expand...

Side note. Florida made it illegal to go completely off-grid.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Not to get all Disney....but there is actually a really good game right after SSE that demonstrates how the grid works decently...

It's far from accurate, but that shuffleboard game is really a decent representation of how control systems work.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
englanddg said:
Well, Florida and other states have also said that if you don't have air conditioning, it's considered child abuse, and the state can take your children.

We as a society are gradually going insane.
Click to expand...

Kind of makes people who go off and live in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, off grid, look very appealing.

I'd consider it if I was wealthy enough.
 

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