Orange Bird Back at Sunshine Tree Terrace in the Magic Kingdom!

[MichWolv]

Those little things are good when they are genuine. This however, seems to have been conjured up simply to sell things to the "super fans". REAL details do not have to be rammed down people throats like this is.

This is being "Rammed"? Because the blog posted about it and because they are selling cups and shirts? Are they ramming dole whips down our throats as well (well, I guess dole whips are supposed to be rammed down throats, but you know what I mean!)?

Little things like this are what the blog is perfect for. It's a change that doesn't merit a big press release, but still something that it's nice to tell people about.

Still, the fact that this is considered a big deal says a lot.

It's a nice little niche thing, in reality.

A nice little niche thing is a perfect description. I don't see that it is being "considered a big deal". It isn't. But it's nice.

Bingo.

A new attraction is a big deal.

A new fireworks show is a big deal.

A 12-month refurb of a classic E-ticket is a big deal.

I know big deals, and Senator, this is no big deal.

Indeed. Not a big deal. But still nice.

 

[ptaylor]

This is being "Rammed"? Because the blog posted about it and because they are selling cups and shirts? Are they ramming dole whips down our throats as well (well, I guess dole whips are supposed to be rammed down throats, but you know what I mean!)?

Little things like this are what the blog is perfect for. It's a change that doesn't merit a big press release, but still something that it's nice to tell people about.
.

Sorry, I should have stated that I was referring to the broader Social Media hype of this. The social media Imagineers have been banging away at this for months on Twitter, and lapped up and rebroadcast by the super fans.

 

[misterID]

Disney is in a position they've placed themselves in. When it's "declined by degrees" it's going to take a while to gain peoples trust. When you look over at California how they repair things they've messed up... Bringing back an orange bird is nice. It's not a big deal.

It's a big deal with people that the orange bird meant something to from the beginning and that's not a whole lot.

Again, I like it. It's a nice thing. Lets not make it something that it isn't. Anything retro they can sell has been the latest trend lately. It doesn't say that much about improving by degrees.

 

[ptaylor]

The Sunshine Tree Terrace continues to receive love!

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/bl...turns-to-adventureland-at-magic-kingdom-park/

I've compiled an article with links to a lot of sources discussing the Orange Bird (Progress City USA, ImagineeringDisney.com, etc) along with my reaction. All of this should sum up why this is a "big deal" and not just pandering to increase merchandise sales:

I might have known this would end up with you once again promoting your own blog on the back of this. The wonderful world of social media.

 

[WDWFigment]

I might have known this would end up with you once again promoting your own blog on the back of this. The wonderful world of social media.

I'll happily edit out my own site and only include the sources I think cover the history of the Sunshine pavilion nicely.

 

[Atomicmickey]

I might have known this would end up with you once again promoting your own blog on the back of this. The wonderful world of social media.

Um, if the person in question hadn't been here long before blogging, with almost 6,000 posts, well, you might have a tiny point. But, c'mon. Lighten up.

*no reason to defend except to call out nastiness for no reason*

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Still nice to see a bit of Nostalgia come back to MK..
Be even better if Dreamfinder comes back to Epcot....

 

[lazyboy97o]

So the "Disney Details" are not a big deal? Walt Disney World's history is not a big deal?

I guess I strongly disagree with you.

Not everything is going to be a new E-Ticket or new land. Disney could have released some new merchandise and called it a day. Instead, they've spent some time restoring Sunshine Tree Terrace (not just the Orange Bird, either) and have paid homage to something distinctly "Walt Disney World."

If seeing these positive changes and increase in details isn't important, I'm not sure I understand what is important. We make such a big deal about "Declining by Degrees," yet we refuse to acknowledge "Improving by Degrees."

Disney is really in a no-win position with so many in the fan community.

Truly, the jaded individuals are just as bad (and their own worst enemy) as the "pixie dust snorters."

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

 

[ptaylor]

Um, if the person in question hadn't been here long before blogging, with almost 6,000 posts, well, you might have a tiny point. But, c'mon. Lighten up.

*no reason to defend except to call out nastiness for no reason*

Since the explosion of blogs, people now post links to their sites on forums to increase the search engine visibility and ranking. If the poster really wanted to talk about this, wouldn't the actual post be here on the forum? But instead, it is a link to an external site. This is not fair to WDWMAGIC, as people are using the WDWMAGIC forum as a search engine booster for their own sites. If someone wants to say something, say it here, rather than linking to their own site.

 

[MichWolv]

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

I can see this view. That is, that the orange bird was never part of a narrative -- he was always just a character to sell stuff, and now that he's back, he's doing the same thing. I don't see it that way, but I can understand it.

 

[ptaylor]

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

Very true, and well put.

 

[Atomicmickey]

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

This is an interesting point. I'd call it a "meta-detail", in that yes, the Bird takes us out of "Adventureland" and places us in "1971WaltDisneyWorldLand".

However, a person could choose to celebrate that, as opposed to calling it
"fake as a fake". I'm not running your point of view down at all--it really has some meat to it. I'm saying that it is a legitimate debate, as to what purpose theming is used in an environment such as this. Is a "meta-theme" appropriate--here, or ever?

For example. Some have denigrated Animal Kingdom as being "too real", where the theming becomes a sort of "reality immersion"--pointing out that never before had it been done in that way. Personally, I love the fact that a 360 degree spin in Africa and Asia can give one the impression that you're actually there. But I do understand there's a distinction between that and the way that Disney has themed other lands. Not quite as immersive--and yes, a bit more "meta". Which is better? Who is to say?

Ultimately, it's a conscious design choice--as I believe it is here, to add the patina of park history to the area. Another example might be the windows on Main Street. True theming might have eschewed the little insider nods to the Imagineers--and the conceit that they are "credits" in an "opening sequence or closing sequence" is another meta-theming nod to the fact that "we're not really on Main Street, we're on a promenade in a Disney Theme park.

I guess it depends on which lenses you choose to put on while strolling the parks. I personally find myself flipping back and forth all the time.

Hidden Mickeys? In Frontierland. Same thing.

Thanks for this point. I think it's good to think about this stuff in this way--and you know, with every design choice that WDI makes, I think they need to straddle that line, sometimes a bit this way, sometimes a bit that way.

For this reason, I choose to celebrate this--even while thinking in large part as you do as I stroll the park.

 

[WDWFigment]

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

You have a point there. I suppose, what I mean is that we treat the declining by degrees as a big deal (fairly enough, I think). If there is something wrong, even if minor, it is often treated as a huge issue by fans. I don't see a problem with this as I think it creates a "check" on Disney.

My general point is that the little things add up (both bad and good). Details are what keeps me coming back to Disney, and it has been sad that in recent years a lot of details that might be perceived as "fat" have been trimmed from the parks. When I see things like this done to restore some of (what I perceive to be) these details or richness back to the park, I see that as a step in the right direction.

With regard to what is or is not a good detail, I suppose I'm a simpleton. I like characters like Sonny Eclipse, Lagoona Gator, Ice Gator, Figment, and Orange Bird that give WDW its own richness and character. I understand your point about details that develop theme versus those that break it, but at the end of the day, it's still a theme park. I'm willing to accept a certain amount of theme breaking "detail" that I feel enhances the overall experience.

That's just me, though. :shrug:

 

[WDWFigment]

Since the explosion of blogs, people now post links to their sites on forums to increase the search engine visibility and ranking. If the poster really wanted to talk about this, wouldn't the actual post be here on the forum? But instead, it is a link to an external site. This is not fair to WDWMAGIC, as people are using the WDWMAGIC forum as a search engine booster for their own sites. If someone wants to say something, say it here, rather than linking to their own site.

That's a fair-enough point.

If my goal were merely increasing my SEO, I'd drop links and run. However, I continually engage in long discussion here without any discernible benefit to myself. You're right, I have posted links to my own site here in the past, but the vast majority of my posts have been thoughtful contributions (well, at least I'd like to think) that add to the dialogue.

I'd rather that not distract from my whole point of posting this thread, which was to discuss what I think is a positive addition to WDW, so I've removed the offensive link from the original post.

This is an interesting point. I'd call it a "meta-detail", in that yes, the Bird takes us out of "Adventureland" and places us in "1971WaltDisneyWorldLand".

However, a person could choose to celebrate that, as opposed to calling it
"fake as a fake". I'm not running your point of view down at all--it really has some meat to it. I'm saying that it is a legitimate debate, as to what purpose theming is used in an environment such as this. Is a "meta-theme" appropriate--here, or ever?

For example. Some have denigrated Animal Kingdom as being "too real", where the theming becomes a sort of "reality immersion"--pointing out that never before had it been done in that way. Personally, I love the fact that a 360 degree spin in Africa and Asia can give one the impression that you're actually there. But I do understand there's a distinction between that and the way that Disney has themed other lands. Not quite as immersive--and yes, a bit more "meta". Which is better? Who is to say?

Ultimately, it's a conscious design choice--as I believe it is here, to add the patina of park history to the area. Another example might be the windows on Main Street. True theming might have eschewed the little insider nods to the Imagineers--and the conceit that they are "credits" in an "opening sequence or closing sequence" is another meta-theming nod to the fact that "we're not really on Main Street, we're on a promenade in a Disney Theme park.

I guess it depends on which lenses you choose to put on while strolling the parks. I personally find myself flipping back and forth all the time.

Hidden Mickeys? In Frontierland. Same thing.

Thanks for this point. I think it's good to think about this stuff in this way--and you know, with every design choice that WDI makes, I think they need to straddle that line, sometimes a bit this way, sometimes a bit that way.

For this reason, I choose to celebrate this--even while thinking in large part as you do as I stroll the park.

Well put.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I like it. Glad to see the Orange Bird back at the Magic Kingdom.

If there was a meeting and someone asked, "What do you think about bringing back the 70s Orange Bird to the park?" and someone gave it the green light, then yay for that. :king:

 

[tirian]

The Orange Bird restores WDW's unique texture, its history, one of the small things that separates it from generic Disney Parks. The merchandise is obviously overdone (when isn't it?), but restoring part of WDW's history is something for fans to enjoy, regardless of how small the gesture may be.

Selling Horizons and Journey into Imagination merchandise is borderline offensive and panders to fanboys because those attractions will never return. In this case, the Orange Bird has returned. Why would anyone complain about that? :shrug:

 

[MichWolv]

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

Just thinking about this further. Disneyland's fireworks show "Remember Dreams Come True" is widely loved. The entire show is, however, self-referential, celebrating the history of Disneyland. It has clips from rides that no longer exist, like Adventure through Innerspace. So we do celebrate self-referential stuff in Disney parks -- we loved the Epcot 25 gallery as well.

 

[WDWFigment]

The Orange Bird restores WDW's unique texture, its history, one of the small things that separates it from generic Disney Parks. The merchandise is obviously overdone (when isn't it?), but restoring part of WDW's history is something for fans to enjoy, regardless of how small the gesture may be.

Selling Horizons and Journey into Imagination merchandise is borderline offensive and panders to fanboys because those attractions will never return. In this case, the Orange Bird has returned. Why would anyone complain about that? :shrug:

Whoa, haven't heard from you in a while!

Anyway, as you probably read above, I agree with this completely.

Except, perhaps, the second paragraph. Maybe I'm eternally (overly) optimistic, but I hold out hope that perhaps if there is enough positive feedback and buzz generated by the Dreamfinder merchandise, that maybe someday he'll return in a meaningful way.

I mean, at one point Orange Bird had to have just been a way to sell merchandise with no plan for being restored to the park, right? Who is to say that lightning couldn't strike twice?

Horizons, on the other hand, I don't see ever coming back. I still don't take offense to its merchandise being sold, but it in no way makes me optimistic. More disappointed, if anything.

 

[Bolna]

If it is an "improvement by degrees," then by its definition, just as with the losses, the single item is not a big deal.

The Orange Bird itself is not a detail. It is not something insignificant that helps to build up the reality of a larger whole. It is an end of itself that no longer even has its original meaning. It has become self-referential and that is bad for details because it is an acknowledgement that it is all fake. The theme ceases to be the creation of this other place, and becomes a constant acknowledgement of the fake as a fake.

Very well said.

 

[drew81]

I guess they couldn't make or get the orange bird character costume for this little shindig though

I couldn't see the old Orange Bird coming back for meet 'n greets. He would need to be redesigned for park appearances.

If they bring back the character, would the Orange Bird allowed to be "mobbed" or will it be a "meet and greet" setting?

It would be a controlled meet 'n greet experience. Rarely are characters allowed to go off by themself at WDW.