Knott's Berry Farm (Cedar Fair) and Magic Mountain (Six Flags) Merging

[PiratesMansion]

What does this mean for The Peanuts Characters since they served as official mascots for Cedar Fair?

Hard to say.

When Cedar Fair bought out Paramount Parks in 2006, they threw out all of the licensing agreements those parks had-Paramount movie themes, naturally, but also what seemed on paper to be a very hip, lucrative Nickelodeon license-in favor of status quo Peanuts characters.

Of course, much has changed about the company since then, so perhaps the current set of leaders would be more open to the Looney Tunes and DC licenses associated with Six Flags.

There's no way the new company will keep Looney Tunes AND Peanuts long term-and this is where my own history with companies comes into play and makes it hard. I don't want to see Knott's without Peanuts, BUT my homepark for most of my life was Six Flags Great America, which was originally a Marriott park, and it was Marriott who originally picked up the option to use Looney Tunes in the parks, which Six Flags later grabbed when they bought SFGAm in 84. So that has personal meaning for me too.

Is one license clearly more valuable over the other in 2023? To the average consumer, probably not.

I'd imagine they'd be more likely to stick with Peanuts simply because CF is nominally calling the shots, and for them it would be status quo to keep Peanuts around, but who really knows. The only thing certain is that I personally will be unhappy regardless of what decision is made.

 

[Twilight_Roxas]

What does this mean for The Peanuts Characters since they served as official mascots for Cedar Fair?

Be meet & greets with Looney Tunes characters.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I do wonder a few things, firstly, it's interesting to adopt the Six Flags brand (even if it's more recognizable) because of very low public opinion.

That and the potential for controversy with the name would leave me to agree. No major park outside of Texas would fly the original “6 Flags” anymore in 2023.

What does this mean for The Peanuts Characters since they served as official mascots for Cedar Fair?

I actually wonder if the new Six Flags brand might not try to sell back the terms of their lease with Warner to liquidate back some revenue from the major debt on this deal.

Additionally if Warner gains back domestic theme park rights to the Looney Toons/DC brand this could make them a more valuable acquisition target for a rumored Comcast/Universal purchase.

 

[networkpro]

If the new organization can't fix the teen/young adult issues that plague most of the Six Flags parks, the children's characters won't be worth much as families will stay away.

 

[PiratesMansion]

That and the potential for controversy with the name would leave me to agree. No major park outside of Texas would fly the original “6 Flags” anymore in 2023.

I actually wonder if the new Six Flags brand might not try to sell back the terms of their lease with Warner to liquidate back some revenue from the major debt on this deal.

Additionally if Warner gains back domestic theme park rights to the Looney Toons/DC brand this could make them a more valuable acquisition target for a rumored Comcast/Universal purchase.

IF the Six Flags name is controversial for most people, it'd be because of brand reputation, not because most people have any idea where the name "Six Flags" came from. At any rate, as no parks fly the old flags anymore (and none of them except for the OG Six Flags parks ever flew that particular flag to begin with) and there are no longer Confederate sections in the parks, I feel like most people would consider that a settled issue.

What do you mean by 'lease with Warner'? Warner Brothers hasn't been involved with the parks since the Six Flags chain was sold to Premier Parks in 1998.

I don't think anyone other than animation fans care about Looney Toons in 2023. When I was growing up, they were all over TV; now, I'd wager most kids don't know the majority of the characters. The DC brand might be a bit more lucrative, but given that Warner Bros. doesn't currently appear to have any interest in running theme parks themselves, I figure they probably don't care as long as they get a licensing check from someone or other.

If the new organization can't fix the teen/young adult issues that plague most of the Six Flags parks, the children's characters won't be worth much as families will stay away.

This is hardly a Six Flags exclusive problem, and they're not the brand in this deal with prominent chaperone policies. Six Flags has also never had grown adults climb drop towers at their parks before. SF and CF are more alike than is commonly acknowledged here.

I don't think any child actually cares about Looney Tunes OR Peanuts in 2023, and the argument could be made that the success of the Peanuts areas in the former Paramount Parks, after they had formerly been more-marketable-on-paper Nickelodeon areas, proves that it doesn't really matter what IP the kids area is themed after, because kids will come regardless.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

IF the Six Flags name is controversial for most people, it'd be because of brand reputation, not because most people have any idea where the name "Six Flags" came from. At any rate, as no parks fly the old flags anymore (and none of them except for the OG Six Flags parks ever flew that particular flag to begin with) and there are no longer Confederate sections in the parks, I feel like most people would consider that a settled issue.

What do you mean by 'lease with Warner'? Warner Brothers hasn't been involved with the parks since the Six Flags chain was sold to Premier Parks in 1998.

I don't think anyone other than animation fans care about Looney Toons in 2023. When I was growing up, they were all over TV; now, I'd wager most kids don't know the majority of the characters. The DC brand might be a bit more lucrative, but given that Warner Bros. doesn't currently appear to have any interest in running theme parks themselves, I figure they probably don't care as long as they get a licensing check from someone or other.


This is hardly a Six Flags exclusive problem, and they're not the brand in this deal with prominent chaperone policies. Six Flags has also never had grown adults climb drop towers at their parks before. SF and CF are more alike than is commonly acknowledged here.

I don't think any child actually cares about Looney Tunes OR Peanuts in 2023, and the argument could be made that the success of the Peanuts areas in the former Paramount Parks, after they had formerly been more-marketable-on-paper Nickelodeon areas, proves that it doesn't really matter what IP the kids area is themed after, because kids will come regardless.

On the Six Flags brand: I agree brand erosion is a bigger issue but my point is even to spend marketing dollars refresh the new brand seems pointless since no one associates 6 Flags with the original brand which was uniquely Texan inspired, and it’s likely not a history worth tying themselves for a broad contemporary domestic brand to when given an option. I’d argue Cedar point is still the premiere “brand park” in the new combined chain of this goes through as planned.

Dropping 6 Flags makes the most sense to me since it’s an antiquated name built around a series of themes that really no longer exist in any of their for a variety of reasons. What would be the point of renaming the parks “Six Flags over Sandusky” or “Six Flags over Buena Park” when these parks still have their own unique themes and cultures?

My only speculation on the Warner properties is if they aren’t in active use will the new combined company see value in keeping them or would Warner prefer to get these domestic theme park rights back?

 

[Phroobar]

Would it have been better for Disney to buy Knotts from the family instead of Cedar Fair?

 

[PiratesMansion]

Dropping 6 Flags makes the most sense to me since it’s an antiquated name built around a series of themes that really no longer exist in any of their for a variety of reasons. What would be the point of renaming the parks “Six Flags over Sandusky” or “Six Flags over Buena Park” when these parks still have their own unique themes and cultures?

The "value" of rebranding would definitely vary. There's no benefit of attaching Six Flags to the CF parks in Ohio-too many toxic associations with the failed Geauga Lake. In markets with current CF and SF parks close to each other, like SoCal, NorCal, and Virginia/DC (assuming they're allowed to keep both parks in each scenario), branding the CF parks to Six Flags would just create confusion.

But if they think Six Flags Valleyfair or Six Flags Michigan's Adventure will result in an attendance boost, they may well do that. It's not like those parks are in line for a new coaster anytime soon anyway-so if they can get a buzz by changing the sign out front, I imagine they'd be tempted to do it.

My only speculation on the Warner properties is if they aren’t in active use will the new combined company see value in keeping them or would Warner prefer to get these domestic theme park rights back?

I don't think Warner Bros. much cares about domestic theme park use of its properties. It has started or been attached to-but since been extracted from-parks or park chains in the US, Europe, and Australia. So I think the interest from Warner itself, in terms of them wanting their own properties for a park of their own, and assuming things stay as they are now, is non-existent.

Now, if WB merges with Universal, that's perhaps a different story, but I'm not anticipating that for a few reasons:
1.) The existing Marvel licensing agreement in Florida is beneficial for both Disney and Universal. I don't feel like either company is eager to change the arrangement that stands, nor would either company much benefit from such a change.
2.) DC (and Looney Tunes) have been associated with Six Flags for so long that I don't know if, say, USH would benefit from trotting them out on its own property. Not quite the same situation, but it reminds me a bit of when Cedar Fair was going to send Demon Drop from Cedar Point to Knott's-only to receive an onslaught of pushback from Californians that they didn't want Knott's to get a ride that Magic Mountain had not only had for a long time, but had just removed. I feel like it would result in, for lack of a better term, a sort of 'branding dissonance'.

I expect there's a decent chance Looney Tunes would be dropped after the deal goes through, but DC has done good things for Six Flags over the years. Then again, old guard CF leadership ditched Nickelodeon when they had the chance to renew or expand its usage, so perhaps they'll do the same this time too.

Would it have been better for Disney to buy Knotts from the family instead of Cedar Fair?

Doubtful, unless you believe Knott's Berry Farm as it exists today would be improved by, say, turning the Calico Mine Ride into a slow dark ride version of Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.

Whether the park was sold to Cedar Fair or Disney, sooner or later it would have been mucked with.