Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Laketravis]

Today is a Crowd Level 4 day at AK - yet EE has a posted 55 minute standby, FoP is 140. LL for FoP is $22 per person.

Can only imagine what standby would be of there were actually people in the park.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Just don't book the Prima.... horrible ship. Almost made me swear off cruises forever.

I have had really good luck with the Royal Caribbean Group of companies. I've sailed on the Symphony, the Wonder and the Anthem of the Seas for Royal Caribbean. My usual go to is Celebrity, and I have been on quite a few of their ships, the Millennium, the Summit, the Equinox, the Beyond, the Apex and later this year the Constellation. I have been on the Apex a few times, as it seems to keep going to the ports I want to see! I hope that you will get to try some of these ships in the future, they are really lovely. Marie

 

[Laketravis]

I have had really good luck with the Royal Caribbean Group of companies. I've sailed on the Symphony, the Wonder and the Anthem of the Seas for Royal Caribbean. My usual go to is Celebrity, and I have been on quite a few of their ships, the Millennium, the Summit, the Equinox, the Beyond, the Apex and later this year the Constellation. I have been on the Apex a few times, as it seems to keep going to the ports I want to see! I hope that you will get to try some of these ships in the future, they are really lovely. Marie

I agree. I've really enjoyed RCL. Even Carnival. But I won't do NCL again.

 

[Tha Realest]

Sounds like unprecedented demand that will last forever...

The cruise industry isn't at all financially volatile is it? Asking for a friend.

It is kind of wild four years after Covid that the cruise industry, of all things, has shown it to be one of the more resilient of TWDC’s portfolio.

 

[CastAStone]

It is kind of wild four years after Covid that the cruise industry, of all things, has shown it to be one of the more resilient of TWDC’s portfolio.

Sometimes I think about how during Covid, Carnival scrapped 5 old but perfectly good ships, assuming the business was headed for a sustained downturn.

 

[monothingie]

It is kind of wild four years after Covid that the cruise industry, of all things, has shown it to be one of the more resilient of TWDC’s portfolio.

Cruises are typically booked a year or more in advance. What you're seeing now is peak cruise travel and bookings and prices. These prices industry wide are quickly approaching an unsustainable point where some type of correction will occur.

DCL is in a bad spot here because, as typical of Disney, they are not in an ideal position to adapt to any correction. Not that the others won't be impacted, but a slow down in demand, especially at the price point Disney commands will hurt them.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I agree. I've really enjoyed RCL. Even Carnival. But I won't do NCL again.

I haven't been on NCL at all but one of the other agents that I am friends with, Gloria has and she wasn't wild about it. She is a big fan of Celebrity and will usually choose that, if possible. Royal is good for her as well. We both like Disney as well, but the cabin configuration makes it not so easy to share a cabin with a platonic friend, as the one main bed doesnt split into two twins like all of the other lines out there so someone has to sleep on a couch bed. I'm sure it is fine for a night or two but after that I'm not sure my old bones would be so appreciative of that. So unless we each feel like booking our own room with the single supplement ($$$) which I will still do on occasion as I do like DCL, I have tended to book Royal or Celebrity for my own travels. Marie

 

[Lilofan]

Today is a Crowd Level 4 day at AK - yet EE has a posted 55 minute standby, FoP is 140. LL for FoP is $22 per person.

Can only imagine what standby would be of there were actually people in the park.

Good thing interior queue bathrooms were built at Flight of Passage with a 140min wait. Peoples bladders are thankful.

 

[Laketravis]

Good thing interior queue bathrooms were built at Flight of Passage with a 140min wait. Peoples bladders are thankful.

That posted wait is now 160 minutes.

EE was 55 when we entered. Actual was 22. The posted was down to 30 when we boarded.

 

[GhostHost1000]

That posted wait is now 160 minutes.

EE was 55 when we entered. Actual was 22. The posted was down to 30 when we boarded.

I've been hearing a lot about inflation...and it's not just the prices of things

 

[BrianLo]

It’s not just Disney seeing cruise bookings surge.

Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, and Carnival each reported all time record levels of forward booking in their most recent earnings calls.

Norwegian is so booked up that it literally broke their occupancy metric; they’re reporting >100% occupancy.

Cruise lines report their occupancy metrics differently than hotels and always have. The occupancy is set on double occupancy, but is less than its maximal occupancy (ie third and fourth guests in rooms). It’s actually expected for operators to have >100% occupancy, they all do.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I've been hearing a lot about inflation...and it's not just the prices of things

I could a few things:
The system that calculates the posted wait time is totally broken.
Disney intentionally inflates the posted times so folks feel good when the wait time is shorter.
Disney intentionally inflates the posted times to drive up Genie+ and ILL sales.

 

[BrianLo]

Just don't book the Prima.... horrible ship. Almost made me swear off cruises forever.

I’m on Viva right now… I like it, but it’s the same flaws that DCL Wish has. Trying to load a medium sized ship with too many venues to keep up with the big ships. It results in micro venues that struggle to correctly spread guests around.

I wouldn’t say it’s horrible, but it requires some planning. Which I know people have strong opinions on.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I could a few things:
The system that calculates the posted wait time is totally broken.
Disney intentionally inflates the posted times so folks feel good when the wait time is shorter.
Disney intentionally inflates the posted times to drive up Genie+ and ILL sales.

All the above

 

[BrianLo]

Cruises are typically booked a year or more in advance. What you're seeing now is peak cruise travel and bookings and prices. These prices industry wide are quickly approaching an unsustainable point where some type of correction will occur.

DCL is in a bad spot here because, as typical of Disney, they are not in an ideal position to adapt to any correction. Not that the others won't be impacted, but a slow down in demand, especially at the price point Disney commands will hurt them.

Cruising is still (outside of DCL) quite underpriced for the product compared to land vacations. I know cruising is experiencing pent up demand, but it’s also experiencing discovery by a new demographic. Supposedly millennials made up more than half of RCL occupancy. So I think some of it is actually going to be driven by a sustained new customer base moving forward.

Millennials have dominated the parks for a while now, they aren’t coming to save them.


Now DCL on the other hand is so freaking niche I’m not sure if they’ve properly even tapped their market. RCL is basically adding as much capacity to Orlando in the next 16 months that dwarfs the entirety of the current DCL occupancy. Disney is literally missing the boat on the market if they don’t hurry up and order more vessels.

 

[Touchdown]

All the above

And DAS overuse, which will hopefully be fixed in a month.

 

[monothingie]

Cruising is still (outside of DCL) quite underpriced for the product compared to land vacations. I know cruising is experiencing pent up demand, but it’s also experiencing discovery by a new demographic. Supposedly millennials made up more than half of RCL occupancy. So I think some of it is actually going to be driven by a sustained new customer base moving forward.

Millennials have dominated the parks for a while now, they aren’t coming to save them.

If you're looking at base cruising fares, (Inside Room, No Specialty Restaurants, No Drinks, No Drink Plan, No Dining Plan, No extras) then I would agree with you. You can get on a week long cruise on a new ship for under $1K.

Where the craziness starts to come in is with the upcharges. $uites, Drinks, Specialty Dining, Shore excursion, On board extras, all add up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Today is a Crowd Level 4 day at AK - yet EE has a posted 55 minute standby, FoP is 140. LL for FoP is $22 per person.

Can only imagine what standby would be of there were actually people in the park.

Haven’t they done a masterful job of encouraging people to travel and drop $10,000 a week on that?

Iger should give half his salary to Michael Eisner…because without dvc in Florida the parks would be in series financial distress - which means all of Disney would be - and the management would have been fired 3x over.

I have had really good luck with the Royal Caribbean Group of companies. I've sailed on the Symphony, the Wonder and the Anthem of the Seas for Royal Caribbean. My usual go to is Celebrity, and I have been on quite a few of their ships, the Millennium, the Summit, the Equinox, the Beyond, the Apex and later this year the Constellation. I have been on the Apex a few times, as it seems to keep going to the ports I want to see! I hope that you will get to try some of these ships in the future, they are really lovely. Marie

We’re up to 78? I think nights on Royal and 12 on celebrity…7 more on deck in August.

From my first on voyager…to the last 10 years of mega ships…I continue to appreciate them more.

Gotta be honest…my 3 runs on dcl diminished over time. Was very impressed with magic in 1999….slightly less with wonder around 2006 and very meh on dream in 2014. They haven’t given me anything sort of an incentive to go again. Second fiddle. Just my opinion

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cruising is still (outside of DCL) quite underpriced for the product compared to land vacations. I know cruising is experiencing pent up demand, but it’s also experiencing discovery by a new demographic. Supposedly millennials made up more than half of RCL occupancy. So I think some of it is actually going to be driven by a sustained new customer base moving forward.

Millennials have dominated the parks for a while now, they aren’t coming to save them.


Now DCL on the other hand is so freaking niche I’m not sure if they’ve properly even tapped their market. RCL is basically adding as much capacity to Orlando in the next 16 months that dwarfs the entirety of the current DCL occupancy. Disney is literally missing the boat on the market if they don’t hurry up and order more vessels.

I feel like I might have mentioned this once before….

The problem with the Orlando parks is the prices.
They don’t represent a good value to the non-diehard now…and even they are starting to defect/reduce.

It also explains why Anaheim has been more insulated…a much higher cost market that is insulated from the cruise market that dominates the Florida coasts.

Cruises are a better value…and they will accommodate prices based on demand without hesitation over the Orlando market that has started this ridiculous policy of stubborn price fixing that isn’t working.

For instance…if Disney knew they were going to have a serious attendance dropoff after Covid in 2023…which they did in 2021…
Then you get off your ar$e and do aggressive tactics in 2022 at the latest.

What did they do? Eliminated beneficial things like dvc discount for annuals and tables in wonderland…rolled out a $1500 pass and increase the prices of Dasani twice a month.

Failing management using a bad Philosphy.

Let me go see how much money I lost on them this week?

 

[BrianLo]

If you're looking at base cruising fares, (Inside Room, No Specialty Restaurants, No Drinks, No Drink Plan, No Dining Plan, No extras) then I would agree with you. You can get on a week long cruise on a new ship for under $1K.

Where the craziness starts to come in is with the upcharges. $uites, Drinks, Specialty Dining, Shore excursion, On board extras, all add up.

Fair enough! Though the entertainment is largely better than land based products and the free food on the nicer mass market lines is great.

I am largely an inside studio person (and a DIY traveler). It’s the one thing NCL probably does a bit better than the industry average. Most of that is baked into the price with not this ridiculous price disparity on the ‘cruise only’ rooms.

Celeb and Royal mark the heck up the drink packages, even in the supposedly included fares.

Though it’s one of the fleeting perks of loyalty to the operators. I have a perfectly serviceable small free drinks package with status.