Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[DisneyHead123]

Cruising is still (outside of DCL) quite underpriced for the product compared to land vacations. I know cruising is experiencing pent up demand, but it’s also experiencing discovery by a new demographic. Supposedly millennials made up more than half of RCL occupancy. So I think some of it is actually going to be driven by a sustained new customer base moving forward.

Millennials have dominated the parks for a while now, they aren’t coming to save them.


Now DCL on the other hand is so freaking niche I’m not sure if they’ve properly even tapped their market. RCL is basically adding as much capacity to Orlando in the next 16 months that dwarfs the entirety of the current DCL occupancy. Disney is literally missing the boat on the market if they don’t hurry up and order more vessels.

I don't know how such things are calculated, but a quick Google search tells me that cruise numbers are projected to increase by 10% through 2028. I get that it's not for everybody, but for the people who it is for, I think a lot of them just didn't consider cruising in the past. I know when I was young the stereotype of a cruiser was a senior citizen who wanted to play shuffleboard on deck. There's a lot of untapped or just becoming developed potential there.

 

[flynnibus]

I completely understand if people would rather go to the parks. I think the appeal of one vs. the other has a lot

I think people get too hung up on ‘its not a tbeme park’. It’s not… but why would you only do one type of vacation? That would be like saying ‘i love going out to eat!’ But insisting on only ever trying one restaurant.

I would tell someone ’why do you want to stay at a resort like ghe poly?’. They would say things like the surroundings, the service, the food, the location, the atmosphere, etc. and that’s what I’m trying to highlight… you like it for what you get out of it… not because of ‘its the poly’.

This is why you can try different restaurants, rides, hotels, etc and find you like more than one

Falling for DCL is not about falling in love with a boat… or the ocean. It’s about getting a great vacation experience and finding you like what you get out of it.

People didn’t love theme parks in muggy Florida. They loved how disney treated them, the atmosphere they created, and then how they were entertained. Then they learned to love wdw as a place where they could get that.

But it’s not the only place… and not even the best anymore…

 

[BrianLo]

I don't know how such things are calculated, but a quick Google search tells me that cruise numbers are projected to increase by 10% through 2028. I get that it's not for everybody, but for the people who it is for, I think a lot of them just didn't consider cruising in the past. I know when I was young the stereotype of a cruiser was a senior citizen who wanted to play shuffleboard on deck. There's a lot of untapped or just becoming developed potential there.

I think royal finally cracked the family demo. Even though it was always for families, the oasis vessels ushered in a discovery phase for that market. Now the word feels out and it’s spilling downstream to other operators.

Royal’s real recent innovation is investing in their private islands in such a fashion that guests prefer going there. It’s the intersection of parks and cruises really and there’s a ton of money in it when you get both your guests cash on and off the vessel.

I’m critical of Disney on this matter but also Comcast. They really aren’t paying attention to the fact that Royal is coming after them in a big way. Disney is maybe rolling over in 2025, but Royal isn’t in the Orlando market. Comcast I think is stupidly going down the regional parks route, to their long term detriment.

 

[Laketravis]

All the above

Exactly. None of those are mutually exclusive. It's the art of yield management.

 

[Lilofan]

I don't know how such things are calculated, but a quick Google search tells me that cruise numbers are projected to increase by 10% through 2028. I get that it's not for everybody, but for the people who it is for, I think a lot of them just didn't consider cruising in the past. I know when I was young the stereotype of a cruiser was a senior citizen who wanted to play shuffleboard on deck. There's a lot of untapped or just becoming developed potential there.

The ones we go with that go on cruises like us have something in common. We love to eat, private island , different ports , all in one adventure on the seas.

 

[Laketravis]

Overheard the couple behind us at the merge point complaining that they got in the LL the same time we got in Standby and how they spent money that didn't make a difference.

I so wanted to explain to them how paying to be in a line creates the long line they paid to avoid.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think royal finally cracked the family demo. Even though it was always for families, the oasis vessels ushered in a discovery phase for that market. Now the word feels out and it’s spilling downstream to other operators.

Royal’s real recent innovation is investing in their private islands in such a fashion that guests prefer going there. It’s the intersection of parks and cruises really and there’s a ton of money in it when you get both your guests cash on and off the vessel.

I’m critical of Disney on this matter but also Comcast. They really aren’t paying attention to the fact that Royal is coming after them in a big way. Disney is maybe rolling over in 2025, but Royal isn’t in the Orlando market. Comcast I think is stupidly going down the regional parks route, to their long term detriment.

I disagree. The cruise industry already has lots of competition. A lot of regional parks do very well. If they pick their spots it can be a major success.

I also think those who visit Universal are more inclined to visit regional parks over your hardcore Disney guest. A lot of the as it is your hardcore Disney guest aren't necessarily into rides but experiences, entertainment and food.

That's also why it makes sense they are going on cruises instead of Disney cause cruises offer similar experiences minus the IP.

For my family, a cruise doesn't replace Disney or Universal as we go to the parks for rides. A cruise for us doesn't replace that.

 

[Lilofan]

I disagree. The cruise industry already has lots of competition. A lot of regional parks do very well. If they pick their spots it can be a major success.

I also think those who visit Universal are more inclined to visit regional parks over your hardcore Disney guest. A lot of the as it is your hardcore Disney guest aren't necessarily into rides but experiences, entertainment and food.

That's also why it makes sense they are going on cruises instead of Disney cause cruises offer similar experiences minus the IP.

For my family, a cruise doesn't replace Disney or Universal as we go to the parks for rides. A cruise for us doesn't replace that.

Much more offerings at WDW ( 27K acres ) compared to Uni ( 541 acres ) . Once in a blue moon we go to Uni or Sea World for a day trip.

 

[BrianLo]

I disagree. The cruise industry already has lots of competition. A lot of regional parks do very well. If they pick their spots it can be a major success.

I also think those who visit Universal are more inclined to visit regional parks over your hardcore Disney guest. A lot of the as it is your hardcore Disney guest aren't necessarily into rides but experiences, entertainment and food.

That's also why it makes sense they are going on cruises instead of Disney cause cruises offer similar experiences minus the IP.

For my family, a cruise doesn't replace Disney or Universal as we go to the parks for rides. A cruise for us doesn't replace that.

They are small children’s regional parks. The demographics don’t overlap with their core product. I think it’s a weird strategy. The financial metrics may be also quite challenging, they can hardly charge very high.

Not saying they need to be in cruises, but the direction on the kids regional parks is odd. We’ll see…

 

[Jrb1979]

They are small children’s regional parks. The demographics don’t overlap with their core product. I think it’s a weird strategy. The financial metrics may be also quite challenging, they can hardly charge very high.

Not saying they need to be in cruises, but the direction on the kids regional parks is odd. We’ll see…

I don't look at it that way. Their thinking is to get those families hooked on the IP when they are young. When they do get older they will want to go to the big parks.

 

[Nubs70]

Overheard the couple behind us at the merge point complaining that they got in the LL the same time we got in Standby and how they spent money that didn't make a difference.

I so wanted to explain to them how paying to be in a line creates the long line they paid to avoid.

Sounds like those are going to be 2 return visitors who will be brand evangelists between visits.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Overheard the couple behind us at the merge point complaining that they got in the LL the same time we got in Standby and how they spent money that didn't make a difference.

I so wanted to explain to them how paying to be in a line creates the long line they paid to avoid.

They would have been much better off if they had not done genie…but do smaller “pay as you go” fastpasses on anything with a long line and take the fastpass out of the ones that didn’t need it.

You want to pay $50 to ride mine train 4 times? Go ahead…you want to do it once for$12, ride haunted mansion 3 times, eat and be happy? Go ahead.

It wouldn’t result in less money.

 

[Laketravis]

They would have been much better off if they had not done genie…but do smaller “pay as you go” fastpasses on anything with a long line and take the fastpass out of the ones that didn’t need it.

You want to pay $50 to ride mine train 4 times? Go ahead…you want to do it once for$12, ride haunted mansion 3 times, eat and be happy? Go ahead.

It wouldn’t result in less money.

 

[Laketravis]

I was just gonna say.......

Warmer today, 93 with a feel like of 99. MK this afternoon has been a sharp contrast. Definitely not a "4" crowd level,.more like 7. Gift shops and concessions busy.

Amazing how quickly a Standby line moves when nobody is in the LL. PoTC had posted 35 minutes, we were boarding in 8.

But to your point, I think they should return to the original consumption based pricing model. Reduce the price of admission and charge for a single line at all attractions and watch those wait times plummet. I'd much rather pay $50 to get in the park and then maybe $5 per A, $7 per B, etc. But do away with "Standby" and LL lines, have a single payfor line.

Because the problem with multiple lines for something with a fixed yield is what we see now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was just gonna say.......

Warmer today, 93 with a feel like of 99. MK this afternoon has been a sharp contrast. Definitely not a "4" crowd level,.more like 7. Gift shops and concessions busy.

Amazing how quickly a Standby line moves when nobody is in the LL. PoTC had posted 35 minutes, we were boarding in 8.

But to your point, I think they should return to the original consumption based pricing model. Reduce the price of admission and charge for a single line at all attractions and watch those wait times plummet. I'd much rather pay $50 to get in the park and then maybe $5 per A, $7 per B, etc. But do away with "Standby" and LL lines, have a single payfor line.

Because the problem with multiple lines for something with a fixed yield is what we see now.

They can’t because they have a 50 year policy of never cutting prices on anything

Promos and temporary discounts maybe…but nothing that affects their model

 

[Tha Realest]

Overheard the couple behind us at the merge point complaining that they got in the LL the same time we got in Standby and how they spent money that didn't make a difference.

I so wanted to explain to them how paying to be in a line creates the long line they paid to avoid.

Three letters are why the line was that long. I’ll spot you the D and the A.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Three letters are why the line was that long. I’ll spot you the D and the A.

Well that’s part of it.

But it’s all too convenient they are “hinting” to their sources that it’s the WHOLE problem.

There’s at least one other guy on the Grassy Knoll there.

We shall see if I turns into a pumpkin?

 

[Chi84]

Overheard the couple behind us at the merge point complaining that they got in the LL the same time we got in Standby and how they spent money that didn't make a difference.

I so wanted to explain to them how paying to be in a line creates the long line they paid to avoid.

There are always long lines for the most popular rides, aren’t there? I remember 90-minute waits for Splash and Space in the mid-90’s when it was all standby. We just skipped those rides at the time.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There are always long lines for the most popular rides, aren’t there? I remember 90-minute waits for Splash and Space in the mid-90’s when it was all standby. We just skipped those rides at the time.

You shouldnt have…those lines moved and it was good conversation…part of the good time.

But you skipped them to go to get a $2.50 Mickey bar and a $20 meal at that time too…

We went to Crystal Palace on 12/30 for a birthday with 8…

$654

What a steal

 

[OrlandoRising]

I think people get too hung up on ‘its not a tbeme park’. It’s not… but why would you only do one type of vacation? That would be like saying ‘i love going out to eat!’ But insisting on only ever trying one restaurant.

You could say the same thing to people on this board for whom every vacation has to involve a Disney product in some way. Or the people who have taken the same DCL cruise route over and over again.

The reason DCL is being portrayed as a replacement for WDW trips is because people are saying as much.

I don't think everybody wants one type of vacation, as in they always go to the same place or eat at the same restaurant, but it's more about the style of vacation. If you're the type like me that wants to pack in multiple activities, shops, museums, etc. Lounging around a ship, eating and relaxing, that doesn't appeal to me personally.