Has Pixar Lost Its Touch?

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Original Poster


Analysts Say ‘Brave’s’ Big Open Still Missed The Bull’s Eye
With $66.7M in domestic ticket sales, the weekend was “good, but not Pixar great,” Cowen and Co analyst Doug Creutz says this morning. Even though the film will be profitable, “we remain concerned that the creative direction of Pixar may be wobbling as Brave is now the second consecutive film to receive less-than-rave reviews,” he adds. Brave‘s 74% positive rating at Rotten Tomatoes makes it one of just three Pixar releases to fall below 90%. “While it may have been easy to write-off Cars 2 as a toy marketing campaign gone wrong, the fact that Pixar has released a creatively ‘average’ original film is of incrementally more concern,” Creutz says. He estimates that theaters here sold about 8M tickets for Brave, which is comparable to other recent Pixar films but is “well below” the levels for films released between 1999-2006. “Given the price Disney paid for Pixar, and the importance of Pixar as an engine of creative content for the company, we take the risk of erosion of Pixar’s creative greatness very seriously.”
Lazard Capital Markets’ Barton Crockett also expected more. He predicted that Brave would open domestically at $81M, which would have set a record at Pixar for a non-sequel and would have put the film on a trajectory to generate $260M here. He notes this morning that the film “missed our ambitious outlook” and reduced his domestic forecast for the film to $254M. He adds that the $20.2M box office for DreamWorks Animation’s Madagascar 3: Europe’s Most Wanted “suggests no impact from Brave.”
But Wells Fargo Securities’ Marci Ryvicker was pleased. She says the film beat her expectation of $63M. Disney shares are down 1.7% in early trading, roughly in line with the overall market.
 

ellie-badge

Well-Known Member
Okay, I just came back from seeing Brave with a friend. I thought it was a rather enjoyable movie, and I liked how mature and especially dark it was. I guess you could say that it was a bit of a nod to us older kids who grew up with all of the company's movies or something.

With that having been said, though... Brave seemed more like a Disney movie than a Pixar movie, in my opinion. The whole "princess wanting more to life than what she's got" sort of thing seemed to fit the ticket more for Disney, and I will admit that I was kinda waiting for that special Pixar twist or mind-blowing moment to really draw me in... but the one twist that was in it, my friend and I already predicted based on the previews and various photos they released already, so it wasn't much of a surprise to either of us at all.

If I had young kids, I'd definitely wait a few more years before I'd let them see Brave. But aside from that, I thought this movie was actually pretty good. Definitely not the best Pixar film, but certainly not the worst, either.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I just saw the movie (I know, shame on me for waiting a few days) and I can only offer my opinion, but I thought it was great. Not Pixar's best, but hardly something I'd consider disapointing.

Lebeau, I can't imagine it's a pleasant experience to take a kid to a movie and find them that upset, I'm sorry to hear that and I wouldn't wish it on others, but I did not mind that the movie had "teeth" one bit. It's hardly the first animated movie to do so, and I doubt it will be the last. Having that angle helps sell the drama I find by giving it some exciting weight and I found it worked here.

I also feel some of the disapointment comes more from what story was told, more than how it was. Another Princess movie is hardly the most creative thing to do with animation, especially from a company with such creative efforts as Toy Story, Monsters inc., Wall-E and Up*. But having seen it, I feel as though the movie just shows they're as good as anyone else at doing a fairy tale.

* I also feel visiually it's remincisent of other recent animated movies like Tangled and How to Train Your Dragon.
 

ellie-badge

Well-Known Member
I just saw the movie (I know, shame on me for waiting a few days) and I can only offer my opinion, but I thought it was great. Not Pixar's best, but hardly something I'd consider disapointing.

Lebeau, I can't imagine it's a pleasant experience to take a kid to a movie and find them that upset, I'm sorry to hear that and I wouldn't wish it on others, but I did not mind that the movie had "teeth" one bit. It's hardly the first animated movie to do so, and I doubt it will be the last. Having that angle helps sell the drama I find by giving it some exciting weight and I found it worked here.

I also feel some of the disapointment comes more from what story was told, more than how it was. Another Princess movie is hardly the most creative thing to do with animation, especially from a company with such creative efforts as Toy Story, Monsters inc., Wall-E and Up*. But having seen it, I feel as though the movie just shows they're as good as anyone else at doing a fairy tale.

* I also feel visiually it's remincisent of other recent animated movies like Tangled and How to Train Your Dragon.

So I wasn't the only one who thought this! I got a lot of HtTYD vibes. o_O
 

Disneyfanman

Well-Known Member
I think part of the problem is that we all REALLY wanted Brave to be great. And the animation WAS stunning, the colors were vivid, and much of the story was very well done. We completely enjoyed the film! Yet, it never, in mine and my family's opinion, hit the level of Pixar's best. Now is that bad? NO! Is the movie a failure? NO! But it wasn't great. It was just really really good. And for me, the difference between UP!, and TS3, and Nemo, and Monsters, etc and Brave was story. That lump that I got in my throat when Sully smiled at the last moment of Monsters, or when Andy and the gang holds hands as they approach the fire, or when you finally see past the first few pages in that scrapbook in UP, or when Mr Incredible says to his wife that he isn't strong enough............it never happened for me in Brave. Pixar's gift to me over the years is that they get me to care for these silly made up animated characters like family. It didn't happen for me in Brave. And that makes me like, but not love the movie. It will go up on my shelf next to A Bugs Life. Extremely entertaining but not extremely memorable.

I will tell you something too. I would put Tangled right up there with my Pixar favorites. That lantern scene.......lump in the throat city.
 

ellie-badge

Well-Known Member
I think part of the problem is that we all REALLY wanted Brave to be great. And the animation WAS stunning, the colors were vivid, and much of the story was very well done. We completely enjoyed the film! Yet, it never, in mine and my family's opinion, hit the level of Pixar's best. Now is that bad? NO! Is the movie a failure? NO! But it wasn't great. It was just really really good. And for me, the difference between UP!, and TS3, and Nemo, and Monsters, etc and Brave was story. That lump that I got in my throat when Sully smiled at the last moment of Monsters, or when Andy and the gang holds hands as they approach the fire, or when you finally see past the first few pages in that scrapbook in UP, or when Mr Incredible says to his wife that he isn't strong enough............it never happened for me in Brave. Pixar's gift to me over the years is that they get me to care for these silly made up animated characters like family. It didn't happen for me in Brave. And that makes me like, but not love the movie. It will go up on my shelf next to A Bugs Life. Extremely entertaining but not extremely memorable.

I will tell you something too. I would put Tangled right up there with my Pixar favorites. That lantern scene.......lump in the throat city.

I agree with your entire post, but... Tangled isn't Pixar. ;)
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
The pixar movies I really had a hard time connecting with were Wall-e and Up. I thought the "we're too fat and not green preechiness of the movie was almost as vomit inducing as avatar's politics. I thought up was just a bad story...and my kids had a hard time with his wife dying. The rest of the Pixar releases' at least to me, were all masterpieces, including cars 2.

Hope brave is a good one...
 

fractal

Well-Known Member
Any dissapointment with Brave is due to PIXAR having raised the bar so high. Cars 2 was their "mulligan" so Brave needs to be great to keep that level of excellence up - and as great as the animation may be, it will always come down to the story. I plan to see it this weekend.
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
What I find ridiculous is that the poor reviews are giving it poor grades compared to other Pixar offerings. How is that in any way a fair method of judging a movie? I don't see Warner Bros. movies pitted one against the other! Moreover, one movie's success or failure should be measured on its own scale, not pitted against sometimes completely different movies. The same thing happened with Cars 2 only with a stronger and more extreme reaction. IMO, any film critic who's giving a movie poor reviews based on past experiences with said studio is being less-than-professional and will probably loose me as a reader.

It's one thing to compare a sequel to its predecessor - After all, they're of the same universe, and often follow similar genres and themes. To slam a movie because it doesn't live up to some fanboy level of expectations set over the years is just absurd. If critics had this mode of operation with every other studio other than Pixar and Disney I guarantee you Madagascar would be limping on with mediocre reviews, and probably anything good Fox has had to offer over the past couple of years (Avatar, X-Men First Class) would've been shunned based on the studio's performance during the beginning of the decade. :rolleyes:
 

bethymouse

Well-Known Member
Dear lord I saw Brave and I thought it was amazing, the only people I have seen complain about it have been male Pixar fans. It may be because I was never that crazy about most of Pixar's films that I love Brave so much, being a gay male it can sometimes be hard to find a film you relate to nowadays and I found Brave to be really touching and it charmed me from beginning to end. To call it a Pocahontas is a HUGE insult and going way too far, I think its just not what the average Pixar fan expected/wanted and they are whining for more predictable films about toys and bugs (or even some new ones about clothes and the lint in your belly button). My point is this film is a great step forward for Pixar in that it shows that they can produce darker and more emotional movies. I loved the movie, I'm going to see it again today and other than the devout Pixar fans I haven't heard any real negatives about the film in general.
I agree. My boys and I saw it twice. My Mom went too, and it was very touching, especially the looks on her (the bear's) face as a Mom. My husband didn't really like it, but everyone was clapping in the end. I think it sends a message that we all make mistakes, and that it's best in the end to admit them, and learn from them.;)
 

bethymouse

Well-Known Member
I guess I'm in the minority, I really like Cars 2. I have heard nothing but great things about Brave from actual people, not critics. I could really care less about what critics say anymore. Y'all remember a little movie with Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson called Batman? The critics destroyed that movie before it even came out and swore it would be a bomb. It's also funny how the critics bad mouthed John Carter (and lack of advertising was it's demise in the box office), yet my wife said that everywhere she looked for it on Blu-Ray, was sold out! I say the heck with the critics and form your own opinions.....this is just mine.
I liked Cars 2 as well, so do my boys: albeit a long movie (some parts I fell asleep). LOL ;)
 

bethymouse

Well-Known Member
Precisely. Cars got the same rating as Brave on Rotten Tomatoes, but I and many, many other people love that movie to bits. I have an inkling that Brave will fall into the same category as Cars: critics will say "meh," but most others will love it like most every other Pixar movie. I'm waiting to see the movie for myself before I make a real opinion on it, though.
Again- Cars sends a message about making mistakes and admitting your wrong-doing. The character MATER is one of the sweetest most innocent "guys" out there IMHO.:)
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
An interesting article on Brave that argues the film is more than "Just Another Princess Movie":

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/just-another-princess-movie/

One of my problems with Brave was that Merida is just yet another stereotypical 90's disney princess. The free spirit who wants to have adventures, but no, society says she must wear dresses and act like a woman. Seen it! You could argue that the only difference between her and Belle is that she's scottish and likes bows and arrows instead of reading books.

Over all I thought the movie was good, but a whole lot of it I just felt like I'd seen before.
 

Malvito

Member
My wife and I loved CARS 2; we saw a lot fof James Bond spoofing, laughed ourselves silly, and had a great time. We liked Brave, and will be getting the Blu-ray, though I'd be lying to say that we were as enthusiastic as with, say, Wall-E, Ratattouille, or Up! (though comparing anything to Up! is setting the bar too high). I would have to side with DisneyFanman about the Lump In The Throat factor.

Is PIXAR losing its touch? Hardly. It is a creative venture, and, like any creative venture (Disney-related or no), it's output, like Your Mileage, Will Vary.

Of course, with any creative venture that has enjoyed a successful run, there will be any number of naysayers who want to spit on the party, which has more to do with the question of PIXAR's touch than anything else.
 

FitzherbertFreak

Well-Known Member
I agree that Cars 2 was a little disappointing after seeing the first Cars. But when has a Pixar movie ever been bad? NEVER. I thought Brave was great, had a great story, characters, etc. I think the next movie, Monsters University will not be disappointing. I die of laughter every time I see the trailer.
 

celticdog

Well-Known Member
After reading all the posts the one lousy Pixar move missing was Ratattouille. It was way worse than Cars 2. Ratattouille is missing something. It just doesn't seem to flow. I don't care for any of the characters. The dialog is weak. For me, it just seems to fail on so many levels. In my opinion, Cars 2 should be renamed "Mater's Day Out". Cars 2 felt like one long commercial to market and sell new toys (boats, planes, ships, etc.). I felt uncomfortable watching and listening to the dialog. Brave on the otherhand brought in a breath of freash air. I found the movie very enjoyable, the jokes were amusing and the visuals were abolutely stunning. The soundtrack is excellent. The opening aerial scene just blew me away.
 

wiigirl

Well-Known Member
An interesting article on Brave that argues the film is more than "Just Another Princess Movie":

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/just-another-princess-movie/

Good article! :)
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