Disney Tackles Lines

TRONorail10

Active Member
So, I was most amused by this little fun fact:
  • Data supports that on average guests are able to do 9 rides in a day (of 40 possible)
  • Over the last few months (September, October and November based on date of the article) that was raised to 10
So, is it fair to assume success in line management for being able to get people on more attractions in the slow period than on average overall?

Everything being discussed is prodominately geared towards Magic Kingdom. Solution - expand the other 3 parks to draw people AWAY from the Magic Kingdom. Disney's solution - expand the park that already has enough attractions and entertainment and is the most crowded park. i'm happy for the Fantasyland Expansion, i really am, but Disney should have expanded one of the other parks first before the Magic Kingdom. Magic Kingdom will always be Disney World's cash cow, now Disney must work on easing some of the pressure off of MK and putting the pressure on the other parks to bring in higher crowds and revenue.
 

niteobsrvr

Well-Known Member
How is someone standing around in Fantasyland going to know a mini-parade is happening in Tomorrowland? And I'm sorry, but what exactly are the CMs doing at these attractions that they can't call their managers and request to add more boats? Or why can't the manager of a restaurant tell on his own that he needs to open more registers? More beneficial decisions can be made by someone who is on-site rather than by someone who is looking at a monitor...how does that CM know the line isn't being backed for some other reason, and that it is only a temporary flux? This seems to be a case when technology is being used simply because it exists.

First, I think you are all taking the article way to literally. Second, just because things haven't worked that way in the past does not mean the future cant embrace such concepts.

Each attraction does not have a manager or a supervisor. People who work in those capacities are assigned to groups of attractions. IE, there is no position title like Manager - Space Mountain. CM's also don't make decisions. Even as coordinators, CM's have to get approval for anything from the Operations Manager for their area.

Disney has been building data and monitoring such things as through put of an attraction for years. A manager working an area may not actually have time to decide more boats need to be added here and so forth as he is dealing with guest issues like people allowing kids with injuries because their parents allowed them to sit on the bars in the que.

In essence what Disney has realized is that their attraction managers are tied up with all sorts of issues that have to be dealt with that are not always directly related to the actual capacity and overall guest satisfaction of a particular ride at a particular moment in time. By utilizing technology and a dedicated team of operations personnel, they can focus on both the overall staisfaction as well as delaing with the little Johnnies who cracked their skull.

You also have to understand staffing of CM's which is managed by active systems that utlize all sorts of information both historical and live to assign the right mix of people ot the right places at the right time. Staff may not be available in a particular Tomorrowland restaurant at that time to open a register but they might be available in another restaurant a couple of hundred yards away. Who knows this? Well some humans do somewhere. But do these humans separated by distance have time to talk and the situation while dealing with the myriad of issues as mentioned above. ON a slow day maybe, but on a day when the park is litteraly packed, probably not. The systems as described allow for live non-distracted monitoring my a team of people who can then make the right calls and create a workable solution to improve guest satisfaction while also positively affecting the bottom line.

Its really not so far fetched. Not everything about the NextGen project had to do with direct guest interation, I am sure. SOme of it certainly encompasses these kinds of things that improve the guest experience without them knowing it.

Disney shouldn't be regularly overstaffing for "in case of" situations. That's just poor management.

In a place as large as Disney, there is definitely a need to over staff. Its all figured into the daily operation to account for absenteeism, CM's who become ill or face other personal emergencies. Or even, to cover for unanticipated demand that occurs when you project 20,000 people in a park and suddenly you have 25,000. It happens and if there were no extra staff to help alleviate these things, guest would certainly be up in arms. THe down side is that sometimes, the running joke is that there are more cast members in the park than guests.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
This article is a bit shaky. I am not sure if it is just poorly written, if the writer misunderstood what was being said or what. But take for example the Move it Shake it Parade. I think what they were trying to say is, by running the parade through the central pub, it would deflect people into Tomorrowland. If FantasyLand is really busy, then you want to move people through tomorrowland to get there, thereby dispersing some of those potential FL people onto TL attractions.

The problem with the lines IMO is the perception of standing around wasting your vacation. Now, for people like us, this is not an issue. We work the fast pass, we get there at rope drop, we never get stuck only riding 9 things. But for the average guest, they don't want to be standing in a line with nothing going on, just thinking about how much time they are losing. That is where I believe TDO is succeeding with the idea of the interactive queue. Provide people with things to do, to distract them from the wait. Then the queue again begins to feel like part of the ride, therefore eliminating the perception of wasted time.
 
I know there is a lot wrong with this article, but this statement made me chuckle:

Disney has long been a leader in technological innovation, whether that means inventing cameras to make animated films or creating the audio animatronic robots for the attraction It’s a Small World.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the dolls in IASW not actually considered audio animatronic?
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
First, I think you are all taking the article way to literally. Second, just because things haven't worked that way in the past does not mean the future cant embrace such concepts.
There is no way someone looking at a monitor has a grasp of the "big picture". It can be misleading.

Each attraction does not have a manager or a supervisor. People who work in those capacities are assigned to groups of attractions. IE, there is no position title like Manager - Space Mountain. CM's also don't make decisions. Even as coordinators, CM's have to get approval for anything from the Operations Manager for their area.
Not relevant. Worst case scenario a CM can call their manager and reccommend adjustments. It's what we did at Six Flags. The supervisor would come and take a look, and the decision would be based not just on the wait time, but the number of people in the park AND the amount of staffing available for the adjustments. Someone looking at a computer can say "add 5 boats" but does he know that you can't add 5 boats because you are short staffed, or two boats are being repaired, or the line's wait time is the result of a parade ending so there is a temporaray influx of guests. There's more to it than what's visible on a computer screen.

Disney has been building data and monitoring such things as through put of an attraction for years. A manager working an area may not actually have time to decide more boats need to be added here and so forth as he is dealing with guest issues like people allowing kids with injuries because their parents allowed them to sit on the bars in the que.
That is not at all a good excuse. These are not life-and-death decisions...if boats need to be added, it can wait until someone is available to more thoroughly assess the situation, as opposed to someone who is going to add boats that isn't needed, because the long wait time might simply be temporary.

In essence what Disney has realized is that their attraction managers are tied up with all sorts of issues that have to be dealt with that are not always directly related to the actual capacity and overall guest satisfaction of a particular ride at a particular moment in time. By utilizing technology and a dedicated team of operations personnel, they can focus on both the overall staisfaction as well as delaing with the little Johnnies who cracked their skull.

Then that simply means poor management. Attractions supervisors shouldn't be constantly busy handling complaints opr accidents. If so then it means there is a serious failure on their part to actually manage.

You also have to understand staffing of CM's which is managed by active systems that utlize all sorts of information both historical and live to assign the right mix of people ot the right places at the right time.
I've worked in a theme park and I know how staffing them works.

Staff may not be available in a particular Tomorrowland restaurant at that time to open a register but they might be available in another restaurant a couple of hundred yards away. Who knows this? Well some humans do somewhere.
The on-site manager or lead will know when he needs more cashiers, and if as you say someone somewhere knows where additional staffing is, the on-site manager/lead can call that person. A person looking at a monitor may not know that additional registers are closed because a spill makes it dangerous to be there for a few minutes, or there is an equipment failure causing the back-up, or that the kitchen simply cannot produce food any faster, or there is no line outside of the camera's range and the line isn't as long as it appears. A long line doesn't always mean a slow line, and the number of registers open won't speed up the food preparation process.

But do these humans separated by distance have time to talk and the situation while dealing with the myriad of issues as mentioned above. ON a slow day maybe, but on a day when the park is litteraly packed, probably not. The systems as described allow for live non-distracted monitoring my a team of people who can then make the right calls and create a workable solution to improve guest satisfaction while also positively affecting the bottom line.

Guest complaints and injuries should not be occupying too much of a manager's time, otherwise that manager isn't doing his job properly. And there should be more than one manger who can make those decisions.

Its really not so far fetched. Not everything about the NextGen project had to do with direct guest interation, I am sure. SOme of it certainly encompasses these kinds of things that improve the guest experience without them knowing it.

I know I like being stuck on Splash Mountain, IaSW and Pirates because (mostly empty) boats are backed-up at load.

In a place as large as Disney, there is definitely a need to over staff. Its all figured into the daily operation to account for absenteeism, CM's who become ill or face other personal emergencies. Or even, to cover for unanticipated demand that occurs when you project 20,000 people in a park and suddenly you have 25,000. It happens and if there were no extra staff to help alleviate these things, guest would certainly be up in arms. THe down side is that sometimes, the running joke is that there are more cast members in the park than guests.
And that's part of the problem. Overstaffing and extra staffing are two different conceits. Overstaffing means you have more staff than you need at any time. Extra staffing means you have enough staff for those emergency situations. They'd probably save more money on payroll if they paid CMs more money, which would get them more reliable employees, and less need for an overstaffed park.
 

Alektronic

Well-Known Member
Most of what is in the article is just "What if" scenarios. They were just showing the reporter what could be possible if the computers showed a problem. Most attractions already the right amount of ride vehicles on the attractions, the only time you need to add another vehicle is if you have to remove one for problems. Basically, you just need to dispatch and unload faster.

If Phil Holmes is in the computer room making all the decisions, then that is definitely Micro-Management.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
How is someone standing around in Fantasyland going to know a mini-parade is happening in Tomorrowland? And I'm sorry, but what exactly are the CMs doing at these attractions that they can't call their managers and request to add more boats? Or why can't the manager of a restaurant tell on his own that he needs to open more registers? More beneficial decisions can be made by someone who is on-site rather than by someone who is looking at a monitor...how does that CM know the line isn't being backed for some other reason, and that it is only a temporary flux? This seems to be a case when technology is being used simply because it exists.

Disney shouldn't be regularly overstaffing for "in case of" situations. That's just poor management.

It sounds more like it isn't a suggestion to add more boats but a demand because someone was not paying attention. It seems the same way with how they were talking about the tea cup ride being half filled and the wait time was going up. I wonder if these suggestions are going to be counted against CMs in their performance reviews.
 

sublimesting

Well-Known Member
I know there is a lot wrong with this article, but this statement made me chuckle:



Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the dolls in IASW not actually considered audio animatronic?


Correct, real living children that have wandered away or been removed from parents unable to pay the dinner tab and forced to perform are not called animatronic.
 

sublimesting

Well-Known Member
This article is filled with inconcistancies because it is not true. The command center under the castle is used to launch the missiles in the tower silos.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Everything being discussed is prodominately geared towards Magic Kingdom. Solution - expand the other 3 parks to draw people AWAY from the Magic Kingdom. Disney's solution - expand the park that already has enough attractions and entertainment and is the most crowded park. i'm happy for the Fantasyland Expansion, i really am, but Disney should have expanded one of the other parks first before the Magic Kingdom. Magic Kingdom will always be Disney World's cash cow, now Disney must work on easing some of the pressure off of MK and putting the pressure on the other parks to bring in higher crowds and revenue.

Well if WS had a ride in every country and increased the country count by 4 it would have the most rides/attractions.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Interesting concept on the wristbands. I could see them using this info and targeting "big spending" guests with more perks. Sort of what they do in Vegas except they give you quicker fast pass times or something to entice you to spend more.

This has to deal with the whole next gen concept that I am sure there are many forums that have bashed out the details to a fine dust. Wristbands have been discussed as one of the ways to implement the rfid chips, though I doubt that disney wants a cheap looking wristband on their guests' wrist.
 

luckyeye13

New Member
Most attractions already the right amount of ride vehicles on the attractions, the only time you need to add another vehicle is if you have to remove one for problems.

Not only that, on most attractions adding another ride vehicle would actually cause the lines to get considerably longer, since the ride would have to be completely shut down for the vehicle to be brought out. Since there would be a desire to not break up the ride experience of those already inside, that means that either everyone in the ride would have to get through first (which would mean that no one in line can load during that time) or the entire line would be cycled through (which means that no one else would be able to enter the line). There are a few rides, like Test Track, where vehicles can be brought in or taken out with the rest of the ride in operation, but they are in the minority.


The on-site manager or lead will know when he needs more cashiers, and if as you say someone somewhere knows where additional staffing is, the on-site manager/lead can call that person.

Since I no longer work at WDW, I haven't seen what, if any, changes this system has on day-to-day operation, but I am sure that the center for line busting has access to the staffing levels throughout the entire park, something that local managers would not necessarily have, since it wouldn't be considered essential to their role. (At Disney, if something isn't deemed necessary for a CM to have access to, they won't so that there is less chance of it being misused or accidental mistakes being made.) I remember how many people were surprised that, as a Modified Work Coordinator, I had access to all schedules that were in the Cast Deployment System at all locations in the labor region (even World of Disney NYC, since that belonged to the Downtown Disney area!). However, it was because I needed to be able to modify schedules for CMs for the day that they entered Modified Work (and sometimes other days) by cutting or deleting their regular shifts to enable me to enter them in our area. As our CMs could come from any part of our labor region on any day, I needed to be able to do this with any area (except obviously WOD NYC, but that came part and parcel with access to WOD at Downtown Disney). In most cases, their managers or coordinators back in their home areas would have to call the Deployment Base to do the same thing, since it was not a regular function of their roles, except between locations in their own area, which they could do on their own.

Also, on the topic of overstaffing, I think that extra staffing, the other shade of this that you mentioned, would be more appropriate. There is a level of extra staffing in place in most areas to cover contingencies, plus, in the middle of the day, there is usually some overlap between CMs who are about to go home and those coming in to work, so that the area doesn't become understaffed. Additionally, during really busy times, an increased number of CMs on Modified Work are usually scheduled to assist Guest areas, especially retail, in backstage capacities in order to free up the regular CMs to help on stage. (A certain number of CMs on Modified Work would do this, anyway, at any time of year, but the busy periods will see many of those helping non-Guest areas scheduled to Guest areas during that time.) You usually won't see them, but they are there helping the area.

In the event that an area does have too much staff, they will usually offer the option to Early Release and, if needed, also send home any CMs on Extra Hours shifts. On any given day, there generally are enough CMs who want to leave early for one reason or another to cover this need, should it arise, especially near the end of the day. Those that don't want to go home will take turns being tasked to do things that need doing within their areas. In most cases, the sharp and sudden variety of overstaffing occurs because the actual attendance is considerably lower than the projected attendance, which determines the scheduling. In one case, I was supposed to be on (I believe) a five or six hour Extra Hours shift at the Main Street Bakery during one of the Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Parties. However, it rained that evening (and not the typical 15-minute Florida rain, but a more sustained rain for about two or three hours), so many non-party Guests left the park earlier than the closing time and fewer Guests than expected came to the party, which wasn't sold out that night, anyway. (I assume, though, that the Guests did start trickling in later after the rain stopped, since they wouldn't want to waste their tickets. By that point, though, my shift would have ended, anyway.) So, after I finished the couple of tasks that were found for me to do in the absence of Guests to serve, I was sent home after only two hours.
 

luckyeye13

New Member
This has to deal with the whole next gen concept that I am sure there are many forums that have bashed out the details to a fine dust. Wristbands have been discussed as one of the ways to implement the rfid chips, though I doubt that disney wants a cheap looking wristband on their guests' wrist.

Ooh! I got it! How about implanting a chip in each Guest as they enter the parks? Then, they could also use it to send a mild electric shock to Guests who misbehave. And, of course, they could also offer limited edition chips for Guests to collect. :ROFLOL:
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Ooh! I got it! How about implanting a chip in each Guest as they enter the parks? Then, they could also use it to send a mild electric shock to Guests who misbehave. And, of course, they could also offer limited edition chips for Guests to collect. :ROFLOL:

well the misbehaving children that show up for pop warner and other sporting events aren't going to be visiting the parks then. I call that a plus!
 

mp2bill

Well-Known Member
This article is just written poorly. I believe Disney is trying to improve wait times. It just seems like they put the most scattered brain writer on the story.

"Scattered brained," I think is the appropriate term here. I usually enjoy NY Times articles as they are normally well written, but this guy was all over the place. On line that bothered me was when he said that Fast Pass "allows you to skip lines for popular rides such as The Jungle Cruise." To a person who has never been to a Disney Park (or hasn't been in a while), this must seem like a dream scenario. A more appropriate description would have been to say, "Fast Pass is a system that allows you to get a ticket that essentially holds your place in line for popular rides such as The Jungle Cruise so that you are able to go on other rides and return at a future window of time, thus in effect, skipping the line for that ride."

Also, the article states, "In recent years, according to Disney research, the average Magic Kingdom visitor has had time for only nine rides — out of more than 40 — because of lengthy waits and crowded walkways and restaurants." My beef has nothing to do with the author's writing style, but my question is, "Is this really how most people experience WDW?" I may not have the same experience that other people have because I usually visit the World in late April, early May when most people aren't on vacation, but I can usually hit up at least 3/4 of the rides (all while having a sit-down dinner and going on my favorite rides multiple time). Does the number of rides most people have time for really drop off that precipitously during the "busy season?"
 

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