Congress Questions Next Gen

flynnibus

Premium Member
If, at the end of the day, the Congressman's inquiries result in Disney having to have transparency and give us actual, concrete information and specific details...why is that a bad thing??

It's a good thing.. for exactly as you say.. the push for transparency.

Their is an important difference between 'seeking knowledge' and 'investigating wrong doings'.. while they may look similar, one shouldn't assume the latter.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
I've read the Disney Park Experience Terms and Conditions several times, consider myself one of NextGen's most informed pupils, and still don't understand what NextGen is truly trying to accomplish.

I can answer that for you. It's simple, they're trying to find new ways to make more money, or to get a better return on their investments.

From everything I've read on NextGen, here, other sites, patents and other information, there has never been any mention of data harvesting for the purpose of re-selling it to third parties, nor even trying to influence guests in any way. Their stated purposes are to improve the guest experience and find ways to maximize efficiency in their operations, resource planning and improving forecasts (some of this is implied more than stated). Now, that's not to say that they don't have a more (sinister?) plot or conspiracy to do something else, but I haven't seen anything like that. What I have seen is that they want to try and sell the bands and features it provides as a service to off-site hotels and ticket providers, or at the least add more value to the benefits of staying on-property. If you remember, they originally were going to try and sell this to on-property as well, but that changed, although, there are still some pay features such as customizable arm bands and other "for-pay upgrades" they're trying to work in. I'm sure there's more, but that's all that I've read so far.

Just my own speculation here, but I see a couple of things that Disney is likely looking at for the long term.
1) They're probably reaching what some might consider "reasonable capacity" for parks, attractions, hotels, staffing and guest levels. As we know, they are already at a point where they are having trouble maintaining what they have at safe and efficient levels. Sure, there's room for more growth, but the question should be asked, is it within reason and can it be maintained and properly contained? WDW guest levels have grown at an average rate of around 2.5% since 2001, but have started to show signs of leveling out. Some of this is due to competition, but some of it's due to the park capacities as well. There are only so many people you can cram in to MK on July 4th, Christmas week, etc. before it's just not enjoyable for the average guest. Even the off-seasons have grown considerably to the point that it's starting to become uncomfortably crowded more often than not. So, with this in mind, they know they must find new ways to generate revenue without adding capacity.

2) The price of a day ticket is approaching $100, and many are speculating when it will hit and who will be first to raise their prices to this level. Management is concerned that this might just be a breaking point for some families and deter them. So, again, they are looking for new ways to add value to staying on property, or if not, ways they can re-coup the lost revenue of guests who choose to stay off-property.

Again, this is just my speculative guesses, but it's base on what I've read about NextGen. I see no devious plot to sell guest data, just a desire to find new ways to make money without building multi-million dollar attractions that don't necessarily have a foreseeable and quick return. I could be completely off-base, and I'm willing to accept that, but based on what we've seen at WDW and even DLR in the past decade, as well as some of the comments made by Iger, this would seem to me where they're wanting to go.

BTW: I've read thru the Terms and Conditions (mentioned above) as well as their Privacy Policy at: http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html -
and they are pretty clear and specific about how they will use your information, and that they will not sell or share it with others unless it is needed to deliver specific services which you requested. They do specify that they may share it within their own companies, but they also make it very clear how to modify or remove your information.
 

BadTigger

Active Member
How exactly does this differ from using your current room key for EVERYTHING??? The answer is it doesn't, it just makes it easier for everyone involved. I don't understand why people are questioning the wristbands, well I do it's that they are miss-informed on technology and how their data now is even used, plus everyone thinks someone is out to get them. Sad thing is our lives and movements are so unimportant that Disney or anyone else really doesn't care.

The wristbands are going to do nothing but add to the experience at Disney Parks. After just returning from a trip and seeing where all the places they can be used are being installed it's going to make things a lot more fun.

For starters, no longer do you need to carry around cards.
Turnstiles are now being removed in place you just tap and go.
FP+ is going to be a nice incentive, and I would be front of the line to lay down extra bucks for it to allow me full blown access to use the FP lines whenever, yes i know this isn't on the table but I would put money on this being made available to X number of guests a day down the road.
New ride interaction. If you've been on the new test track they have a new RFID station in the queues. You tap a card now and build a car, then when you get on the ride you tap again and see the car on the screens of the ride, plus there is a bunch of post ride activities tied to the RFID card. This will all end up tied to the bands, as the cards are just temporary till the bands are full up to speed. If they add functionality like this to more rides, it makes the waits more enjoyable and adds a new dimension to the ride themselves.

So as far as people concerns. Again if you use the room key for your ticket and charging they can already track your movements and habits. As far as buying anything a pin in required, so even if someone were to "clone" your wristband they still need the pin which isn't housed on the band. RFID is very secure as each system hold it's own encryption, unlike a magnetic stripe which is universal. I can't use my work access card at Disney. Also who doesn't carry a cellphone?? There is a lot more detailed trackign going on with your cellphone then what will EVER go on with an RFID wristband.

Bottom line, don't worry enjoy the awesome technology and fun that is coming!
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
For starters, no longer do you need to carry around cards.
Turnstiles are now being removed in place you just tap and go.
FP+ is going to be a nice incentive, and I would be front of the line to lay down extra bucks for it to allow me full blown access to use the FP lines whenever, yes i know this isn't on the table but I would put money on this being made available to X number of guests a day down the road.
New ride interaction. If you've been on the new test track they have a new RFID station in the queues. You tap a card now and build a car, then when you get on the ride you tap again and see the car on the screens of the ride, plus there is a bunch of post ride activities tied to the RFID card. This will all end up tied to the bands, as the cards are just temporary till the bands are full up to speed. If they add functionality like this to more rides, it makes the waits more enjoyable and adds a new dimension to the ride themselves.

I didn't realise that carrying a card was such a hardship - cards also don't leave you with a suntan line either
I'm sure it's been said that you still need to scan your finger for entry to parks
FP+ seems to be coming at the expense of FP
Ride Interaction - Test Track has been open nearly 2 months now, and the cards still aren't working properly. And I would be all for the design process if it actually did anything - instead it's just another interactice queue just like Pooh/Haunted Mansion
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
And if Disney has nothing to hide, they should respond to Rep Markey's letter honestly and completely.
While that sounds reasonable, Disney may very well have "something to hide" without there being anything nefarious afoot. If I understand some of what I've seen them publish, they plan to possibly sell the technology [not talking about the datamined info] to other organizations. They may deem some of the information proprietary and not respond to certain aspects of some of the questions for commercial reasons.

Whether they would withhold the information from the Congressman and explain that it's proprietary or provide it under separate cover with a confidentiality requirement I don't know. But just because they don't answer everything publicly doesn't necessarily mean they're up to no good.
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
The fact is right now, the entire NextGen concept is vague at best. The specific details of who, what, and how are confusing, half-truths and downright guessing. It's all speculation at this point. No one really knows what exactly Disney is going to do, how they're going to do it and what they're going to truly be using this collected information for. And most importantly, they're not talking. Disney does not want to give us the information openly, freely and simply. They count on the general unwillingness to question, or to just click the "accept" button without reading.

If, at the end of the day, the Congressman's inquiries result in Disney having to have transparency and give us actual, concrete information and specific details...why is that a bad thing?? For everyone who says they're "ok" with any of the possible scenarios, tracking, data mining, etc., wouldn't you like to know what it is exactly you're ok with? You cannot make informed or educated choices in life if you don't have the facts. Right now, we have NO facts and Disney isn't giving them up to us as individuals. Which is why we have elected officials that can step in on our behalf.

More information to make informed decisions is never a bad thing. I can't even fathom why anyone - if you like the NextGen ideas or not - would be against actually knowing the real details of this program

Wow, what a perfectly stated post.

Disney isn't really answering the tough questions. Frankly, they're not even answering most of the really easy ones. If folks online, the press, or elected officials get them to shed some light onto what exactly they are planning on doing then I completely agree that I don't see how that is a bad thing for anyone to learn this information. If you are satisfied with those answers (if we ever get them), then great, the conversation is done for you. If not, then folks can act as they see fit as well.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
How exactly does this differ from using your current room key for EVERYTHING??? The answer is it doesn't, it just makes it easier for everyone involved. I don't understand why people are questioning the wristbands, well I do it's that they are miss-informed on technology and how their data now is even used, plus everyone thinks someone is out to get them. Sad thing is our lives and movements are so unimportant that Disney or anyone else really doesn't care.

The wristbands are going to do nothing but add to the experience at Disney Parks. After just returning from a trip and seeing where all the places they can be used are being installed it's going to make things a lot more fun.

For starters, no longer do you need to carry around cards.
Turnstiles are now being removed in place you just tap and go.
FP+ is going to be a nice incentive, and I would be front of the line to lay down extra bucks for it to allow me full blown access to use the FP lines whenever, yes i know this isn't on the table but I would put money on this being made available to X number of guests a day down the road.
New ride interaction. If you've been on the new test track they have a new RFID station in the queues. You tap a card now and build a car, then when you get on the ride you tap again and see the car on the screens of the ride, plus there is a bunch of post ride activities tied to the RFID card. This will all end up tied to the bands, as the cards are just temporary till the bands are full up to speed. If they add functionality like this to more rides, it makes the waits more enjoyable and adds a new dimension to the ride themselves.

So as far as people concerns. Again if you use the room key for your ticket and charging they can already track your movements and habits. As far as buying anything a pin in required, so even if someone were to "clone" your wristband they still need the pin which isn't housed on the band. RFID is very secure as each system hold it's own encryption, unlike a magnetic stripe which is universal. I can't use my work access card at Disney. Also who doesn't carry a cellphone?? There is a lot more detailed trackign going on with your cellphone then what will EVER go on with an RFID wristband.

Bottom line, don't worry enjoy the awesome technology and fun that is coming!

So... You claim that everything this new system will do can already be done with the KTTW card... And you KNOW the pricetag on this entire operation is over $1,500,000,000.00...

And yet those two pieces of information don't make you question the motives.

Makes sense.

 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
They've been taking our fingerprint for years ! Imagine how many fignerprints Disney has on file?

54b3e46b_not-sure-if-serious.jpeg
 

38053WDW

Well-Known Member
PLEASE get educated on the topic before posting on it. You're incorrect.

I can think of a few others on this thread that should also heed that advice, IMO.
Then tell us oh great one .. why do I have to put my finger on the scanner? Why is it if if doesn't work they ask me if this was the same finger I used before? I know .. for my verification of who I am .. then delete the data after 30 days or so ...and I'll bet you think our medical records will only be seen by our doctors :) and those web cams are only up in the city for your saftey .. we would never used them to do facial reconition ..

All you had to do was send me to a link to understand what they do and how they operate and maybe help a few other people out at the same time like this ... "Hey WDW here is a good link to read on "exactly" what they do and how they are used... I hope this helps you and others to udnerstand how Disney uses them. As you an see I'm an advid fourm writer here so I try to help out when I can" .. bu nah .. that would havbe bee asking too much.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Then tell us oh great one .. why do I have to put my finger on the scanner? Why is it if if doesn't work they ask me if this was the same finger I used before? I know .. for my verification of who I am .. then delete the data after 30 days or so ...and I'll bet you think our medical records will only be seen by our doctors :) and those web cams are only up in the city for your saftey .. we would never used them to do facial reconition ..

All you had to do was send me to a link to understand what they do and how they operate and maybe help a few other people out at the same time like this ... "Hey WDW here is a good link to read on "exactly" what they do and how they are used... I hope this helps you and others to udnerstand how Disney uses them. As you an see I'm an advid fourm writer here so I try to help out when I can" .. bu nah .. that would havbe bee asking too much.

Look... When you post as if you're confident your information is correct when it isn't, you're gonna get told it isn't. I didn't do it rudely... I didn't put up a Picard *facepalm* pic. I asked first if you were joking, and when you clearly weren't, I suggested you read up on it before posting about it. It's not my job to hold your hand and do your homework for you and educate you on a topic that's been covered here ad nauseum. This site has a search feature that works quite well.

This comes up REPEATEDLY, to the point where you can't swing a dead cat around here without someone else having to give a dissertation on what biometeric scanning is and how it's used at the turnstiles. It's the equivalent of another thread talking about a 5th gate or monorail expansion. Frustrations bubble to the surface quickly on a handful of constantly repeated parks "urban legends".
 

Skippy's Pal

Well-Known Member
Markey has been in congress for 35 years and runs unopposed from republicans because its freaking Massachussets - he doesn't need election stunts..


He does now - wants to be senator, running against Scott Brown, who, despite losing to Mrs. Warren, remains very popular state-wide, which is a whole other kettle of fish from running from his multi-election safe district. For that matter, there is a serious current question as to whether Markey is even a legal resident of Massachsetts at this point. Markey will be very much opposed in the senatorial special election in 90 or so days.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
Look... When you post as if you're confident your information is correct when it isn't, you're gonna get told it isn't. I didn't do it rudely... I didn't put up a Picard *facepalm* pic. I asked first if you were joking, and when you clearly weren't, I suggested you read up on it before posting about it. It's not my job to hold your hand and do your homework for you and educate you on a topic that's been covered here ad nauseum. This site has a search feature that works quite well.

This comes up REPEATEDLY, to the point where you can't swing a dead cat around here without someone else having to give a dissertation on what biometeric scanning is and how it's used at the turnstiles. It's the equivalent of another thread talking about a 5th gate or monorail expansion. Frustrations bubble to the surface quickly on a handful of constantly repeated parks "urban legends".

How do you swing a dead cat around an internet web forum? I would prefer a response like this ... "Hey WDW here is a good link to read on "exactly" what you do to swing a dead cat around on the internet... I hope this helps you and others udnerstand how to do this. As you an see I'm an advid fourm writer here so I try to help out when I can"

I deem any other potential response you may write as wholly unsatisfactory.
 

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