BLACKFISH

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Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
@englanddg, I need to tweak your message just a little bit to see if we can get through.
  1. Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have. (Yeah...no need to clarify this. It's obvious.)
  2. Never go outside the expertise of your people. (cherry picking evidence while dismissing other evidence)
  3. Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.(this does not mean you get to make up facts)
  4. Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. (this does not mean to misrepresent their rules)
  5. Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. (the rape comments?)
  6. A good tactic is one your people enjoy. (19 people storming a parade float)
  7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. (Nope...haven't learned that one)
  8. Keep the pressure on. Never let up.
  9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. (Sea World employees dying every day because of "the man!")
  10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. (I don't see this building a national coalition like animal rights did 30 or 40 years ago. Merely it's mental masturbation.)
  11. If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.
  12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. (nope, not presented...they must have missed that day in class)
  13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. (Nuff said)
 

jdmdisney99

Well-Known Member
You may be right about that, jdmdisney99.

And if life in captivity damages an orca so much that it could not be expected to function normally in the natural environment, maybe we should abolish the practice altogether.

There is always the possibility that things can be done differently....
Right but what happens then? What do you do with the captive orcas? You agreed that they are unable to survive in the wild, so how do you expect them to live if Sea World is shut down?
  1. They can't just dump them in the ocean as they would die.
  2. They couldn't wait for a new calf to be born then dump it in the ocean before it adjusts to the aquarium. It's parents couldn't survive thus they'd be split up, and that also seems to be against your morals.
  3. They are completely different from wild orcas and they know no different. It's too late. What do you want them to do with the whales? They live in captivity and can't be taken out without harm being done.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
@englanddg, I need to tweak your message just a little bit to see if we can get through.
  1. Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have. (Yeah...no need to clarify this. It's obvious.)
  2. Never go outside the expertise of your people. (cherry picking evidence while dismissing other evidence)
  3. Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.(this does not mean you get to make up facts)
  4. Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. (this does not mean to misrepresent their rules)
  5. Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. (the rape comments?)
  6. A good tactic is one your people enjoy. (19 people storming a parade float)
  7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. (Nope...haven't learned that one)
  8. Keep the pressure on. Never let up.
  9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. (Sea World employees dying every day because of "the man!")
  10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. (I don't see this building a national coalition like animal rights did 30 or 40 years ago. Merely it's mental masturbation.)
  11. If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.
  12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. (nope, not presented...they must have missed that day in class)
  13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. (Nuff said)
You left out a random picture...

Funny+Orca+pics.jpg
 

MOXOMUMD

Well-Known Member
And some of those arrested protested at the crowning ceremony of the Rose Bowl queen and her court in November. A beautiful and memorable time in these young women's lives and there's fools chanting about the evils of Sea World outside the church. :bored: What's wrong with these people!
 

JPatton

Active Member
Original Poster
No one said SeaWorld is blameless and they will never say they are perfect.

Well---919Florida---there seems to be more to it than that. I don’t know if it’s due to hubris, or incompetence, or lack of a moral compass, or what it is….but there seems to be intent to deceive in how SeaWorld goes about doing business.

When Tilikum killed Dawn Brancheau they rushed to the microphones to say the wrong thing. Subsequently, they lied under oath in the OSHA trial about Loro Parque. They continue to lie in the recent round of print ads.

Every business commentator that I have read---every one of them without exception---has given your company a failing grade for how it handled Blackfish.

A multi-billion dollar industry has been shaken by a little, no-budget documentary film that dared to say, “The Emperor has no clothes.”

919Florida, you may shrug and say, “Hey, nobody’s perfect. We all make mistakes.” But I am seeing a pattern of deceit and cover-up that go back to the beginning. A corporate culture where lying is commonplace and where telling the truth will probably get you fired. A park that is pretending to be something it’s not.

Look behind the family-friendly public image and it gets ugly. Your company’s treatment of orcas is deplorable.

SeaWorld isn’t above taking some criticism. They’re selling fantasy and escapism---not curing cancer.

Get out if you can.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
And of course, because of Sea World's alleged wrongs, a biased and one-sided documentary, combined with potential vandalism of a parade float, is completely justified. Makes total sense. :bored:

Even more so if you're paid to promote those ideas....
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
Well---919Florida---there seems to be more to it than that. I don’t know if it’s due to hubris, or incompetence, or lack of a moral compass, or what it is….but there seems to be intent to deceive in how SeaWorld goes about doing business.

When Tilikum killed Dawn Brancheau they rushed to the microphones to say the wrong thing. Subsequently, they lied under oath in the OSHA trial about Loro Parque. They continue to lie in the recent round of print ads.

Every business commentator that I have read---every one of them without exception---has given your company a failing grade for how it handled Blackfish.

A multi-billion dollar industry has been shaken by a little, no-budget documentary film that dared to say, “The Emperor has no clothes.”

919Florida, you may shrug and say, “Hey, nobody’s perfect. We all make mistakes.” But I am seeing a pattern of deceit and cover-up that go back to the beginning. A corporate culture where lying is commonplace and where telling the truth will probably get you fired. A park that is pretending to be something it’s not.

Look behind the family-friendly public image and it gets ugly. Your company’s treatment of orcas is deplorable.

SeaWorld isn’t above taking some criticism. They’re selling fantasy and escapism---not curing cancer.

Get out if you can.
I would like to mention that OSHA is a bull@#$% organization that even the Unite States Government doesn't even follow or Obey. I work in a base that has hundreds of OSHA violations but they don't care. And Every base I know people work in the same way. Troops get placed into bunks with more mold then legal required, and handicap accessibility on bases are a joke.
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
I also must find it sad that here we are fighting over whether not Orca treatment is right or wrong, fair or not. But its such a piety thing and we have more issues concerning human affairs and life that we should care more about. If people fought for humanity like they do for animals maybe we would treat animals differently. I don't see people fighting and getting up to arms about the 300,000 American children who are forced into Prostitution a year. Or outcry for African Countries voting to allow rape as appropriate treatment for Lesbian Women or arrest those who are homosexual and imprisoning them. Yet when a celebrity who has no impact of life or law says an anti-gay statement or a documentary gives a one-side story about the "mistreatment" of an orca Everyone rises to arms. No Humanity needs a wake up call. The captivity of an Orca is small and minute compared to the true issues of the world that should be taken care of First and foremost. Then maybe then we can rethink our impact on 54 whales out of a species that we don't even know how prevalent it is.
If your so Dam@ed to be helping the whales look at the numbers decrease of pods in the Alaskan area not caused by captivity but by Oil spills, over fishing, and new toxins found in fish. Whales effected by Exxon Valdez haven't reproduced as of 2009 due to the damage and some pods have from 200-300 to 80 whales. These issues are more likely to kill a whale a lot faster then keeping a whale in a tank doing tricks.
 
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unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I also must find it sad that here we are fighting over whether not Orca treatment is right or wrong, fair or not. But its such a piety thing and we have more issues concerning human affairs and life that we should care more about. If people fought for humanity like they do for animals maybe we would treat animals differently. I don't see people fighting and getting up to arms about the 300,000 American children who are forced into Prostitution a year. Or outcry for African Countries voting to allow rape as appropriate treatment for Lesbian Women or arrest those who are homosexual and imprisoning them. Yet when a celebrity who has no impact of life or law says an anti-gay statement or a documentary gives a one-side story about the "mistreatment" of an orca. No Humanity needs a wake up call. The captivity of an Orca is small and minute compared to the true issues of the world that should be taken care of First and foremost. Then maybe then we can rethink our impact on 54 whales out of a species that we don't even know how prevalent it is.
If your so Dam@ed to be helping the whales look at the numbers decrease of pods in the Alaskan area not caused by captivity but by Oil spills, over fishing, and new toxins found in fish. Whales effected by Exxon Valdez haven't reproduced as of 2009 due to the damage and some pods have from 200-300 to 80 whales. These issues are more likely to kill a whale a lot faster then keeping a whale in a tank doing tricks.
These whales might even be homosexual whales....OMG Whatever should we do about THAT?

Do we DARE let them out into the ocean to try and recruit more homosexual whales? Or should we continue to isolate them from others and let them continue their gay frolicking?
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Well---919Florida---there seems to be more to it than that. I don’t know if it’s due to hubris, or incompetence, or lack of a moral compass, or what it is….but there seems to be intent to deceive in how SeaWorld goes about doing business.

When Tilikum killed Dawn Brancheau they rushed to the microphones to say the wrong thing. Subsequently, they lied under oath in the OSHA trial about Loro Parque. They continue to lie in the recent round of print ads.

Every business commentator that I have read---every one of them without exception---has given your company a failing grade for how it handled Blackfish.

A multi-billion dollar industry has been shaken by a little, no-budget documentary film that dared to say, “The Emperor has no clothes.”

919Florida, you may shrug and say, “Hey, nobody’s perfect. We all make mistakes.” But I am seeing a pattern of deceit and cover-up that go back to the beginning. A corporate culture where lying is commonplace and where telling the truth will probably get you fired. A park that is pretending to be something it’s not.

Look behind the family-friendly public image and it gets ugly. Your company’s treatment of orcas is deplorable.

SeaWorld isn’t above taking some criticism. They’re selling fantasy and escapism---not curing cancer.

Get out if you can.

i thought they were selling trinkets and burgers.

still doing my best to give a !*%^ . but I hate to tell you but if what youve just written shocks you you are going to have a hard time dealing with life in general.

But i do enjoy the ever so sincere musings of a single issue activist.
 

OFTeric

Well-Known Member
Now it is my turn to copy and paste! Ex Orca Trainer Bridge M Pirtle who consulted on BlackFish and worked with Orcas for over 7 years has come out to denounce the film (and she pretty much denounces everything @JPatton has said):

There was clearly an agenda hidden within her initial sales pitch, and, as the saying goes, hindsight is always 20/20. To trust your life’s dedication and your experience to an individual interested in only betraying and exploiting to create an appearance of credibility for those who obviously exaggerate their own time with the animals is disheartening. I am hurt that someone that presents herself as such a caring and compassionate person is capable of this extent of deceit and manipulation.

I have spoken with John, who is a dear friend of mine and colleague, and I currently refer to Blackfish as “The Little Film That Could.” I am proud of the message and credibility he lent to the film. It was one of the few moments honest and respectful to the capacity of these whales and of the relationships trainers like ourselves gave so much to. What could have been a film providing insight to a greater opportunity to inspire change, emphasize responsibility and encourage all to become accountable for our moral obligation to these animals devolved into a mouse trap for the power hungry, destructive and self-serving former trainers lost in their own delusional misrepresentations of their “experience” all in the name of proving something or pushing an agenda. It is encouraging to see another credible source like yourself being forthright with the fallacies prevalent throughout the testimonies of Jeff, John and Sam. I am grateful that Gabriaela was successful at bringing this topic to the mainstream, but I am disappointed it was done so under false pretenses. You are right. We can do better. We owe the animals that much. We have the experience dreams are still made of and that gives us the power to circulate the honest-to-goodness truth, free of hidden agendas and make believe careers. The rational voice amongst this topic is alive and well and reviving my hope of inspiring change for the animals.

In regards to conservation contribution comparisons between SeaWorld and Blackfush: A very bothersome truth to just one of the the plethora of double standards that are strewn throughout the film. Ridiculing for blame while critiquing and blaming themselves. The audacity of those like Jeff and Sam with extremely limited insight into killer whale care to point a finger at Seaworld for their ponytail “tale” yet later criticize, in very poor and in accurate form, the final session of a well-respected, highly experienced trainer is appalling. I could digress upon many such examples hours upon hours. But raising the question of what percentage of profits the very successful documentary Blackfish will contribute to any efforts towards conservation is wise and unavoidable. It’s another platform of blame the anti-caps use that’s assembled since the film’s release in an attempt to stain SeaWorld’s reputation. According to Naomi Rose, merely 1% of SeaWorld’s profits go towards rehab and rescue (May it be noted that, with the unreliable and inconsistent data this researcher has given us, I, personally, take this piece of data with a grain of salt), yet, has any money or will any portion of the millions being profited from this story go to supporting the very cause they are championing for? Or will it simply be parlayed into a down payment on a new house in the Hills? Maybe it’s already set for the next best story to be reenacted at the hands of a director incapable of revealing the whole truth. Rather, she is a master at orchestrating an agenda-based storyline based on many who have reliably misrepresented themselves and, therefore, misinformed the masses. I agree with both John and Mark in that we have a responsibility and an obligation to raise awareness of the truth behind the hype and provide an audience with a message from highly experienced, compassionate and dedicated individuals seeking only to create the best circumstances for animals we love. Collective, we can and we will do better than this little film that could but got lost along the way, intoxicated more by the power rather than by the purpose of the message.

and then

Just posted this-I'm very much looking forward to contributing to the conversation. But, first, I must acknowledge how refreshing it is to see responsible and constructive questions addressed in the aftermath of the film. I am relieved to see that there are journalists still capable of putting things into perspective rationally, fairly weighing the pros and cons without pushing an agenda. Forthcoming questions elicit honest answers. These thoughts reveal that there are hidden motivations geared to manipulate rather than inform. The power of the message was exploited by some that were incapable of answering those approached here accurately, honestly, and from a truly experienced background. As a former animal trainer of ten years (seven of which were spent with orcas), I was hopeful that this film would prove more of an opportunity to constructively address the concerns surrounding captivity. As the layers of this onion were peeled away before me, I became disenchanted with the potential as the reality behind the scenes was revealed. Insight of experienced individuals, like that of Hargrove, Simmons and Ashdown, was swapped for the folklore of others' barely registered presence alongside the whales. The fate of the animals many of us have sacrificed so much for, the animals many of us continue to sacrifice for, was to be left in the hands of failed and fraudulent trainers, radical activists proven to be careless and inconsistent in past rehab projects, and self-proclaimed orca experts recovering from failed publications. Now I have hope that the responsible conversations will take precedence over any subconscious propaganda the film perpetuated. What was once promised to never become aligned amongst activism has been lost amongst the muck of its destruction. With these questions, let's bring back the light to the message that has been lost within the power of one's agenda. Let us not exploit, but explore the opportunity to respect the memory of those we have loved and lost as we constructively approach solutions to provide better circumstances for those each of us has given so much for.

She posted this on Facebook tonight.
https://www.facebook.com/NetworkofExperiencedExTrainers/posts/1435512300003231

So yes BlackFish is BS, it had an agenda, and they swapped out experienced trainers for those with no experience, and an agenda.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
I would like to mention that OSHA is a bull@#$% organization that even the Unite States Government doesn't even follow or Obey. I work in a base that has hundreds of OSHA violations but they don't care. And Every base I know people work in the same way. Troops get placed into bunks with more mold then legal required, and handicap accessibility on bases are a joke.

Did you read the OSHA report for the fatal monorail accident and the OSHA report for the 2 deaths at Primeval Whirl? They did not let Disney off the hook.

My Dad ended his career working for OSHA. He inspected schools being renovated by taking asbestos out of schools. The moment a contractor varied from set procedures he shut the site down. He cared a great deal about the students and staff that had to return to those buildings. I take great offense to your comments about OSHA being a bull@#$% organization. Nobody is going to take you seriously as you have your outcries for humanity around the world if you fill your posts with overly exaggerated comments. They then come off as BS.
 
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