News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Brer Oswald]

I think part of the issue is the different attraction styles between Disney and Universal. Universal has very few attractions I actually enjoy riding -- when I went, with express pass, we could have been on every attraction I like across both parks in one day with no problem. Outside of the HP areas, there's not a ton of interesting themed spaces to visit either that could suck up more time. Epic Universe might change that, but from what we know about it thus far it seems like more of the same in terms of attraction styles (and there's nothing wrong with that; plenty of people love them).

My guess is a lot of people who enjoy Disney enjoy things about Disney that Universal only offers in much smaller portions, so it's very possible for those people to do all of Universal that interests them in a couple of days.

Disney was the absolute king at theme park dark rides and family rides for decades. For the last 10 years, they’ve been trying to capture what Universal has with Potter, achieving varying degrees of success (none as great as the Wizarding World).

 

[Brer Oswald]

I disagree and the financials would as well. Pooh, Mickey and Friends, and Star Wars as franchised have grossed over $60 billion dollars (each). MCU, Princesses, and Potter have grossed over 30 billion (each). Mario and its associated characters have grossed 7 billion. It doesn’t help that the land they are building has one not so great attraction and most of the fun interactive aspects of it require the purchase of a $40 wristband

Mario games have grossed a total of at least 10 billion just on the Nintendo Switch (so essentially the last 6 years of a 40 year history). Mario Kart 8 Deluxe alone has made over 3 billion.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Mario games have grossed a total of at least 10 billion just on the Nintendo Switch (so essentially the last 6 years of a 40 year history). Mario Kart 8 Deluxe alone has made over 3 billion.

The numbers I used were from the perspective of a media franchise, so I guess they didn’t include video game sales. Regardless, I think it’s a pretty solid argument that Mario does not hold the same weight as a franchise as others mentioned here

 

[Brer Oswald]

The numbers I used were from the perspective of a media franchise, so I guess they didn’t include video game sales. Regardless, I think it’s a pretty solid argument that Mario does not hold the same weight as a franchise as others mentioned here

Mario is a video game franchise, so it’s rather natural that most of the sales would come from video games.

 

[drizgirl]

Disney was the absolute king at theme park dark rides and family rides for decades. For the last 10 years, they’ve been trying to capture what Universal has with Potter, achieving varying degrees of success (none as great as the Wizarding World).

I 100% agree. They've been chasing lightning in a bottle ever since this happened.

 

[UNCgolf]

Disney was the absolute king at theme park dark rides and family rides for decades. For the last 10 years, they’ve been trying to capture what Universal has with Potter, achieving varying degrees of success (none as great as the Wizarding World).

Yep, and it's why most of Disney's recent attractions aren't very interesting to me.

It's also a bit silly, because Wizarding World's success is heavily reliant on the IP itself. Universal did an amazing job capturing the IP (especially in Diagon Alley), but if they'd executed something at the exact same quality level based on a smaller IP, it would not have nearly the same success.

 

[Alanzo]

I 100% agree. They've been chasing lightning in a bottle ever since this happened.

View attachment 699761

I think Universal might be chasing this lightning in a bottle too. Harry Potter as an IP was a friggin' cultural phenomenom that we may never see again.

Maybe Lord of the Rings? Or has that ship sailed. IDK.

 

[UNCgolf]

Mario is a video game franchise, so it’s rather natural that most of the sales would come from video games.

Mario also has dozens and dozens of games (I actually think it's well over 100) spread across several decades and a variety of genres -- it's really hard to compare with anything else. A significant portion of Mario game purchasers don't really care about Mario and the characters as an IP; they just enjoy the game design and associate Mario with quality. It's not like there's much of a story or even real characterization to the Mario franchise characters beyond some simple broad strokes.

That's not to suggest Mario isn't a big franchise, because it is, or that no one cares about the characters, because of course some people do, but I think it's hard to argue it's even remotely close to being on the same level as something like Harry Potter or Star Wars.

Even video game franchises like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto generally make far more money per title than Mario does (which isn't a totally fair comparison either since some Mario titles were never intended to be more than small offshoots, but it's a factor of Mario having so many games).

 

[MadderAdder]

I also find Mario and friends to be way way way less emotionally significant and/or tied to deep
nostalgia. But that may just be me.

 

[Tonto]

Mario absolutely has an equal or larger hold on culture than all of the franchises you just listed.

No doubt there is nostalgia and love for Mario, but there is a large segment that can give 2 hoots about Mario including me. Also, kids arn't clamoring for Mario. Its the 40-50 something crowd that is. I think Mario is more of a niche than you think.

 

[doctornick]

I think Universal might be chasing this lightning in a bottle too. Harry Potter as an IP was a friggin' cultural phenomenom that we may never see again.

I think more specifically it was an untapped cultural phenomenon that we will never see again. Every IP now is marketed and sold out the wazzou, but what made the opening of WWOHP unique is that it was really tough to find Potter merchandise or anything really themed to the IP.

 

[doctornick]

No doubt there is nostalgia and love for Mario, but there is a large segment that can give 2 hoots about Mario including me. Also, kids arn't clamoring for Mario. Its the 40-50 something crowd that is. I think Mario is more of a niche than you think.

One of my questions/thoughts about Mario but aren't those games limited to only Nintendo gaming systems? Not everyone has a Switch or Wii, etc even among gamers. A lot of people might only have Playstations or XBox and unlikely games made for all platforms, this would limit exposure to Mario for many folks.

 

[celluloid]

One of my questions/thoughts about Mario but aren't those games limited to only Nintendo gaming systems? Not everyone has a Switch or Wii, etc even among gamers. A lot of people might only have Playstations or XBox and unlikely games made for all platforms, this would limit exposure to Mario for many folks.

Cultural Zeitgeist. Someone has owned or played on one of those systems. They are the most sold video game characters and systems of all time.

It also has had cartoon series and spin offs including a movie(that likely becomes a series)that is about to be a big hit for Universal.

I agree it is a different sort of property emotionally as humans tend not to connect the same way with it as the allegories in Star Wars or Potter.

It is in fact a zeitgeist on the level of The Mickey Mouse Cartoons featured in MMRR, or Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse in Philharmagic which can only be seen if you have The Disney Channel or Disney Plus. Mario and his world is a pop culture phenom going on 40 years old, in that sense, similar to that character.

Universal benefits as a brand enhancing as people now know they knock their own expectations out of the park.

 

[2bornot2be]

I really don’t think Disney is worrying about Universal, this whole Blue Sky thing is more about Disney increasing MK capacity than a response to Universal 3rd gate. Currently Disney is limiting people from entering the park so any guest Universal takes away is not hurting the bottom line as much as Disney is hurting their own bottom line.

 

[Dranth]

I’ve played at least some of every mainline Mario game starting from the first Mario Bros all the way through Odyssey and while he is iconic, he has always felt empty. There is no character there, no developed personality. Saying “Waahoo” or muttering an occasional phrase in a stereotypical Italian accent doesn’t form a “person”. It is all the other characters that do the story telling which is on purpose as Mario Is meant to be a vessel for the player. He might be wildly recognizable but I’m not so sure he is the draw some believe.

Maybe the movie starts to change that.

 

[JoeCamel]

I really don’t think Disney is worrying about Universal, this whole Blue Sky thing is more about Disney increasing MK capacity than a response to Universal 3rd gate. Currently Disney is limiting people from entering the park so any guest Universal takes away is not hurting the bottom line as much as Disney is hurting their own bottom line.

The blue sky thing was Josh and Bob scraping the WDI trash barrel for anything to wave around at D23 because they can see Nintendo racing at them full steam as you see by the pages of off topic discussion about Mario cluttering this thread. A nothing gesture meant to placate fans who paid crazy to sit and listen to it.

 

[invader]

So funny to read the posts from earlier today about chasing the Potter phenomenon and thinking about how Disney had the perfect IP in Star Wars and they chose to build SWGE.

 

[celluloid]

So funny to read the posts from earlier today about chasing the Potter phenomenon and thinking about how Disney had the perfect IP in Star Wars and they chose to build SWGE.

One that they had complete creative control over too.
We are honestly lucky we got something as good as Rise of the resistance thanks to Scott Trowbridge and team.

 

[MrPromey]

I really don’t think Disney is worrying about Universal, this whole Blue Sky thing is more about Disney increasing MK capacity than a response to Universal 3rd gate. Currently Disney is limiting people from entering the park so any guest Universal takes away is not hurting the bottom line as much as Disney is hurting their own bottom line.

If it was about increasing MK capacity, it would have been announced as something they're actually going to build.

How does announcing in the most general way possible with absolutely zero comitment, that they have some concepts they've been considering at D23 fix capacity?

They didn't even have the decency to announce these projects absolutely were coming before quietly shelving them like they did with the main street theater.

 

[Drdcm]

So funny to read the posts from earlier today about chasing the Potter phenomenon and thinking about how Disney had the perfect IP in Star Wars and they chose to build SWGE.

Star Wars is my HP equivalent. I like GE, but not to the level it should have been. I actually think the two are quite similar. Disney needs another ride though.

I will say this. The first time I went was before COVID and I had a lot of fun. The next two times were when we still had social distancing. I couldn’t enjoy the atmosphere at all because all the shops and food places had massive lines due to social distancing rules.