A Spirited Summer Special (AKA Phil Holmes Takes Anaheim!)

[BrerJon]

This shouldn't be something to hold off for another four years. Another much younger Orlando roller coaster just got a full track rebuild.

Also Space Mountain, being a rickety boneshaker in the dark, is scary enough that if there was a death, they'd pretty much have to demolish it as nobody would have confidence to ride it again.

With outdoor coasters people can see the cause of accidents and any repairs or changes in policy, ie after the Big Thunder Mountain incidents, but with Space Mountain there's no way the public would be able to trust they were safe - that should make it an extreme priority to get fixed.

Leaving it to rot until the track collapses, as they appear to be doing at the moment, risks irreparable damage to the company's reputation.

 

[Bocabear]

I rode it a month ago, and it was not a rickety boneshaker... that's a bit of an exagerration... Yes it is not as smooth as it once was, but it is not THAT bad... Sure wish they would do a major revamp but keep the original track layout...which is pretty amazing. Disneyland's version is just a series of banking curves with a gentle downslope... I love that WDW's version has actual drops, changes direction and dramatic height changes... If it were a bit smoother and had upgraded audio and special effects it would easily be the best Space Mountain ever!

 

[Lipinski82]

Also Space Mountain, being a rickety boneshaker in the dark, is scary enough that if there was a death, they'd pretty much have to demolish it as nobody would have confidence to ride it again.

With outdoor coasters people can see the cause of accidents and any repairs or changes in policy, ie after the Big Thunder Mountain incidents, but with Space Mountain there's no way the public would be able to trust they were safe - that should make it an extreme priority to get fixed.

Leaving it to rot until the track collapses, as they appear to be doing at the moment, risks irreparable damage to the company's reputation.

Agreed - Space needs to be gutted as it was supposed to be originally. It is by far the worst of the Space Mountain's. The speakers with music they added about 8 years ago are almost all non-functional. I would say about 2/3 do not work. Half the time I ride most of the star / planet effects are not working either. I have also noticed in the past few months, half the cars have wheels that shake and make the entire ride vehicle very loud on the track and the vehicle shakes/vibrates like crazy. Another one that honestly is comparable to a carnival ride to me is Peter Pan. It is atrocious. The volocano still as tin foil inside of it, the water is wood, curtains are visible everywhere, animations have been broken half the time for the last year. Why can't they spring for lighting if nothing else to spruce it up a bit ? Pooh is not much better and it has been down constantly as of recent. The speaker when Tigger is bouncing has been broken for what, 5-6 years ? It is ridiculous the easy fixes they could do to make these rides even a bit more up to speed.

As for the price hikes --- does anyone else but me think this has a LOT to do with attendance ? We have been picking up reservations for hard to book restaurants like crazy. Any time we want. More than the usual cancellations. The latest ticket price hike was in early March. The next big holiday was Easter. This was the first time in ten years the park was not filled to capacity. Fourth of July, same thing. I would blame July 4th on recent events in Orlando BUT the same thing happened for the very first holiday after the price hikes. I do not find that to be a coincidence. I am in the park every single week and the summer this year has been slower than a non-busy day in the last five years. It is very nice for a passholder BUT I honestly think a lot of it is pricing. How does Disney think raising prices even more is going to help them in the long run ? We are a party of 2 and I refuse to pay $60 for character dining come October. These families of 5 who are already paying 100 / 150 more per day to enter the park are most likely not going to be able to afford to pay $15-20 more per person for dinner.

 

[ford91exploder]

Two years ago, a group of Disney engineers told me they absolutely would not ride Space Mt. in its current condition.

The only reason DL received new track is that one morning before the park opened, a chunk pretty much fell apart. (It wasn't that dramatic, but there was significant stress on the tracks.) This prompted a sudden closure and accelerated refurb in California.

For some unknown reason*, Disney is willing to replace the tracks on every coaster except Space Mt.

* Who am I kidding? Phil Holmes cut the Space Mt refurb costs because he wanted a bigger bonus.

Yeah the welders parked permanently outside the SM show building do not inspire confidence, Yes 99.5% of visitors have no clue what those big blue boxes that say Miller on the side do, But some of us do know, And those are damn big welders which are used for structural work and pipelines so this is not simply a plant maintenance welder.

 

[BernardandBianca]

This video showing the chinese at Shanghai Disney Resort has starting going viral today.

Guess the desire to eliminate benches has spread worldwide

 

[ford91exploder]

The ride's maintenance crew seemed concerned enough about the ride's safety that they didn't feel comfortable continuing to operate it at its original speed and force. This concern prompted them to add brakes to reduce the wear on the aging track and support. Their concern is enough for me to be concerned as well.

Could be entirely safe, could have issues we're not aware of. What I do know is that the discomfort level has been getting progressively worse in recent years (and this is a ride that was already very bumpy 20 years ago), and Disney seemed uncomfortable continuing to run it at the original speed. Even in the best case scenario, it's a far slower and less fun (and more painful) experience than it once was.

One hopes they have a massive rehab planned ASAP, with a complete track rebuild. Anyone know of such a thing happening anytime soon?

No chance with the need to show Wall St. ever increasing margins at P&R with virtually non-existant capital spending, One day park goers will enter to find construction walls around SM and it will be closed for years.

 

[Variable]

So clearly Disney is paying off safety inspectors, doctoring test results or what? What exactly are the accusations being leveled here? Is there any evidence of criminal negligence?

Either the rides are certified as safe by the State of Florida/California or they're not.

Are you all calling for stricter standards? Have you contacted anyone at the State level? Is there a whistle blower that needs support to come forward?

 

[Andrew C]

So clearly Disney is paying off safety inspectors, doctoring test results or what? What exactly are the accusations being leveled here? Is there any evidence of criminal negligence?

Either the rides are certified as safe by the State of Florida/California or they're not.

Are you all calling for stricter standards? Have you contacted anyone at the State level? Is there a whistle blower that needs support to come forward?

I am on the side that they learned their lesson after DL's big thunder terrible fiasco...

 

[Variable]

I am on the side that they learned their lesson after DL's big thunder terrible fiasco...

Ai yi yi! I had forgotten all about that. I'm getting old.

I don't mean to downplay concerns, certainly not past events. Still, if some of you truly deeply believe SM is a death trap, and you have some evidence, you owe to humanity the taking of these concerns beyond an Internet forum. You have to find a way.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So clearly Disney is paying off safety inspectors, doctoring test results or what? What exactly are the accusations being leveled here? Is there any evidence of criminal negligence?

Either the rides are certified as safe by the State of Florida/California or they're not.

Are you all calling for stricter standards? Have you contacted anyone at the State level? Is there a whistle blower that needs support to come forward?

The State of Florida doesn't inspect and certify the big parks. That is handled internally by the operators.

 

[Bocabear]

Doesn anyone have any proof beyond conjecture that the ride is unsafe? or is it just the thought that it is a little rough, so it must be dangerous? Seems like we could create an entire *%$#storm over a perception that the ride is unsafe, when it might just be a little rough...
I mean, if we are throwing out there talk about inspectors and cover-ups, do we have any real documented evidence that there is a problem?

 

[Andrew C]

Doesn anyone have any proof beyond conjecture that the ride is unsafe? or is it just the thought that it is a little rough, so it must be dangerous? Seems like we could create an entire *%$#storm over a perception that the ride is unsafe, when it might just be a little rough...
I mean, if we are throwing out there talk about inspectors and cover-ups, do we have any real documented evidence that there is a problem?

if someone actually did have evidence, I figured they would take it to the proper authorities to get the attraction shut down immediately. Would you let people ride a "death trap" if you had real proof that it was one? I wouldn't.

 

[Bocabear]

if someone actually did have evidence, I figured they would take it to the proper authorities to get the attraction shut down immediately. Would you let people ride a "death trap" if you had real proof that is was one? I wouldn't.

Exactly...so I think it is just a lot of conjecture...

 

[Variable]

The State of Florida doesn't inspect and certify the big parks. That is handled internally by the operators.

So Fla, 616 doesn't apply? How do they define, WHERE do they define the exemption? I know there are various Gvt certified self certify regs.

I'm really interested in the flow, the rights/responsibilities stuff. I guess I like to see the map, the terrain. So I ask. Sometimes I ask incorrectly.

Some of you guys are so deep into this, the amount of institutional type knowledge is quite impressive.

 

[Horizons1]

This video showing the chinese at Shanghai Disney Resort has starting going viral today.

Really doesn't look much different than Orlando.

 

[wdwfan22]

Does anyone else ever find it strange that for a resort that supposedly does everything better than Florida, Disneyland has had more attraction accidents with injuries do to malfunctions then Orlando.

 

[Andrew C]

Does anyone else ever find it strange that for a resort that supposedly does everything better than Florida, Disneyland has had more attraction accidents with injuries do to malfunctions then Orlando.

DL a decade or so ago was no bueno according to many...

 

[COProgressFan]

Does anyone else ever find it strange that for a resort that supposedly does everything better than Florida, Disneyland has had more attraction accidents with injuries do to malfunctions then Orlando.

I don't think anyone has said here that DL does everything better than Orlando. But in its current state of management they certainly get a lot more right today, than WDW does today.

The string of a few serious and deadly incidents at DL took place in the late 90's and early 2000s, when DL was run by a group of folks concerned more about selling plush and less about safely operating those costly, pesky rides that people seem to want to go on. Maintenance budgets were slashed, repairs were outsourced without appropriate oversight, projects were deferred, and the philosophy of safety first was mere lip service. I believe one stated plan was to replace parts as they failed, not conduct appropriate preventive maintenance before things go wrong. It was a toxic culture. There were dead canaries in the coal mine (so to speak), but no one took them seriously.

Today, things are a bit different. DL emerged quite successfully after this dark period with some major changes in their operation. All is not perfect today but it is much better than it had been for a while from a show and guest service stand point.

When you see how they cut back basic operations to the bone at WDW, it certainly makes you wonder about safety. (Sort of like if you get on an old or dirty plane...makes you wonder how far the cuts go). As WDW fans, we have seen the negative changes at WDW, and are hoping that WDW can see a positive future with the right vision and leadership. Cautious optimism, but knowing that nothing can really change without a total rethinking of how this business unit operates.

 

[COProgressFan]

I've been to Disney Springs multiple times this summer on weekdays and weekends and each time it's been pretty crowded. All of the restaurants were crowded especially Boathouse. I've never seen that restaurant not have a crowd. We usually eat at Splitsville and normally all of the lanes are full and the restaurant portion typically at least 50% full. The stores have been doing well from what I've seen except for Johnston & Murphy and Kate Spade. There's hardy anyone ever in those stores when I walk by. Zara, Uni-qlo, and Under Armour appear to be the strongest tenants

Hearing some management is less than thrilled that the new Uniqlo sells a huge variety of Disney t-shirts for $15. Pandora, Alex and Ani and Vera Bradley are also undercutting Disney prices. Disney of course sells their items across property at higher price points than these tenants do. Sales at marketplace are down since busses now drop off at Springs, and the offerings at the marketplace side are not as enticing (same overpriced Disney products as the rest of property). Anyone surprised?

 

[Sped2424]

Really doesn't look much different than Orlando.

In all my years of going to the parks I have never seen a kid in the bushes at the Magic Kingdom. Or had tourists that close to me In line.