Monorail Accident

A lot of people might flame me for what I'm going to say, but something I read in the news in the last couple days, triggered an "oh no" scenerio for the driver of monorail pink. THIS IS ALL speculation at this point, but based on past scenerios (with AND without other factors involved...and yes, there's been some involving switches and spur lines). I hope this does NOT happen, but again...food for thought.....

This week a train operator in Boston was indicted on charges of the negligent operation of a train. I've since found laws and cases in FL that have indicted similar individuals of similar accidents. These charges were issued apparently after the final NTSB report that placed a beyond-reasonable negligence on the operator.

If Orange County and the NTSB (who dangerously are still involved in the investigation) find that through their overnight testings...the pilot of Pink had multiple indications that he was on the wrong line...and did not stop...that would be negligence, especially because it ended in a death. Now if they find there was absolutely no way he could have known he was on the wrong line...he'd be home free. (Personal opinion time - I think that might be a major part in the investigation, is figuring out whether or not he was capable of knowing his train was where it shouldn't have been).

I TRULY hope for his sake that they find nothing against him. Maybe fog? Just wishful thinking.

Again, yes...it was a feat of the system. Yes, I'm sure we all know faults will be found with the coordinators, managers, shop engineers, platform cast members, etc etc etc. But there is no law in place for example that dictates, "Negligence of a platform employee". But there are laws that will incriminate the operators of trains if negligence is involved. And by that, meaning the driver.

As far as I'm aware, there's no law requiring trains to have anti-collision equipment that takes the engineer or operator out of the loop. I think it all matters whether or not the NTSB classifies this as a train accident. Indicators would point to yes since they sent out their railroad investigators.

DISCLAIMER: My op should NOT be read as a "I hope this happens", it should be read as a..."Oh no, this situation could turn even worse, and has the possibility to based on past accidents". But it is my own opinion that I hope they find that there was nothing the operator of monorail pink could have done or known.

RiversideBunny said:

board57796, if someone wanted to be a monorail pilot, what training do they go through? Does the CM ride with an experienced pilot, or use a simulator, etc.?

Tks.

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A Cast Member in 'rails must work the platform ONLY for 3~4 weeks, listening to the radio, watching other Pilots, asking questions. When I was platform only I ALWAYS grabbde the radio (many CMs dont like to have to listen for it) and kill pack and tried to "take charge" of the station. Once they are eligible for drive training, they begin a 5-day schedule, 2 closes, 2 opening and a mid shift. This is so they get exposure to everything; taking trains OUT of Shop, TO shop, through EVERY switch. There is a checklist and you have to complete everything on it, which includes every procedure, and there are a LOT. This is done one-on-one with a trainer. At the end of the week, if you trainer thinks you are proficient, you are schedule for a "check out" lap with another, more experienced trainer. In this day you drive, they sit there and watch you, and its extremely nerve racking. Then you take a written test that is about 3 hours long, then hear word if you passed your check out. When I found out who my check out driver was everyone said "Oh. Well, if they pass you that means youre a good pilot." They were one of the toughest.

Ooops, reposted accidentally.

board57796 said:

... ...When I was platform only I ALWAYS grabbde the radio (many CMs dont like to have to listen for it) and kill pack and tried to "take charge" of the station. . ....

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Could you please explain what a 'kill pack' is? Can the station CM shut down the trains with it?
Tks.

Mono

TraceyC/FL said:

I almost would rather see pink go away, and purple stay as an honor to Austin.

Frankly, the sight of EITHER color won't be a happy thing for me, but if i have to see one, i'd want to remember the hero.

I thought the same thing, but understand the thoughts of others who may find it unsettling - a new shade of the color may work.


I would be honored to ride in Purple( insert other color here).

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board57796 said:

A Cast Member in 'rails must work the platform ONLY for 3~4 weeks, listening to the radio, watching other Pilots, asking questions. When I was platform only I ALWAYS grabbde the radio (many CMs dont like to have to listen for it) and kill pack and tried to "take charge" of the station.

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What is a kill pack?

tnichols said:

What is a kill pack?

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A kill pack is a small rectangular white box with two switches on it, with a clip for a CM to wear on their belt. Hitting the buttons kills power to the beam. Hitting either button will kill power to the station the kill pack is assigned to. These are tested every morning at station opening, and at least one CM at each platform is required to be wearing it. Usually the person with the radio.

One problem I noticed when I was in rails is that people seem to be almost hesitant to kill power, or especially hit their E-Stop in a train. Coordinators and managers tend to frown on both, and I think it should be completely the opposite. I know there have been times where I thought about hitting the kill pack (someone sitting on a railing by the beam) but thought "Central will be mad" and instead asked them to get off the railing.

Maybe whoever was at CC with the killpack hesitated for a few seconds trying to decide of it was a real emergency, and those few seconds could have made a difference. Who knows.

Buried20KLeague said:

Not good PR.

Unless you're Denny's, I suppose... :lookaroun

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Not even for them.

From WESH

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Walt Disney World has taken disciplinary action against two employees believed to be involved in coordinating monorail switching at the time of Sunday's fatal crash, according to two sources with knowledge of the investigation.

According to the two sources, including one with Disney, the theme park has suspended two employees without pay in the wake of the incident.
Disney Monorail

One employee suspended is the on-duty manager who WESH 2 News first reported Wednesday was at a Lake Buena Vista restaurant relaying instructions via two-way radio when the crash happened.

The monorail central coordinator had gone home sick Sunday, which is why the manager was handling those duties by radio.

A maintenance person taking switching instructions on the other end of the radio was also suspended, sources close to the investigation told WESH 2.

A former monorail driver WESH 2 News talked to said despite the manager not being on site, the two monorail pilots involved and another person equipped with a manual kill switch still should have known the trains were on a collision course.

A report released Wednesday by the National Transportation Safety Board said the victim Austin Wuennenberg, 21, did stop his train and try to back up in an apparent attempt to avoid the train coming right at him.
Austin Wuennenberg
Austin Wuennenberg in his Facebook photo.

The NTSB also indicated in its report mechanical error does not appear to be at the root of the switching malfunction, but it's unclear who or what is.

A Disney spokeswoman won't confirm any details but said they are continuing to cooperate with the investigating agencies.

KeeKee said:

From WESH

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Walt Disney World has taken disciplinary action against two employees believed to be involved in coordinating monorail switching at the time of Sunday's fatal crash, according to two sources with knowledge of the investigation.

According to the two sources, including one with Disney, the theme park has suspended two employees without pay in the wake of the incident.
Disney Monorail

One employee suspended is the on-duty manager who WESH 2 News first reported Wednesday was at a Lake Buena Vista restaurant relaying instructions via two-way radio when the crash happened.

The monorail central coordinator had gone home sick Sunday, which is why the manager was handling those duties by radio.

A maintenance person taking switching instructions on the other end of the radio was also suspended, sources close to the investigation told WESH 2.

A former monorail driver WESH 2 News talked to said despite the manager not being on site, the two monorail pilots involved and another person equipped with a manual kill switch still should have known the trains were on a collision course.

A report released Wednesday by the National Transportation Safety Board said the victim Austin Wuennenberg, 21, did stop his train and try to back up in an apparent attempt to avoid the train coming right at him.
Austin Wuennenberg
Austin Wuennenberg in his Facebook photo.

The NTSB also indicated in its report mechanical error does not appear to be at the root of the switching malfunction, but it's unclear who or what is.

A Disney spokeswoman won't confirm any details but said they are continuing to cooperate with the investigating agencies.

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Hmmm... No mention of the driver of pink.

Wonder if that means he's "in the clear", or if they're just not sure yet what to do. That might be part of what the testing last night was about too.

capio said:

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19995851/detail.html

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According to the report:

“The Pink train was then instructed to back through the track switch, towards the Magic Kingdom loop.”

The report also says:

“To this point in the investigation, no anomalies or malfunctions have been found with the automatic train stop system or with any mechanical components of the switch or with either of the trains.”

What it does not say is whether or not the switch was ever thrown or if the shop ever confirmed the switch was thrown.

So what are the possibilities?

The shop never threw the switch and never radioed in, but central instructed Pink to reverse anyway? Possible, but this does not sound likely.

The shop never threw the switch (or threw the wrong switch), but did radio in confirming it? I guess that is possible. The report does not say for sure. Too bad we cannot listen to the recording of the radio transmissions. I know there are computer logs of the pilot’s actions on the trains, but are there logs on the switches?

I'm not entirely sure there would be a "recording of the radio transmissions". The letter to "the media" suggests that the FCC should release the recordings, I almost positive the FCC isn't allowed to record transmissions, to say nothing of the amount of storage that would be required to store recordings of all transmissions...

Buried20KLeague said:

Hmmm... No mention of the driver of pink.

Wonder if that means he's "in the clear", or if they're just not sure yet what to do. That might be part of what the testing last night was about too.

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The report clearly says that Pink was instructed to reverse. But other people said Pink should have been able to tell they were not on the spur.

KeeKee said:

From WESH

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Walt Disney World has taken disciplinary action against two employees believed to be involved in coordinating monorail switching at the time of Sunday's fatal crash, according to two sources with knowledge of the investigation.

According to the two sources, including one with Disney, the theme park has suspended two employees without pay in the wake of the incident.
Disney Monorail

One employee suspended is the on-duty manager who WESH 2 News first reported Wednesday was at a Lake Buena Vista restaurant relaying instructions via two-way radio when the crash happened.

The monorail central coordinator had gone home sick Sunday, which is why the manager was handling those duties by radio.

A maintenance person taking switching instructions on the other end of the radio was also suspended, sources close to the investigation told WESH 2.

A former monorail driver WESH 2 News talked to said despite the manager not being on site, the two monorail pilots involved and another person equipped with a manual kill switch still should have known the trains were on a collision course.

A report released Wednesday by the National Transportation Safety Board said the victim Austin Wuennenberg, 21, did stop his train and try to back up in an apparent attempt to avoid the train coming right at him.
Austin Wuennenberg
Austin Wuennenberg in his Facebook photo.

The NTSB also indicated in its report mechanical error does not appear to be at the root of the switching malfunction, but it's unclear who or what is.

A Disney spokeswoman won't confirm any details but said they are continuing to cooperate with the investigating agencies.

Click to expand...

I am shocked and saddened by this entire event. I'm not sure if this link has been posted about the negligent CM's at Denny's:

http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20000629/detail.html

I'm glad Disney suspended them...we'll see what the law decides to do with them. They could be in serious legal trouble! That one bad decision will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

I feel really bad for the driver of monorail pink. It doesn't sound like it was their fault and I'm sure they feel overwhelmingly responsible. I would if I were them.

I was in WDW in March of this year and I wonder if Austin drove one of the many monorails I rode in. Purple has always been my favorite and I would hate to see the color retired. It's very sad that Austin did not jump from the cabin and tried to back the train up in order to avoid injury to any of his passengers. He was a real hero. RIP.

Fashionista007 said:

I feel really bad for the driver of monorail pink. It doesn't sound like it was their fault and I'm sure they feel overwhelmingly responsible. I would if I were them.

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Yep, I'm sure they feel overwhelmingly responsible. But my personal opinion is that if they find that he wasn't paying attention while backing his train up...and he WAS able to know that he wasn't where he was supposed to be...I would definitely say he had the 'most' burden and fault on his shoulders out of anyone...as he was the one responsible for the train ultimately.

Just because the policeman says to cross the street when there are cars zipping by, doesn't mean you're going to...without making sure the path is safely clear.

Was he able to see whether the path was clear? Was he able to know that he wasn't where he was supposed to be? Speculation among existing and former monorail pilots is...yes. BUT, we won't know that until the final NTSB and OSHA reports come out.

This might be a stupid question but, could you make it so that a pilot never has to be in override unless there is an emergency? Could you program the monorail to take it to where it needs to be without having anything overridden by the pilot? Just program it to do the part where the pilot overrides. The danger seems to be in the overriding.

It does seem like there is a lot of routine use of the override setting.
That compromises the purpose of the automatic safety system.

The thing that surprised me the most, however, is that the monorail trains are commonly operated in reverse without a pilot in the forward facing cabin.

old controls used until 2007

new controls used since 2007

found these pics of the old controls and the new controls

CM's SUSPENDED

Translation soon to be FIRED Duckberg :brick:

WESH is reporting THREE suspensions, including the driver of Pink.

http://www.wesh.com/news/20003663/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Walt Disney World has suspended three employees with pay in the wake of Sunday's fatal monorail crash, Disney spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez confirmed Thursday.
Suarez said the action against the employees is part of the investigative process, and is not necessarily disciplinary.

The employees suspended are a monorail shop cast member, the monorail transportation manager on duty and a monorail pilot. WESH 2 News first reported Wednesday was a monorail manager was off site at a Lake Buena Vista restaurant relaying instructions via two-way radio when the crash happened. It is unknown if that person is the one suspended.

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