A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ford91exploder]

This is my thinking too. It's a remote possibility that the Chinese government could just "take" the park from Disney. I'm thinking it would take something just short of actual declared war with the U.S. If that happens the fate of some theme park is going to be the last thing I'm worried about.

Assuming we manage to avoid WWIII, it's in the best interest of the Chinese government to have this park succeed and have Disney as a partner. If successful they may actually want to build several more parks.

Has nothing to do with being on a war footing, If China decides that the park is better for CHINA in Chinese hands alone then that is what will happen.

 

[ford91exploder]

Maybe it was naivete, but I've been told that business partnerships in China were treated as trusted friendships, not "how fast can I screw over and expel my partner."

They are IF you are CHINESE, If you are Gwai Lo - ghost person or Round Eyed Devil well different rules apply

 

[ford91exploder]

If the park is successful, it's not a matter of getting rid of Disney but instead it's a matter of "How much can I squeeze Disney?"

Business people don't sit around and say, "I'm making enough, no need to make more." Usually they're looking for opportunities to increase their positions and, sometimes, that means squeezing their alleged "business partners".

Who is Disney going to complain to if they get squeezed?

Their pillow.

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't know the numbers of people involved or what positions they will fill at SDL but cast I know tell me they have on boarded a great number of Chinese college students as part of the WDW International College Program over the past few years. Many of them openly say they are going to be working at SDL. They also have groups of post college age Chinese being taken around the MK on stage and behind the scenes. Some have been introduced as management for SDL Very smart by the Chinese as well as Disney.

The Chinese are playing multi-level chess while the Gwai Lo are playing checkers.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I believe 57 percent Shendi 43 percent Disney.

I could be wrong though.

You're right.

 

[RandySavage]

I've only seen the few pictures of the park you posted, but I feel that the individual buildings themselves are quite well themed. After searching up the rest of the park, I would agree the park as whole looks like a jumbled mess of buildings and themes that do not flow together at all to create a seamless immersive experience. I do think for a non-Disney/Universal park, they've managed to create some pretty elaborate facades. Much better than other knock-offs I've seen.

It's for another thread, but it would be fun to go through just the "main street" photo of that park and point out everything so utterly wrong. In short, a convincing structure in any park has, at its foundation, an actual believable source (20th/19th western architecture for Main Street). The designer needs to understand established principles to create anything believable. The designers of that park had no understanding of real architecture upon which Disneyland was based, just the Disneyland model (which they so poorly copied). Note the windows (not indicating where the actual floors would be), the windowless dormers, etc. The knock-off park becomes absurdist when you study it.

 

[ford91exploder]

But this has not played out in this manner. Disney has been given a huge amount of control when it comes to construction. A big part of why shoddy construction is so rampant is because it is so tied into the state, a state that by its ideological nature cannot be wrong. Disney is essentially being allowed to engage in sedition in a dictatorship.

We hear shoddy construction as the excuse in the US - But none of us know exactly WHERE that money went it would not surprise me in the least if Shendi said the cost of your partnership is going up by $800 million. Pay up or get out.

 

[GoofGoof]

There is also no reason to KEEP Disney either if Shendi believes it has the capacity to run the park.

Has nothing to do with being on a war footing, If China decides that the park is better for CHINA in Chinese hands alone then that is what will happen.

The Chinese government wants foreign investment. If they decide to just seize the assets of TWDC for no good reason they can, but it would be devastating to the prospect of future investment in their country. This is a major investment by a well know company.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe it was naivete, but I've been told that business partnerships in China were treated as trusted friendships, not "how fast can I screw over and expel my partner."

They are. A lot of the screwing over, such as producing unlicensed copies with original equipment, also owes a lot to the culture of the Cultural Revolution. People in general tend to have trouble grasping intellectual property rights when they are not the rights holders or are not directly impacted. This is compounded in China where most people who are the age to be leading a business grew up during a time where a belief in intellectual property was a good way to get yourself shot. We're now at the point where the pressure for strong protections is shifting from external (the US, WTO, etc.) to internal. In order for China to really make the next steps towards true shaper of the global order means establishing and maintaining structures of order. this is why graft has become such an important issue, the structures are there but they lack the order.

And to tie this back to Disney, both Disney and China and bureaucracies. They are the same sort of beasts. They know each other quite well because they are very similar to each other.

 

[ford91exploder]

The Chinese government wants foreign investment. If they decide to just seize the assets of TWDC for no good reason they can, but it would be devastating to the prospect of future investment in their country. This is a major investment by a well know company.

It will be no more than a speedbump, Companies just see MONEY when they see China they do not realistically evaluate risk.

 

[GoofGoof]

It will be no more than a speedbump, Companies just see MONEY when they see China they do not realistically evaluate risk.

So why haven't all the established American businesses in China been seized than. Why not take all the Starbucks locations? Surely the Chinese can run a chain of coffee shops on their own?

 

[ford91exploder]

They are. A lot of the screwing over, such as producing unlicensed copies with original equipment, also owes a lot to the culture of the Cultural Revolution. People in general tend to have trouble grasping intellectual property rights when they are not the rights holders or are not directly impacted. This is compounded in China where most people who are the age to be leading a business grew up during a time where a belief in intellectual property was a good way to get yourself shot. We're now at the point where the pressure for strong protections is shifting from external (the US, WTO, etc.) to internal. In order for China to really make the next steps towards true shaper of the global order means establishing and maintaining structures of order. this is why graft has become such an important issue, the structures are there but they lack the order.

And to tie this back to Disney, both Disney and China and bureaucracies. They are the same sort of beasts. They know each other quite well because they are very similar to each other.

Chinese culture does not understand the concept of individual property rights, If a farmer made a better tool soon his whole village was producing it. China since the dawn of their civilization has been a society which values the collective over the individual. Property rights are going to be a tough sell.

 

[ford91exploder]

So why haven't all the established American businesses in China been seized than. Why not take all the Starbucks locations? Surely the Chinese can run a chain of coffee shops on their own?

No strategic advantage - there is no great benefit for China in seizing those assets, Just ask Fellowes about building shredders in China - google it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Chinese culture does not understand the concept of individual property rights, If a farmer made a better tool soon his whole village was producing it. China since the dawn of their civilization has been a society which values the collective over the individual. Property rights are going to be a tough sell.

That assessment is just full of huge gaps that basically tries to paint the Chinese as the noble savage. Property rights are not a tough sell, they've already been sold.

 

[BrianLo]

We're talking modern day Shanghai here, not backwater middle of no-where China from decades past. Even if they were looking to steal away the parks (in some fictional universe) at the end of the day, why stop at one half built out gate, when Disney is prepared to build three?

Disney might get a bit of a squeeze, but maybe that's not a bad thing. When secondary partners hold Disney responsible, the results tend to be better for us consumer.

China wants foreign investment, they aren't stupid enough to outright screw Disney when the eyes of the Western World are following the project. Behind the scenes maybe... but not to the remote scope that is being suggested here.

 

[ford91exploder]

That assessment is just full of huge gaps that basically tries to paint the Chinese as the noble savage. Property rights are not a tough sell, they've already been sold.

You don't get it it has nothing to do with Voltare's noble savage. China has been a collectivist society since the time of Confucius where being a 'community man' or qúntǐ de fènz was an achievement of the highest order.

 

[GoofGoof]

No strategic advantage - there is no great benefit for China in seizing those assets, Just ask Fellowes about building shredders in China - google it.

I give up. You win. The park will be assumed by the Chinese government as soon as it finally opens.

 

[ford91exploder]

I give up. You win. The park will be assumed by the Chinese government as soon as it finally opens.

Nah in that case no one wins, All I'm saying is China is a minefield for a unwary western business, To mix IP's they might as well be Klingons or Mimbari as their mindset is diametrically opposed to a western mindset.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You don't get it it has nothing to do with Voltare's noble savage. China has been a collectivist society since the time of Confucius where being a 'community man' or qúntǐ de fènz was an achievement of the highest order.

And yet the Chinese built environment is centered around the private house, with a high surrounding wall and no outward facing windows that only became more private once entered. Or the high level of personal achievement necessary to rise through the civil service. Or how one could assume the Mandate of Heaven. There would have been no need for a Chinese Communist Party or Cultural Revolution if what you describe is true, because it would mean that the dynasties had achieved communism.

 

[Cesar R M]

Although some attempts at copying Disney worked quite well, and some might say surpassed them. Does Disney have Voltron and Ninja Turtles in its 'It's A Small World'? Why no, no it doesn't.

thats awful lol!
Is there even a maintenance group in that park?