Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Mr.EPCOT]

Well, the idea would be that it'd become a restaurant, much like it was originally planned. And just think with that removed from Adventureland, and also giving Aladdin and maybe the Country Bears the boot, and rearranging a couple of other things, all that space you'd have for a new attraction?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Well, the idea would be that it'd become a restaurant, much like it was originally planned. And just think with that removed from Adventureland, and also giving Aladdin and maybe the Country Bears the boot, and rearranging a couple of other things, all that space you'd have for a new attraction?

If done tastefully, it would work...But why not "clone" it to the resort? Similar experiences, yes, but I hate the thought of loosing it from MK.:lol:

Just opinion...

 

[SirGoofy]

I would do almost anything to get rid of Aladdin. Such an eyesore in what could be the best land in the MK, if plans are greenlight and properly funded.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I would do almost anything to get rid of Aladdin. Such an eyesore in what could be the best land in the MK, if plans are greenlight and properly funded.

Yes, it's a large moment when you walk in and see that.:lookaroun:lol: Much like the BAH.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

In my mind, we've already lost it. It'd just be reopening somewhere else.

 

[CBOMB]

Whylightbulb I know one of the big problems you had, and have with WDI were the ridiculace cost overrides on some of the projects. I know it's difficult to generalize a topic such as that, but could you give it a try?

Having read so many of your interesting post it seems so much is being lost on different projects because of this. Cutting the budget while wasting what money you have seems like a plan to create a very mediocre attraction that could have been great. What thought process permeates WDI that causes this mindset of wasteful spending?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I'm just going to throw in my 2 cents because there are some points that need to be made I think. There is no way a company the size of Disney can be turned around in all areas in a short period of time. I listed all my reasons for my optimism recently department by department. Projects from WDI are always going to take the longest time to work through the system and we are just now seeing that happen at DCA and now Hong Kong. Other positives are the Liberty Square refurbs at MK and the amazing and popular Pixar Place.

The Blue Sky Cellar shines with traditional Imagineering quality and I really think DCA will be the barometer as to if Iger/Lasseter are bringing WDI back to the standards we all expect. I'd venture to say, they are in every way. I'm not being an apologist. That is sincerely what I see happening.

Finally, I have to say something about those who call for Disney to "clean house". We saw this on this forum concerning TDO and the discusting glee of people when TWDC announced potential layoffs. People actually named names and couldn't wait each day to find out who had gotten the axe. And now you advocate WDI be cleaned out against all evidence that WDI is actually being turned around and the quality is returning. In fact, the more TWDC and Iger/Lasseter succeed the more desperate people are sounding. I know we live in challanging times, but to exploit those circumstances to call for the firing of people who probably are not the decision makers seems way over the top. You are talking about real people with real families and real responsibilities. Calling for people to be fired does sound bitter. Especially when it is based on such unsubstantiated assumptions. If the DCA makeover turns out to be of poor quality I will admit I was wrong and then I will share your point of view. I'm not worried about that happening at all.

PS- if you should be calling anybody out, it should be Universal's management. Between the new coaster and the delays to potterland, I think they are the ones who actually have a problem.

So wait. Are you telling whylightbulb, who we all know was a WDI employee and still now routinely deals with WDI... And that we find out today is business partners with someone trained specifically by some of the originals... That he's wrong? I'd call that fairly bold.

One other quick point... I wasn't one that made a big deal about the layoffs... But that being said, business is business. And I don't believe that Iger or anyone else making the decisions on all that was really concerned about families and years of service and so forth. It's a multi-billion dollar company, and the decisions were based on the bottom line. My point is that if those in charge making those decisions weren't concerned with those things, it's tough to expect someone on the outside to be. And I'm SURE that before the names of who was getting cut was released, there were names flying all OVER the place internally, and employees cutting down others behind their backs, etc. It's "kill or be killed" to many people when they know that's coming.

I guess my point there is that calling for certain people to be let go wasn't just taking place on a WDW message board.

 

[WDW1974]

I have much to say on this topic and it will probably come across as bitter and negative. I've tried wearing the rose-colored glasses for many years and that only served to disappoint more with every new disaster WDI had released since 1996. As a matter of fact my negativity and disgust motivated me to leave WDI, Universal Creative and Landmark to start an independent entertainment design firm along with my business partner and best friend. That was the smartest decision we ever made. Just like you, we have been pretty successfull so far. That success came mostly by doing things opposite from how WDI currently does business. So hopefully everyone can forgive me for the negative tone but so far it has served me well and caused me to see things as they are, not as I'd like them to be.

WDI management, just like most companies in the U.S., is staffed by mostly unqualified, inept and inadequate employees that landed their positions because of one or more of the following reasons: making it through the highly bureaucratic HR department because they did well in college and know how to say all the right things; being highly adept at self-promotion with no substance; being willing to perform certain "personal favors" for promotion; nepotism and favoritism from the Eisner years and a host of other non-talent based reasons. I certainly don't know every employee at WDI but based on the projects we have worked with them on recently I can tell you that the aptitude and facility we used to expect and take for granted is now very difficult to find. There is a common mistaken belief that WDI is staffed with the best in the world - that simply is not true anymore.

I so wish the fanbois who think Disney can do no wrong were forced to read the above paragraph over and over and over and over ... again.

There's plenty of talent at WDI, although in no way like what was there as recently as a decade ago (something I'm sure you'd agree with).

But management? That's another story ... and it misses the point that under current structure WDI is largely beholden to P&R and that means Jay Rasulo.

There are exceptions but unfortunately these people don't generally know how, or are not willing, to do what it takes to move up into positions of authority. What usually happens is their managers will take credit for the work of the talented and then not know how to implement the ideas properly. This has been true throughout history and can be seen if you study the history of flight and who really invented the aeroplane, the history of Edison versus Tesla etc. In all these cases the ones that got credit were mostly good at self-promotion and aggrandizement. Such is the case with today's WDI management. I believe the abysmal quality we have been seeing in the last 15 years is mostly due to this.

We have always had examples of this issue but it has become rampant in the past decade or so. I've witnessed it personally and through the eyes of my best friend and business partner as well. Coming from him it is even more disturbing because he was hired at WDI, tutered and mentored by the guys that esentially invented this industry: Ward Kimball, John Hench, Marc Davis etc. While I worked with these guys, just as you have, I would venture to say very few were extensively trained directly by them as much as my business partner was. If you think I'm negative you should hear him talk. According to him just about every product that has been churned out by WDI for WDW in the last 15 years has epitomized an anti-Disney design philosophy. Once again there are a few exceptions that somehow made it through thankfully.

What is the solution to all of this? Executive leadership needs to recognize the problem, clean house and make a dramatic shift in design operations strategy and philosophy. The real problem is I don't see many in the executive leadership role that would be willing to do this. It needs to come from high up and they are too busy looking at their spreadsheets and expense accounts to care right now.

I hope the tide is turning as some claim. Unfortunately I don't see it yet.

I don't as well. I want to, but I don't.

Doing a great rehab on Mansion (and hopefully HoP) doesn't qualify. Adding something like TSMM is OK, but nothing to wet yourself over.
Adding things to HKDL (and I have so many thoughts and no time to put them here just yet on that front) or DCA is just fixing messes that shouldn't have been allowed to be built the way they were to begin with (and Disney had NO choice in HK ... none at all).

I don't know what the answer is ultimately ... but a housecleaning in management is certainly needed and that would just be a start ...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

So how 'bout those Lakers?

 

[yankspy]

So how 'bout those Lakers?

That might start an even bigger argument.:lol:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Must be some sort of sport in the colonies :shrug:

 

[whylightbulb]

I listed all my reasons for my optimism recently department by department. Projects from WDI are always going to take the longest time to work through the system and we are just now seeing that happen at DCA and now Hong Kong. Other positives are the Liberty Square refurbs at MK and the amazing and popular Pixar Place.

We have already seen several projects that have been under the supervision of "new management" and they have been pretty lackluster in comparison to the old Disney standards in many educated opinions. I personally have not been on the Disneyland subs so I can't comment too much on them but many that I trust and respect have told me it should have come in at half the cost. I have commented on Toy Story Mania in several posts. While this ride is okay it certainly falls far short of what it should have been. So far all we have seen from WDI is some nice concept art and some exciting copy with respect to DCA and Hong Kong. Please excuse me if I'm skeptical but I've been disappointed so many times before. I have not seen HOP yet but this is something we should be expecting on a regular basis. Why are we excited that they updated the media and added Obama? They did a great job with Mansion refurb but again, way too high in terms of cost and something that should have been taking place on a regular basis.

There is hope with Mermaid and Cars (I have seen the plans and so far everything looks great) for example but let's see how well executed everything is before proclaiming victory. I will be the first to get excited about a good quality attraction and acknowledge the positive changes from management at that time.

Finally, I have to say something about those who call for Disney to "clean house". We saw this on this forum concerning TDO and the discusting glee of people when TWDC announced potential layoffs. People actually named names and couldn't wait each day to find out who had gotten the axe. And now you advocate WDI be cleaned out against all evidence that WDI is actually being turned around and the quality is returning.

I don't see this evidence considering how bad each product has been in recent times.

In fact, the more TWDC and Iger/Lasseter succeed the more desperate people are sounding.

Where have they succeeded? Lasseter knows how to make a CGI film. Nobody can touch him when it comes to that. The man is a genius in that department in my opinion. But whether he can successfully manage everything he does along with managing the execution of a quality attraction is a different story. I do hope so.

I know we live in challanging times, but to exploit those circumstances to call for the firing of people who probably are not the decision makers seems way over the top. You are talking about real people with real families and real responsibilities. Calling for people to be fired does sound bitter. Especially when it is based on such unsubstantiated assumptions. If the DCA makeover turns out to be of poor quality I will admit I was wrong and then I will share your point of view. I'm not worried about that happening at all.

I personally am not calling for the firing of anyone that doesn't need to move to another job that they are more suited for. Are you saying you would support the company maintaining the status quo so that inept management can support their families? If they are in the wrong job they should be fired to allow them to find their niche in life and make room for more talented individuals. This is a business, not a charity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "unsubstantiated assumptions." Number one, the product speaks for itself. Very little of the Haunted Mansion, Pirates or Indy caliber has been seen in WDW for at least 15 years. Even if you don't have the benefit of "inside" experience to see how this has happened you can at least acknowledge that management has to be held accountable for all this. Besides all that I have certainly provided plenty of examples in my posts of inept management and no-talent hacks.

PS- if you should be calling anybody out, it should be Universal's management. Between the new coaster and the delays to potterland, I think they are the ones who actually have a problem.

I couldn't agree more. I have called them out on several occasions. But to say they have a problem and not Disney would be erroneous. Universal Creative was better when General Electric wasn't in the picture. Once again, today's big corporation mediocrity and bureaucracy are the main problems.

 

[whylightbulb]

True. It will take time. I happen to be very bullish on the current WDI management team of Bruce Vaughn and Craig Russell. I've known them for years (and yes Bruce invested in Rivera) and loved working with each of them. They are not "inept" people.

I have also worked with Bruce and I can at least say he was much better than Bran F. in R&D. in his current role I haven't had too many dealings with him personally. As I said, there are some exceptions to the bad management rule. Tony B. has amazing insight and talent but is basically from the "old school." The main point is that Tony shouldn't be the exception.

IMHO there is a very interesting moment to be seized at WDI with these two at the helm. Will they make changes beneath them?We'll have to wait and see.

That is what I'm wating for. The opportunity is there. Let's hope they "seize the future!"

 

[whylightbulb]

Whylightbulb I know one of the big problems you had, and have with WDI were the ridiculace cost overrides on some of the projects. I know it's difficult to generalize a topic such as that, but could you give it a try?

Well as I've pointed out using examples such as Mission Space there is either some real exaggeration with respect to publicized numbers or some amazing waste that even our current federal government couldn't duplicate.

I remember when I first started at WDI and my boss was giving me the tour. He took me into a room where three people were sitting around sculpting and painting fairies. While my boss was taking a call I asked one of them what this was for. She shrugged her shoulders and replied, "I don't know...they just want us to paint fairies." It was very comical but indicative of what goes on that contributes to project budget waste. My boss didn't know what they were for either by the way. I still to this day don't know what those fairies were for.

Having read so many of your interesting post it seems so much is being lost on different projects because of this. Cutting the budget while wasting what money you have seems like a plan to create a very mediocre attraction that could have been great. What thought process permeates WDI that causes this mindset of wasteful spending?

I think a lot of it is because they have it to waste. i remember when I was first exposed to a project outside of Disney or Universal where we didn't have the enormous budgets they are so lucky to have. We actually had to be just as creative in value engineering and planning as concepting the story and creative elements. This is something that most at WDI don't have experience with. They'll design to budget and rely on expensive technology rather than rely on innovation and creativity to derive entertainment value from.

Ego is another huge money waster. Because certain managers have to put their mark on each element of a project they will assign countless extra hours to mock-ups and POC that don't need to be done. It's true that the devil is in the details but many at WDI have taken that to an innefficient extreme.

Another reason is simply because many of them don't have the ability to think in terms of balance between managing a budget and producing an entertainment product. This is something you either have or you don't in my opinion. These project managers should be working at general construction jobs rather than a creative-based job.

 

[whylightbulb]

I so wish the fanbois who think Disney can do no wrong were forced to read the above paragraph over and over and over and over ... again.

There's plenty of talent at WDI, although in no way like what was there as recently as a decade ago (something I'm sure you'd agree with).

Very true unfortunately. Many of the talented ones were either chased away or left seeing the writing on the wall.

But management? That's another story ... and it misses the point that under current structure WDI is largely beholden to P&R and that means Jay Rasulo.

I have seen so many "clones" of Rasulo stay at WDI and Disney in general while the truly talented and passionate are chased away. You are right...until Rasulo is replaced it will be very difficult to get anything accomplished.

 

[HMF]

I Tony B. has amazing insight and talent but is basically from the "old school." The main point is that Tony shouldn't be the exception.

Tony should be managing WDI in my opinion and of course Matt Ouimet as parks & Resorts chairman.

 

[musketeer]

Theres also a link to his older interview that just reminds me once again why I hate M:S.

Why do you hate Mission Space?

 

[jt04]

We have already seen several projects that have been under the supervision of "new management" and they have been pretty lackluster in comparison to the old Disney standards in many educated opinions. I personally have not been on the Disneyland subs so I can't comment too much on them but many that I trust and respect have told me it should have come in at half the cost. I have commented on Toy Story Mania in several posts. While this ride is okay it certainly falls far short of what it should have been. So far all we have seen from WDI is some nice concept art and some exciting copy with respect to DCA and Hong Kong. Please excuse me if I'm skeptical but I've been disappointed so many times before. I have not seen HOP yet but this is something we should be expecting on a regular basis. Why are we excited that they updated the media and added Obama? They did a great job with Mansion refurb but again, way too high in terms of cost and something that should have been taking place on a regular basis.

There is hope with Mermaid and Cars (I have seen the plans and so far everything looks great) for example but let's see how well executed everything is before proclaiming victory. I will be the first to get excited about a good quality attraction and acknowledge the positive changes from management at that time.

I don't see this evidence considering how bad each product has been in recent times.

Where have they succeeded? Lasseter knows how to make a CGI film. Nobody can touch him when it comes to that. The man is a genius in that department in my opinion. But whether he can successfully manage everything he does along with managing the execution of a quality attraction is a different story. I do hope so.

I personally am not calling for the firing of anyone that doesn't need to move to another job that they are more suited for. Are you saying you would support the company maintaining the status quo so that inept management can support their families? If they are in the wrong job they should be fired to allow them to find their niche in life and make room for more talented individuals. This is a business, not a charity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "unsubstantiated assumptions." Number one, the product speaks for itself. Very little of the Haunted Mansion, Pirates or Indy caliber has been seen in WDW for at least 15 years. Even if you don't have the benefit of "inside" experience to see how this has happened you can at least acknowledge that management has to be held accountable for all this. Besides all that I have certainly provided plenty of examples in my posts of inept management and no-talent hacks.

I couldn't agree more. I have called them out on several occasions. But to say they have a problem and not Disney would be erroneous. Universal Creative was better when General Electric wasn't in the picture. Once again, today's big corporation mediocrity and bureaucracy are the main problems.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It is really appreciated.

This is how I see WDI's future under Iger/Lasseter and the others you and ES mention.

When Lasseter started making changes to WDAS and helping advance the projects, he was influencing projects already in the pipeline. We see with each release he has had more of an influence. From all accounts Bolt was very well done and will certainly be around awhile. My personal opinion is that the average consumer was confused by so many recent "dog" movies that Bolt had trouble getting noticed. That is why it underperformed. It was also not under his influence from day 1.

Starting with TPatF we will see Lasseters' influence when he is on a project from it's beginning. I believe you will see the Pixar touch in everything WDAS does from now on. There is real buzz, not just hype, coming out of the WDAS. I believe it is warrented from everything I've seen.

My take is this same scenario applies directly to WDI. A lot of projects were in the pipeline and many were done as rush jobs or interim refurbs. Meanwhile, the longer term projects have been underway under Iger's WDI and those are starting to roll out now. Just as TPatF and Rapunzal will be the real test for Lasseter, DCA and now Hong Kong's new additions, will be the gauge of whether WDI is back.

As to layoffs, if someone is dead weight or past their desire to be there, then by all means a change should be made. But just calling for layoffs for the heck of it, is what I have a problem with. By the way, it came off as a ploy for getting more work thrown your way. But that is probably just me. :lol:

 

[Wilt Dasney]

what if ... they integrated the Tiki Room into the Poly hotel as part of a big lavish dinner show?

Wasn't this actually the original idea for the attraction at Disneyland (minus the Poly, of course)? What a cool way to bring the concept full circle if it ever happened.

 

[CBOMB]

Must be some sort of sport in the colonies :shrug:

We don't have sports here. We have obsessions. Followed by riots.