Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
there is always some time for a sassy line by Legolas or general silliness by bilbo.Yep. With that along with the battle of the 5 armies it will be a wonder if there are any lines of dialog at all.
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The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug
- Thread starter Megalodumb
- Start date
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Just got back. I'll try to keep this spoiler free, so don't worry.
Ok, yeah, I'm gonna borrow the format that the youtuber Andre (Black Nerd Comedy) uses...cause I like it! He's funny, you should check him out sometime!
So, I'm gonna tell you the Good, the Bad and the Nerdy!
Anyhow, wow! What a fun movie!
The Good?
The plot is much better and deeper with this one. You find yourself starting to truly connect and care about the characters (especially Bilbo, Balin, Kili and Thorin). As mentioned by others, the first movie spent a lot of time developing backstory and the villain arch. Since this does not need to be rehashed in this movie, they were able to put a lot more variation into it.
Bombur's fight scene, while ludicrous, was a WIN!
They made a lot of changes to the story and character additions. I did like the inclusion of a certain awesome character that was in the book, but was tragically left out of the Rankin / Bass animated version.
This character made for an extremely interesting opening, and the movie pretty much gripped me from that point forwards until nearly the end. Why "nearly the end"? Well, I'll get into that in the next section (the bad)...
The effects, as you would expect, are amazing. The visuals and landscapes, detailed and captivating.
I thought I'd mind the addition of Legolas to the story, but I really don't. He was well written into the plot, and makes sense. I could truly see this character being in the book had Tolkein fleshed everything out before writing the Hobbit.
He didn't. He wrote Silmarillon next, which is where he developed the world and the concepts and characters in it. This book was rejected by his publisher, but led to Lord of the Rings. So, I'll give the script writers a creative license pass for this one. Good show!
I enjoyed the tweaks they made to the spider scene to make it translate better to screen and "Jackson's" version of Tolkein. They are not drastic changes, but little ones, like how you can hear them speak...and they were very good tweaks!
Smaug is truly magnificent (see what I did there?)! The animation is excellent, and Cumberbatch does a good job with it as a character. I thought the voice was going to be off when I saw the trailer, but seeing it in the theater that isn't the case at all.
Also, the fire breathing effect...WOW, unique and a great visual!
The Bad?
Whomever wrote the script for Smaug was obviously trying to lay in lines from the book. This is something I do not think was accomplished well, especially considering the changes made to the scene with Bilbo in the Great Hall.
I just didn't like that entire scene very much. It started extremely well, with Smaug waking up. It was suspenseful, and even made me jump a few times, though I knew what was going to happen! But, that's when the movie started to drag for me. It did pick up again before the end, but...yeah...meh...
I would go into details, but...no spoilers. I will say this though, I wonder if Cumberbatch must have lent some of his Sherlock magic to Smaug, because Smaug connected the dots VERY quickly while questioning the burglar (something he doesn't do in the book). Too quickly, I think, for such a lengthy scene.
(and yes, that is a picture of Cumberbatch doing the facial captures for Smaug)
Three words (and I won't explain in detail, no spoilers)...Love Story Triangle. Why? (Ok, ok, I know WHY, and I actually like the character developments, it works...but...just...WHY!?! So cliche.)
Ok, I get that Legolas is a Chuck Norris level butt kicker, but they WAY over did it in this movie. To the point where it looked cartoonish and stupid at times. Specifically, the Legolas scenes in Laketown were just atrocious.
I felt these scenes added nothing to the movie at all. Considering the sub-plot they'd been building, I thought it was going to go in a different direction (no spoilers!), but...it didn't. They were just a big bloody nose on the script (see what I did there?).
However, I noted that the kids around me were cheering and adoring it. So, I'll give it a pass.
I had this same complaint about the last movie. And, while this one was paced far better...this movie is LONG! I do wish that it had been designed to have a classic intermission halfway through. To stretch, go to the restroom, whatever.
Either that or released it (at the same time) as part 1 and part 2 and instruct theaters to play them back to back (with a 15 minute interval or something). I mean, heck...think about that business model? I would have paid for two movie tickets to see part 1 AND part 2!
The Nerdy!
Story changes, completely made up characters. Many are no where close to the Hobbit story, and some not even close to ANY established Tolkein character! Some worked...some didn't.
I know Jackson said he was going to include some of the Silmarillion in this movie (which I appreciate)...but it really felt like a very poor way of doing it.
I don't like the inclusion and conclusion of the overarching "necromancer", and that the intrigue...darn, can't go into to much detail on that...but, I'll just say, I didn't find the way it was resolved interesting at all. Way too predictable, and probably what everyone was already thinking.
I suspect in the next movie we'll get to see some of the White Council, as they've been building that up throughout both movies.
I am not a fan of the white Orc design (in either movie). They look like Navii from Avatar on steroids with battle scars. Also, why does Azog (the scarred leader we met in the last film) keep changing heights when talking with his second in command on the bridge (watch for that if you have not seen it, it's dreadfully obvious)? He starts off shorter, but ends up taller by the end of the scene. Da heck?
Also, replace the orc villain personality with the same orc villain personality? I felt they could have been more creative than that.
However, I did note they brought back a lot more practical Orc make up effects, which was a welcome touch. There's some things in a live action that CGI still just can't do well yet (without a LOT of talent and work, like Gollum). Specifically that's eyes and mouths. Something is just cartoony and "off" still when it's all CGI.
I sort of miss that they didn't get into some of the singing in this one, but I can see how it wouldn't have fit well in this application. However, while in the first one they used the "Misty Mountain" theme WAY too much, in this movie they missed on some great times to really stress it, I think (hello, epic reveal shot of the Mountain!).
Here, as an example. Turn this on and then scroll down to look at the picture below.
What an emotional impact this moment could have been if they had all started singing, now, here, at the "end" of their quest!
Instead, this is all glossed over.
Also, I didn't like AT ALL that right before entering the mountain I think they turned into an overdramatic frump fest...I was bored by most of this scene, when this should have been a major peak in the film.
Being able to see so much of Erebor was amazing! I'm glad they added all that to the script, because I love seeing the inside of dwarf kingdoms (I was always a fan of dwarves...played one in D&D all the time...and yes...I played D&D...with dice...nerd, I know).
However, with a downturn, I didn't like the "battle plan" the dwarves had to defeat Smaug. While certainly not what I expected, and I loved what it did for the Thorin character, I wasn't really sure what they thought they were going to accomplish?
While it was great to see all the dwarves in action, but the whole series of scenes felt rather anti-climactic. However, that exit shot of the golden glory of Smaug (see what I did there?)...made it all worth it!
Can't get much more nerdy without giving things away, so on to the summary!
Summary
Great movie, worth seeing in the theater. It is LONG (yes, I know I already mentioned that), but the pacing is far better than the last movie. There were only a few scenes where I found it dragging...but, like the last movie, I felt it could have been 30 minutes shorter and told the story just as well.
If you are a fan of Middle Earth, well...I know you'll go see it. But, if you aren't, I'd still recommend it. Especially if you have kids. Of all the Middle Earth movies made so far, this is the one that I really felt my daughter would adore. She likes the other ones, but is really still a bit young for all the depth of content and story included in them. She mainly likes the hobbits being funny, Gollum and the battle scenes.
However, with Smaug, this is different. Smaug is much more terrifying to kids, I think, than the straight up bad guys that are in all the other films. I think this is because, especially with younger children, they don't get political intrigue and backstabbing. The bad guys in the other films are so obviously "bad guys" or being led astray by the "bad guys" through magic or something. Think about it...Orcs / Sauron / Giant Spiders / Trolls / Wargs / Goblins / Ring Wraiths / Balrogs...etc...they are obviously evil, but violently so. They'll attack you the first chance they get!
Smaug is different. He can be violent (duh, Giant Dragon!), but also cunning, and braggadocios. As a result, he's far more terrifying a character as he's more accessible. He's malevolent, but cunning. Therefore, you never know when he's going to pounce.
As a result, especially for children (but adults too), this adds suspense.
Gimli and I give it 7 out of 10 axes.
Ok, yeah, I'm gonna borrow the format that the youtuber Andre (Black Nerd Comedy) uses...cause I like it! He's funny, you should check him out sometime!
So, I'm gonna tell you the Good, the Bad and the Nerdy!
Anyhow, wow! What a fun movie!
The Good?
The plot is much better and deeper with this one. You find yourself starting to truly connect and care about the characters (especially Bilbo, Balin, Kili and Thorin). As mentioned by others, the first movie spent a lot of time developing backstory and the villain arch. Since this does not need to be rehashed in this movie, they were able to put a lot more variation into it.
Bombur's fight scene, while ludicrous, was a WIN!
They made a lot of changes to the story and character additions. I did like the inclusion of a certain awesome character that was in the book, but was tragically left out of the Rankin / Bass animated version.
This character made for an extremely interesting opening, and the movie pretty much gripped me from that point forwards until nearly the end. Why "nearly the end"? Well, I'll get into that in the next section (the bad)...
The effects, as you would expect, are amazing. The visuals and landscapes, detailed and captivating.
I thought I'd mind the addition of Legolas to the story, but I really don't. He was well written into the plot, and makes sense. I could truly see this character being in the book had Tolkein fleshed everything out before writing the Hobbit.
He didn't. He wrote Silmarillon next, which is where he developed the world and the concepts and characters in it. This book was rejected by his publisher, but led to Lord of the Rings. So, I'll give the script writers a creative license pass for this one. Good show!
I enjoyed the tweaks they made to the spider scene to make it translate better to screen and "Jackson's" version of Tolkein. They are not drastic changes, but little ones, like how you can hear them speak...and they were very good tweaks!
Smaug is truly magnificent (see what I did there?)! The animation is excellent, and Cumberbatch does a good job with it as a character. I thought the voice was going to be off when I saw the trailer, but seeing it in the theater that isn't the case at all.
Also, the fire breathing effect...WOW, unique and a great visual!
The Bad?
Whomever wrote the script for Smaug was obviously trying to lay in lines from the book. This is something I do not think was accomplished well, especially considering the changes made to the scene with Bilbo in the Great Hall.
I just didn't like that entire scene very much. It started extremely well, with Smaug waking up. It was suspenseful, and even made me jump a few times, though I knew what was going to happen! But, that's when the movie started to drag for me. It did pick up again before the end, but...yeah...meh...
I would go into details, but...no spoilers. I will say this though, I wonder if Cumberbatch must have lent some of his Sherlock magic to Smaug, because Smaug connected the dots VERY quickly while questioning the burglar (something he doesn't do in the book). Too quickly, I think, for such a lengthy scene.
(and yes, that is a picture of Cumberbatch doing the facial captures for Smaug)
Three words (and I won't explain in detail, no spoilers)...Love Story Triangle. Why? (Ok, ok, I know WHY, and I actually like the character developments, it works...but...just...WHY!?! So cliche.)
Ok, I get that Legolas is a Chuck Norris level butt kicker, but they WAY over did it in this movie. To the point where it looked cartoonish and stupid at times. Specifically, the Legolas scenes in Laketown were just atrocious.
I felt these scenes added nothing to the movie at all. Considering the sub-plot they'd been building, I thought it was going to go in a different direction (no spoilers!), but...it didn't. They were just a big bloody nose on the script (see what I did there?).
However, I noted that the kids around me were cheering and adoring it. So, I'll give it a pass.
I had this same complaint about the last movie. And, while this one was paced far better...this movie is LONG! I do wish that it had been designed to have a classic intermission halfway through. To stretch, go to the restroom, whatever.
Either that or released it (at the same time) as part 1 and part 2 and instruct theaters to play them back to back (with a 15 minute interval or something). I mean, heck...think about that business model? I would have paid for two movie tickets to see part 1 AND part 2!
The Nerdy!
Story changes, completely made up characters. Many are no where close to the Hobbit story, and some not even close to ANY established Tolkein character! Some worked...some didn't.
I know Jackson said he was going to include some of the Silmarillion in this movie (which I appreciate)...but it really felt like a very poor way of doing it.
I don't like the inclusion and conclusion of the overarching "necromancer", and that the intrigue...darn, can't go into to much detail on that...but, I'll just say, I didn't find the way it was resolved interesting at all. Way too predictable, and probably what everyone was already thinking.
I suspect in the next movie we'll get to see some of the White Council, as they've been building that up throughout both movies.
I am not a fan of the white Orc design (in either movie). They look like Navii from Avatar on steroids with battle scars. Also, why does Azog (the scarred leader we met in the last film) keep changing heights when talking with his second in command on the bridge (watch for that if you have not seen it, it's dreadfully obvious)? He starts off shorter, but ends up taller by the end of the scene. Da heck?
Also, replace the orc villain personality with the same orc villain personality? I felt they could have been more creative than that.
However, I did note they brought back a lot more practical Orc make up effects, which was a welcome touch. There's some things in a live action that CGI still just can't do well yet (without a LOT of talent and work, like Gollum). Specifically that's eyes and mouths. Something is just cartoony and "off" still when it's all CGI.
I sort of miss that they didn't get into some of the singing in this one, but I can see how it wouldn't have fit well in this application. However, while in the first one they used the "Misty Mountain" theme WAY too much, in this movie they missed on some great times to really stress it, I think (hello, epic reveal shot of the Mountain!).
Here, as an example. Turn this on and then scroll down to look at the picture below.
What an emotional impact this moment could have been if they had all started singing, now, here, at the "end" of their quest!
Instead, this is all glossed over.
Also, I didn't like AT ALL that right before entering the mountain I think they turned into an overdramatic frump fest...I was bored by most of this scene, when this should have been a major peak in the film.
Being able to see so much of Erebor was amazing! I'm glad they added all that to the script, because I love seeing the inside of dwarf kingdoms (I was always a fan of dwarves...played one in D&D all the time...and yes...I played D&D...with dice...nerd, I know).
However, with a downturn, I didn't like the "battle plan" the dwarves had to defeat Smaug. While certainly not what I expected, and I loved what it did for the Thorin character, I wasn't really sure what they thought they were going to accomplish?
While it was great to see all the dwarves in action, but the whole series of scenes felt rather anti-climactic. However, that exit shot of the golden glory of Smaug (see what I did there?)...made it all worth it!
Can't get much more nerdy without giving things away, so on to the summary!
Summary
Great movie, worth seeing in the theater. It is LONG (yes, I know I already mentioned that), but the pacing is far better than the last movie. There were only a few scenes where I found it dragging...but, like the last movie, I felt it could have been 30 minutes shorter and told the story just as well.
If you are a fan of Middle Earth, well...I know you'll go see it. But, if you aren't, I'd still recommend it. Especially if you have kids. Of all the Middle Earth movies made so far, this is the one that I really felt my daughter would adore. She likes the other ones, but is really still a bit young for all the depth of content and story included in them. She mainly likes the hobbits being funny, Gollum and the battle scenes.
However, with Smaug, this is different. Smaug is much more terrifying to kids, I think, than the straight up bad guys that are in all the other films. I think this is because, especially with younger children, they don't get political intrigue and backstabbing. The bad guys in the other films are so obviously "bad guys" or being led astray by the "bad guys" through magic or something. Think about it...Orcs / Sauron / Giant Spiders / Trolls / Wargs / Goblins / Ring Wraiths / Balrogs...etc...they are obviously evil, but violently so. They'll attack you the first chance they get!
Smaug is different. He can be violent (duh, Giant Dragon!), but also cunning, and braggadocios. As a result, he's far more terrifying a character as he's more accessible. He's malevolent, but cunning. Therefore, you never know when he's going to pounce.
As a result, especially for children (but adults too), this adds suspense.
Gimli and I give it 7 out of 10 axes.
Last edited:
Just got back. I'll try to keep this spoiler free, so don't worry.
Ok, yeah, I'm gonna borrow the format that the youtuber Andre (Black Nerd Comedy) uses...cause I like it! He's funny, you should check him out sometime!
So, I'm gonna tell you the Good, the Bad and the Nerdy!
Anyhow, wow! What a fun movie!
The Good?
The plot is much better and deeper with this one. You find yourself starting to truly connect and care about the characters (especially Bilbo, Balin, Kili and Thorin). As mentioned by others, the first movie spent a lot of time developing backstory and the villain arch. Since this does not need to be rehashed in this movie, they were able to put a lot more variation into it.
Bombur's fight scene, while ludicrous, was a WIN!
They made a lot of changes to the story and character additions. I did like the inclusion of a certain awesome character that was in the book, but was tragically left out of the Rankin / Bass animated version.
This character made for an extremely interesting opening, and the movie pretty much gripped me from that point forwards until nearly the end. Why "nearly the end"? Well, I'll get into that in the next section (the bad)...
The effects, as you would expect, are amazing. The visuals and landscapes, detailed and captivating.
I thought I'd mind the addition of Legolas to the story, but I really don't. He was well written into the plot, and makes sense. I could truly see this character being in the book had Tolkein fleshed everything out before writing the Hobbit.
He didn't. He wrote Silmarillon next, which is where he developed the world and the concepts and characters in it. This book was rejected by his publisher, but led to Lord of the Rings. So, I'll give the script writers a creative license pass for this one. Good show!
I enjoyed the tweaks they made to the spider scene to make it translate better to screen and "Jackson's" version of Tolkein. They are not drastic changes, but little ones, like how you can hear them speak...and they were very good tweaks!
Smaug is truly magnificent (see what I did there?)! The animation is excellent, and Cumberbatch does a good job with it as a character. I thought the voice was going to be off when I saw the trailer, but seeing it in the theater that isn't the case at all.
Also, the fire breathing effect...WOW, unique and a great visual!
The Bad?
Whomever wrote the script for Smaug was obviously trying to lay in lines from the book. This is something I do not think was accomplished well, especially considering the changes made to the scene with Bilbo in the Great Hall.
I just didn't like that entire scene very much. It started extremely well, with Smaug waking up. It was suspenseful, and even made me jump a few times, though I knew what was going to happen! But, that's when the movie started to drag for me. It did pick up again before the end, but...yeah...meh...
I would go into details, but...no spoilers. I will say this though, I wonder if Cumberbatch must have lent some of his Sherlock magic to Smaug, because Smaug connected the dots VERY quickly while questioning the burglar (something he doesn't do in the book). Too quickly, I think, for such a lengthy scene.
(and yes, that is a picture of Cumberbatch doing the facial captures for Smaug)
Three words (and I won't explain in detail, no spoilers)...Love Story Triangle. Why? (Ok, ok, I know WHY, and I actually like the character developments, it works...but...just...WHY!?! So cliche.)
Ok, I get that Legolas is a Chuck Norris level butt kicker, but they WAY over did it in this movie. To the point where it looked cartoonish and stupid at times. Specifically, the Legolas scenes in Laketown were just atrocious.
I felt these scenes added nothing to the movie at all. Considering the sub-plot they'd been building, I thought it was going to go in a different direction (no spoilers!), but...it didn't. They were just a big bloody nose on the script (see what I did there?).
However, I noted that the kids around me were cheering and adoring it. So, I'll give it a pass.
I had this same complaint about the last movie. And, while this one was paced far better...this movie is LONG! I do wish that it had been designed to have a classic intermission halfway through. To stretch, go to the restroom, whatever.
Either that or released it (at the same time) as part 1 and part 2 and instruct theaters to play them back to back (with a 15 minute interval or something). I mean, heck...think about that business model? I would have paid for two movie tickets to see part 1 AND part 2!
The Nerdy!
Story changes, completely made up characters. Many are no where close to the Hobbit story, and some not even close to ANY established Tolkein character! Some worked...some didn't.
I know Jackson said he was going to include some of the Silmarillion in this movie (which I appreciate)...but it really felt like a very poor way of doing it.
I don't like the inclusion and conclusion of the overarching "necromancer", and that the intrigue...darn, can't go into to much detail on that...but, I'll just say, I didn't find the way it was resolved interesting at all. Way too predictable, and probably what everyone was already thinking.
I suspect in the next movie we'll get to see some of the White Council, as they've been building that up throughout both movies.
I am not a fan of the white Orc design (in either movie). They look like Navii from Avatar on steroids with battle scars. Also, why does Azog (the scarred leader we met in the last film) keep changing heights when talking with his second in command on the bridge (watch for that if you have not seen it, it's dreadfully obvious)? He starts off shorter, but ends up taller by the end of the scene. Da heck?
Also, replace the orc villain personality with the same orc villain personality? I felt they could have been more creative than that.
However, I did note they brought back a lot more practical Orc make up effects, which was a welcome touch. There's some things in a live action that CGI still just can't do well yet (without a LOT of talent and work, like Gollum). Specifically that's eyes and mouths. Something is just cartoony and "off" still when it's all CGI.
I sort of miss that they didn't get into some of the singing in this one, but I can see how it wouldn't have fit well in this application. However, while in the first one they used the "Misty Mountain" theme WAY too much, in this movie they missed on some great times to really stress it, I think (hello, epic reveal shot of the Mountain!).
Here, as an example. Turn this on and then scroll down to look at the picture below.
What an emotional impact this moment could have been if they had all started singing, now, here, at the "end" of their quest!
Instead, this is all glossed over.
Also, I didn't like AT ALL that right before entering the mountain I think they turned into an overdramatic frump fest...I was bored by most of this scene, when this should have been a major peak in the film.
Being able to see so much of Erebor was amazing! I'm glad they added all that to the script, because I love seeing the inside of dwarf kingdoms (I was always a fan of dwarves...played one in D&D all the time...and yes...I played D&D...with dice...nerd, I know).
However, with a downturn, I didn't like the "battle plan" the dwarves had to defeat Smaug. While certainly not what I expected, and I loved what it did for the Thorin character, I wasn't really sure what they thought they were going to accomplish?
While it was great to see all the dwarves in action, but the whole series of scenes felt rather anti-climactic. However, that exit shot of the golden glory of Smaug (see what I did there?)...made it all worth it!
Can't get much more nerdy without giving things away, so on to the summary!
Summary
Great movie, worth seeing in the theater. It is LONG (yes, I know I already mentioned that), but the pacing is far better than the last movie. There were only a few scenes where I found it dragging...but, like the last movie, I felt it could have been 30 minutes shorter and told the story just as well.
If you are a fan of Middle Earth, well...I know you'll go see it. But, if you aren't, I'd still recommend it. Especially if you have kids. Of all the Middle Earth movies made so far, this is the one that I really felt my daughter would adore. She likes the other ones, but is really still a bit young for all the depth of content and story included in them. She mainly likes the hobbits being funny, Gollum and the battle scenes.
However, with Smaug, this is different. Smaug is much more terrifying to kids, I think, than the straight up bad guys that are in all the other films. I think this is because, especially with younger children, they don't get political intrigue and backstabbing. The bad guys in the other films are so obviously "bad guys" or being led astray by the "bad guys" through magic or something. Think about it...Orcs / Sauron / Giant Spiders / Trolls / Wargs / Goblins / Ring Wraiths / Balrogs...etc...they are obviously evil, but violently so. They'll attack you the first chance they get!
Smaug is different. He can be violent (duh, Giant Dragon!), but also cunning, and braggadocios. As a result, he's far more terrifying a character as he's more accessible. He's malevolent, but cunning. Therefore, you never know when he's going to pounce.
As a result, especially for children (but adults too), this adds suspense.
Gimli and I give it 7 out of 10 axes.
Excellent review, englanddg!