Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[Travel Junkie]

It doesn't appear all the California lockdowns did us much good,

It did a lot of good actually.

"California officials estimated that the state’s order — which prohibited nonessential travel; banned outdoor social gatherings; and closed nail and hair salons, museums and outdoor dining — kept as many as 25,000 people from landing in the hospital with a severe case of COVID-19."

"Scientists say that they can’t tease out which part of the order was most effective in turning the tide, but several leading public health experts interviewed by The Times agreed that the outdoor dining ban probably played a key role."

"But epidemiologists said prohibiting outdoor dining signaled to the public that the coronavirus storm was worsening while also eliminating a real risk: If an outdoor White House Rose Garden ceremony announcing a Supreme Court nominee could become a super-spreader event, it could easily happen on a restaurant patio.

While eating outdoors, patrons can’t keep their masks on, guests at the same table aren’t six feet apart, and they could spend more than an hour together — violating three basic tenets of risk reduction. Outdoor dining can be made safer by eating only with members of the same household, but that was often not the case.

Dining outdoors became even more risky as extraordinarily high rates of contagion swept through parts of California and restaurants put up plastic sheeting to protect diners from cool winter winds, blocking the very breezes that scatter virus particles and keep them away from other diners and employees.

The dangers are such that “I’ve never gone to an outdoor dining restaurant since the pandemic began,” said UC Berkeley epidemiologist Dr. John Swartzberg."

California’s outdoor dining ban was controversial. Did it help slow the COVID-19 surge?

Experts say the improving COVID-19 picture in California now is traceable in part to tough measures taken two months ago. Officials estimate that as many as 25,000 severe cases of the disease were prevented.

www.latimes.com

 

[Jiggsawpuzzle35]

Soooo...have the crowds returned to DTD/BV Street? Anyone ventured back out there?

I was in Torrance on Saturday and made a drive through downtown Redondo Beach (Riviera Village area) and it was packed with people. It looked like any other pre-pandemic weekend outside of the dining being moved to the street.

I plan on going this afternoon. Got my first Moderna shot on the weekend and the soreness has mostly gone away. Looking forward to checking out the new merchandise. I park at Gardenwalk now as suggested and it’s actually not bad of a walk and there is no line. *knock on wood*

 

[truecoat]

When it comes to Covid and its vaccine in 2021, Florida is winning.

California 1 of every 894 dead from Covid 19.

Florida 1 of every 771 dead from Covid 19.

My guess is Florida's rate is worse than that due to their reported number fudging.

 

[ayyylmao]

California 1 of every 894 dead from Covid 19.

Florida 1 of every 771 dead from Covid 19.

My guess is Florida's rate is worse than that due to their reported number fudging.

I remember when conspiracy theories were only for right wing nut jobs. Nice to see both parties accepting them.

 

[TP2000]

Even if Governor DeSantis is dumping dead bodies in the Everglades, one thing you can't fudge is age demographics.

Covid kills primarily those over age 70, and 40% of Covid deaths were in nursing homes nationwide. Florida has a much older population, fifth out of 50 states, while California has one of the youngest populations in the country, forty fifth out of 50 states.

#5 Florida = 42.2 Years Old Median Age
#45 California = 36.8 Years Old Median Age

I wonder if some math major here could figure out the impact on Florida's much older population, weighting the science that clearly shows Covid killing old people at far higher numbers than young people?

California and Florida are very close to each other in deaths per capita. The impact of Florida's much older demographics would be interesting to see taken into account when the numbers are this close...

#1 New Jersey = 2,478 Deaths Per 1 Million
#2 New York = 2,317 Deaths Per 1 Million
#26 Florida = 1,295 Deaths Per 1 Million
#33 California = 1,120 Deaths Per 1 Million
#50 Vermont = 293 Deaths Per 1 Million

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[chadwpalm]

Even if Governor DeSantis is dumping dead bodies in the Everglades, one thing you can't fudge is age demographics.

Covid kills primarily those over age 70, and 40% of Covid deaths were in nursing homes nationwide. Florida has a much older population, fifth out of 50 states, while California has one of the youngest populations in the country, forty fifth out of 50 states.

#5 Florida = 42.2 Years Old Median Age
#45 California = 36.8 Years Old Median Age

I wonder if some math major here could figure out the impact on Florida's much older population, weighting the science that clearly shows Covid killing old people at far higher numbers than young people?

California and Florida are very close to each other in deaths per capita. The impact of Florida's much older demographics would be interesting to see taken into account when the numbers are this close...

#1 New Jersey = 2,478 Deaths Per 1 Million
#2 New York = 2,317 Deaths Per 1 Million
#26 Florida = 1,295 Deaths Per 1 Million
#33 California = 1,120 Deaths Per 1 Million
#50 Vermont = 293 Deaths Per 1 Million

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

Per the CDC, 81.2% of all Covid-related deaths in the U.S. are people aged 65 and older.

Per the current state demographic data:

California ages 65+ = 10.6% of population
Florida ages 65+ = 21.0% of population

Per capita, Florida has twice as many 65+ aged people as California.

If 81.2% of Covid deaths are from people ages 65+ or older and Florida has twice as many 65+ aged people as California, then that means Florida's increase in deaths per million is solely based on age demographics, not policy.

If Florida had the same age demographic percentages as California, it would have a much lower death rate per million than California. I would have to plug in all age demographics for each state along with death-by-age demographics into a spreadsheet to give you exact numbers, but the math is solid.

 

[truecoat]

I remember when conspiracy theories were only for right wing nut jobs. Nice to see both parties accepting them.

Uh, not when Florida Newspapers are the ones reporting on it.

 

[CaptinEO]

There are several issues that affect restaurant menus at this time, some of which are:

• Will the menu item work when dining outdoors or would it get too cold and not be good by the time someone is finished eating it?
• Does the prep work and/or cooking required prevent proper social distancing in the kitchen?
• Is there availability for all of the ingredients?
• Will all or most of the items sell fast enough to not spoil before being used?
• With limited capacity, can the restaurant turn over more tables and thus make more money by keeping the menu more limited?
• Likewise staffing may be limited and as such they may need to have items that take less time to prepare and cook.
• If something happens and the guest does want to take the food to go, will it hold up?

I am sure there are others, this is just what a manager of a restaurant I know as told me when I asked why restaurants are keeping limited menus right now.

I guess I just don't see how these rules are different for any food item I mentioned vs what they are serving.

 

[CaptinEO]

I'd love to know that too.

The only thing I can think of is that because this has to be outdoors and you don't get the full Carthay Circle experience of the gorgeous dining room, they dumbed down the menu and went with lower price points to make it obvious you weren't getting the full Carthay Circle experience.

Or maybe it has something to do with not wanting to bring back the entire kitchen staff of sous chefs and pastry chefs, etc., etc.? Who knows.

But maybe someone with restaurant industry experience could weigh in?

Good point, maybe they don't want to downgrade their experience and are awaiting a full reopening.

 

[TP2000]

Per the CDC, 81.2% of all Covid-related deaths in the U.S. are people aged 65 and older.

Per the current state demographic data:

California ages 65+ = 10.6% of population
Florida ages 65+ = 21.0% of population

Per capita, Florida has twice as many 65+ aged people as California.

If 81.2% of Covid deaths are from people ages 65+ or older and Florida has twice as many 65+ aged people as California, then that means Florida's increase in deaths per million is solely based on age demographics, not policy.

If Florida had the same age demographic percentages as California, it would have a much lower death rate per million than California. I would have to plug in all age demographics for each state along with death-by-age demographics into a spreadsheet to give you exact numbers, but the math is solid.

Brilliant!

Thank you so much for that work. I knew in my brain that it had to pencil out like that due to the huge disparity in median ages between the two states, but I just didn't know how to get there on the used cocktail napkin I do all my math equations on.

Pretty much as we thought: Florida had lower death rates in 2020 than California did when the age disparity is plugged into the equation, and in 2021 Florida is outperforming California in getting Covid shots into the arms of its state citizens.

I have spent the last 25 years on Disneyland discussion forums making fun of Florida, but on the Covid thing they are beating California.
No wonder there is no movement to recall Governor DeSantis.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Even if Governor DeSantis is dumping dead bodies in the Everglades, one thing you can't fudge is age demographics.

Covid kills primarily those over age 70, and 40% of Covid deaths were in nursing homes nationwide. Florida has a much older population, fifth out of 50 states, while California has one of the youngest populations in the country, forty fifth out of 50 states.

#5 Florida = 42.2 Years Old Median Age
#45 California = 36.8 Years Old Median Age

I wonder if some math major here could figure out the impact on Florida's much older population, weighting the science that clearly shows Covid killing old people at far higher numbers than young people?

California and Florida are very close to each other in deaths per capita. The impact of Florida's much older demographics would be interesting to see taken into account when the numbers are this close...

#1 New Jersey = 2,478 Deaths Per 1 Million
#2 New York = 2,317 Deaths Per 1 Million
#26 Florida = 1,295 Deaths Per 1 Million
#33 California = 1,120 Deaths Per 1 Million
#50 Vermont = 293 Deaths Per 1 Million

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

Just last night I grabbed this video of Gov. DeSantis on his boat off the Miami coast...

 

[cmwade77]

I guess I just don't see how these rules are different for any food item I mentioned vs what they are serving.

Availability and prep time/conditions, it may also be storage conditions required that are not conducive to social distancing.

 

[J2B]

Just last night I grabbed this video of Gov. DeSantis on his boat off the Miami coast...

View attachment 530726

Dexter??

 

[TP2000]

Availability and prep time/conditions, it may also be storage conditions required that are not conducive to social distancing.

The majority of cases of Covid that are traced to restaurants happen with the kitchen staff, working in close quarters for hours on end shoulder to shoulder. So if Disney is actually following some Science & Data and trying to keep the kitchens depopulated, then good for them!

Meanwhile, a bunch of Shut It Down! folks in LA and San Francisco are hypocritically ordering Doordash...

 

[Californian Elitist]

The majority of cases of Covid that are traced to restaurants happen with the kitchen staff, working in close quarters for hours on end shoulder to shoulder. So if Disney is actually following some Science & Data and trying to keep the kitchens depopulated, then good for them!

Meanwhile, a bunch of Shut It Down! folks in LA and San Francisco are hypocritically ordering Doordash...

Believing in social distancing/limited contact and having one person pick up food for you and drop it off on your porch is not being hypocritical.

 

[el_super]

Meanwhile, a bunch of Shut It Down! folks in LA and San Francisco are hypocritically ordering Doordash...

Are you, as someone who believes restaurants should be open, being hypocritical if you eat at home?

 

[chadwpalm]

Believing in social distancing/limited contact and having one person pick up food for you and drop it off on your porch is not being hypocritical.

What does a single delivery driver have to do with the people in the kitchen you ordered from not being socially distant? TP2000 is inferring that by ordering meals from an app you are keeping restaurant kitchens open where multiple people work in close quarters. Had nothing to do with the method of delivery.

Are you, as someone who believes restaurants should be open, being hypocritical if you eat at home?

hy·poc·ri·sy
noun
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Your argument is illogical and ad hominem at best. Ordering from a restaurant when you believe they should be shut down is hypocritical because you are acting contrary to your belief.

Believing restaurants should stay open but choosing to cook a meal at home doesn't change your belief that restaurants should stay open, therefore there's no hypocrisy. That's like saying you believe apples are healthy but because you don't eat one for every single meal you are a hypocrite. Your actions in this case do not compromise your beliefs.

I'm all for people disagreeing on beliefs and ideas (there's plenty of that around here), but silly ad hominem arguments don't further the discussion along.

 

[el_super]

Your argument is illogical and ad hominem at best. Ordering from a restaurant when you believe they should be shut down is hypocritical because you are acting contrary to your belief.

TP's argument in which he reduced and labeled people as "Shut it Down Folks" was an ad hominem fallacy.
His base argument was of course, illogical, as there are people who believe in multiple levels of restrictions including limiting outdoor and indoor dining at an establishment, that doesn't equate to a belief that every restaurant needed to be completely shut down.

It is not at all hypocritical to suggest that restaurants need to limit potential exposure by operating as take out only.

It's not at all hypocritical to also think that restaurants operating as take out only, still represent a risk to infection, but that the overall positive economic gain to be had, can outweigh the danger.

It is, a logical fallacy to assume that the only possible options people can subscribe to are between restaurants being 100% open, or 100% closed.

The question I posed to TP was only meant to highlight to absurdity of his position.

 

[Disney Irish]

What does a single delivery driver have to do with the people in the kitchen you ordered from not being socially distant? TP2000 is inferring that by ordering meals from an app you are keeping restaurant kitchens open where multiple people work in close quarters. Had nothing to do with the method of delivery.


hy·poc·ri·sy
noun
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Your argument is illogical and ad hominem at best. Ordering from a restaurant when you believe they should be shut down is hypocritical because you are acting contrary to your belief.

Believing restaurants should stay open but choosing to cook a meal at home doesn't change your belief that restaurants should stay open, therefore there's no hypocrisy. That's like saying you believe apples are healthy but because you don't eat one for every single meal you are a hypocrite. Your actions in this case do not compromise your beliefs.

I'm all for people disagreeing on beliefs and ideas (there's plenty of that around here), but silly ad hominem arguments don't further the discussion along.

It was never about shutting down restaurants completely, but rather to limit the communal aspect of dining at a restaurant in order to limit exposure and the spread of COVID amongst not only customers but also employees. If a restaurant is requiring testing of its employees, as they should, exposure is limited to only the kitchen staff with takeout and delivery only options.

Whereas a fully open restaurant has no limited exposure because you potentially have thousands of customers all mixing potentially causing an outbreak.

Its a lot easier to contact trace a dozen or so exposed kitchen staff and their families rather than potentially thousands of exposed customers and all their families from unknown areas.

 

[Californian Elitist]

What does a single delivery driver have to do with the people in the kitchen you ordered from not being socially distant? TP2000 is inferring that by ordering meals from an app you are keeping restaurant kitchens open where multiple people work in close quarters. Had nothing to do with the method of delivery.

What do folks not understand about people not wanting too much close contact with too many people?

I read his post and saw the part about the kitchen. People working in a kitchen versus many other examples with dozens and dozens of people in one space... Not the same.

People aren’t against any and all contact, which is what folks don’t understand.