Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

Status
Not open for further replies.

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Ask and you shall receive....

Could not find the article but sure this will work! Did a general search and this was first to pop up.

http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Stanley_King_5515269/

Thanks, I was trying to search for it but to no avail. Does a monorail driver work alone most of the time? That would explain why he wasn't caught during work. Probably touched kids in a loving way or Disney nice way. Maybe stepped over the line a couple times but wasn't reported. Just got a weird look by the parents and off they went.

Nice comments on that link. He was placed in a very bad position. He utilized bad judgment. He realizes he made a big mistake. He is remorseful. Stanley has a spotless record and has never been arrested prior to this tragic situation.

Talk about an enabling parent or certainly sounds like it. Said he was never arrested before then. That's because he got away with it too many times. If they think this was his only time, they are mistaken. He's been doing this for years.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
I dont blame them for monitoring. I would do the same thing. If they do have people on fan sites attempting to perform damage control it seems that would somewhat prove they are aware the fans are not responding well to this. The "im with the band" t-shirts was the first nod. Propaganda doesnt work so well when it is that obvious. Seems that department is just as incompetent as the i.t. dept.

Or it might just have been the same people who came up with the idea of having an event where you can buy t-shirts at a merchandise truck that have said merchandise truck on them. There the magic was truly so limited, that it was very difficult to detect even.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
I think the whole MM+ and band were announced way to early! This never should have been mentioned until it was ready to roll! So much confusion, so many questions and such!

Data mining is how companies do business now a days and is so common everywhere you go. Disney decided to jump on that band wagon. Yes people don't like it which I understand, but this is our future now with big businesses and it isn't going away anytime soon.

I don't see it as such a huge deal, I mean you drive your car, you are filmed, you walk down the street, you are filmed, you shop at a store, you are filmed, and so on and so on.

The patriot act took all our privacy away and we can blame our gov for that. Heck, they have been filming you at Disney for years as well! You can't even pick your nose without it being caught by some kind of tech!

All this talk of the bands and privacy is pointless because it isn't going away. If you don't like it thats ok, but all these arguments about it won't make it stop.

Welcome to America in 2013! The land of the not so free anymore!

I can accept that for years Disney has "tracked" me. They know how many times I've been. They know what resorts I stayed in, how long, how much I spent, what restaurants we ate, which parks we went to, etc. But I never felt like they were physically tracking my every step and stop along the way. I've felt that they used little offers and other gimmicks to entice me to do some things but never felt as if they were truly trying to pick my brain and steer me. They're going waaaaaay to far with all this. It's like they want guests to step thru the gates and become puppets. They're trying to attach too many strings in the name of enhancements. It's too much and too far. Sure, one could relax and let Disney do all the driving. But, conversely, you're tied & tethered should you decide to step away. Invasive. And, hello, I do not want someone looking over the stall doors knowing if I wipe front to back or back to front. It's just waaaaaaaay too much for comfort. I require a lot more elbow room...commonly referred to as anonymity.
 

hpyhnt 1000

Well-Known Member
It should also be mentioned that Disney addresses the aim/goal/mandate of NGE to include the forced “migration” of guests from “desirable areas and attractions” to “less popular ” locales.

Moreover, there is a referencing to “limitations on actual resources” that appears to indicate Disney is greatly motivated to strictly govern your experience which could include your exclusion if TWDC determines its limited resources at WDW could be better served by not providing you access. For example, a childless couple in the 45+ demo could be determined to be unworthy or ‘a drain’ on resources when contrasted with the potential of a young family with several additional revenue streams and new data lines for mining.

A lot of...lets say intriguing details in this post. The possibility of cameras, biometrics and facial recognition combined with the GPS and other spacial technologies is both amazing and worrying. If they could ever pull it off it would be a marvel of technology, but at the same time a "how to" guide for the establishment of a future police/surveillance state.

But the classification of guests as those who are more desireable and those who are "a drain" on the park's resources is something that really got my attention, mainly because it begins to explain the cost-benefit analysis conversation that must have been had at some point. There seems to be the hunch on these boards (one that I agree with) that Disney would sell a lot of the data they acquire to third parties and that is where most of the money would come from. But this new way of classifying guests (based on the information that is collected by the Big Mouse surveillance/tracking system) is another component toward getting the most money from each guest. Next Gen is more than just getting you to plan every facet of your entire trip so that you stay within WDW resort limits; its about determining which guests/families are the most profitable AND which have the potential to be the most profitable in the years ahead.

You are still missing the point. The system is not intended to make your vacation "better" or to provide you with a more immersive experience. The system is intended to determine how much value you represent to WDW as a customer and then tailor your experience based on what revenue WDW can realize from your access to the park's assets.

Here's the scenario (I'm sure all of the apologists will paint this as some Dystopian nightmare that will never come true but just ponder it.)
Let's say that the system determines that you are a "low value" customer. That may be based on your previous spending on site, the discount that you booked your vacation under or any number of other metrics but it basically represents what your presence on property "costs" WDW. You then go to schedule a FP+ for an "E" ticket attraction, what prevents the reservation system from denying you a spot during a peak time because you've been tagged as a "low value" customer? Those "prime" ride times which are already well known to WDW and would be tiered out so that they can provide a "high value" customer access to that slot thus making THEIR experience better and rewarding them for paying full price or spending X number of dollars over a preset threshold. Now apply that same theory to every "resource" on property...shows, restaurants, etc. It's great for business because they can still offer publicly discounted vacations without those people that book that discounted rate to have the same "full" (ie expensive) experience as someone that paid rack rate for their room.

So, you're probably thinking I'll just opt out! They can't sort me as a tiered asset if I'm not wearing that magical manacle! First, if NGE is implemented in this way then they have fundamentally broken the system as it existed prior to FP+. Lines will be longer for stand-by, restaurants will have even less walk up availability and shows will be booked solid. Second, it sounds more an more like the magicbands are just a component of the tracking/human widget management solution they are building. How are you going to opt out of camera based face recognition? Hey, the next big thing coming to every WDW ticket vendor on I-Drive will be anti face recognition cream (aka sun screen.)

This... x1000. Its exactly my thoughts as well.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
You see, that's what I think is the problem and it is two fold. One is that, at this point they and we don't know what it is actually going to do. They have barely scratched the surface with their intended usage. And two, the "evil" parts that everyone is concerned about was probably not part of the intended objective. That was perhaps an unforeseen problem. To be more explicit, since the system is only in trial mode at the moment and at the moment there are some glaring problems with security, does that mean that this is what was intended or is that a glitch in the current system. Do we know for sure that they will fully implement this system before they have solved this problem? To counter the argument, yes it is possible that they might, but it is also possible that since the spotlight has been shown on them over the past year, there no longer is the idea that Disney isn't letting everyone know what is going on with it. What they don't directly say, someone has managed to "leak" out to the media (like this one) and bring attention to it.

The only idea that we have right now is what we have managed to get from our sources, which is limited, and the rest is fan based guessing and speculation of what, not only it is, but what it's intent is. If and when this system is fully implemented, just how long do you think it will take for everyone to know exactly what they are doing with it. If it is half of what everyone is saying, it will be like a trumpet sounding in the forest.

I have yet to hear anyone give me a convincing argument as to how Disney is going to "force" me to spend more money then I have by using this unless they plan on using the information gleaned from us to kidnap our children and hold them for ransom. (watch someone run with that statement) I stated ages ago that I felt that the investment return was never really focused on the current guests completely. In fact, I felt that it was a very small portion of that and the rest, if successful, would come from selling the basic system to other places. Now just as recently as yesterday, Spirit has stated that his information tells him that Disney is not in this alone. Translation, others will benefit from the system that Disney owns and will sell to them to recoup R&D costs, then Disney would have a new, state of the art system and others will have paid for it.

Again, I would like to see what we end up with before I start wetting my pants, fretting over something that still doesn't exist in full form. As far as Disney wanting to decide for me...this is their company, not mine. They are free to do whatever they want with or without my approval. When it's installed and running and I don't like what I see, then I can decide if it's acceptable to me or not. I know we all have a right to bare arms, but, I don't foresee them holding a gun to my head forcing me to participate unless I want too. That's why I think this whole argument is just plain silly. It is based on almost no information, (you yourself have stated that they haven't given any) and conclusions are being jumped too, based on rumors and paranoia and any of us that say, get a grip are looked at like fools. The view from this side is about the same. It could be pure evil or it could be a workable system once the "bugs" are worked out. Since this isn't really a "fanbois" type problem, pixie dust doesn't enter the scenario. It is a business system that isn't fantasy, it is real in whatever form it eventually takes. I prefer to wait until the product is delivered to decide which end of the fulcrum that it falls on.

I get what you're saying and I don't like to think of myself as an overreacting doomsday person. However, what I do know is that the capabilities of what Disney is setting up are waaaaay beyond anything I'm comfortable with. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig who finds out the hard way just how Disney intends to use/misuse their new toys. As a child I was one to stand to the side in the shadows watching what others did, see how it played out, then decide what I wanted to do. That's me. I'll watch to see how this plays out for others. Still, hard to accept the possibilities paired with lack of info. If Disney was more forthcoming maybe I'd feel differently. I definitely know what their intentions and interests are: my money. It's a matter of figuring out just how ruthlessly they'll pursue it.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
You see, that's what I think is the problem and it is two fold. One is that, at this point they and we don't know what it is actually going to do. They have barely scratched the surface with their intended usage. And two, the "evil" parts that everyone is concerned about was probably not part of the intended objective. That was perhaps an unforeseen problem. To be more explicit, since the system is only in trial mode at the moment and at the moment there are some glaring problems with security, does that mean that this is what was intended or is that a glitch in the current system. Do we know for sure that they will fully implement this system before they have solved this problem? To counter the argument, yes it is possible that they might, but it is also possible that since the spotlight has been shown on them over the past year, there no longer is the idea that Disney isn't letting everyone know what is going on with it. What they don't directly say, someone has managed to "leak" out to the media (like this one) and bring attention to it.

The only idea that we have right now is what we have managed to get from our sources, which is limited, and the rest is fan based guessing and speculation of what, not only it is, but what it's intent is. If and when this system is fully implemented, just how long do you think it will take for everyone to know exactly what they are doing with it. If it is half of what everyone is saying, it will be like a trumpet sounding in the forest.

I have yet to hear anyone give me a convincing argument as to how Disney is going to "force" me to spend more money then I have by using this unless they plan on using the information gleaned from us to kidnap our children and hold them for ransom. (watch someone run with that statement) I stated ages ago that I felt that the investment return was never really focused on the current guests completely. In fact, I felt that it was a very small portion of that and the rest, if successful, would come from selling the basic system to other places. Now just as recently as yesterday, Spirit has stated that his information tells him that Disney is not in this alone. Translation, others will benefit from the system that Disney owns and will sell to them to recoup R&D costs, then Disney would have a new, state of the art system and others will have paid for it.

Again, I would like to see what we end up with before I start wetting my pants, fretting over something that still doesn't exist in full form. As far as Disney wanting to decide for me...this is their company, not mine. They are free to do whatever they want with or without my approval. When it's installed and running and I don't like what I see, then I can decide if it's acceptable to me or not. I know we all have a right to bare arms, but, I don't foresee them holding a gun to my head forcing me to participate unless I want too. That's why I think this whole argument is just plain silly. It is based on almost no information, (you yourself have stated that they haven't given any) and conclusions are being jumped too, based on rumors and paranoia and any of us that say, get a grip are looked at like fools. The view from this side is about the same. It could be pure evil or it could be a workable system once the "bugs" are worked out. Since this isn't really a "fanbois" type problem, pixie dust doesn't enter the scenario. It is a business system that isn't fantasy, it is real in whatever form it eventually takes. I prefer to wait until the product is delivered to decide which end of the fulcrum that it falls on.
@ParentsOf4 has a good point. The resistance other industries have displayed towards transparency or releasing of information is vital to understanding what Disney is attempting. It doesnt matter if you wait till the system is up and running before you judge it. It will probly be too late by then. I fully understand your point of trying to not choose sides but if history teaches us anything (which it should) it is obvious that they have a much larger agenda at hand and it is far from anything to do with enhancing guest experience. They say all the tests have gone great and there are no problems. We know that is a lie. Same thing other industries have done when concern is raised. Tobacco corps. lied and said there were no problems when there truly were. Other industries lied and said everything was great and the people who are concerned are nut jobs. It is quite simply the LACK of information they release that is troubling. It seriously feels that Disney has just become corrupt at the higher levels. Walt himself was very hands on with every detail while building Disneyland and was in the park all the time, and he was the Top Dog of the company! The execs in charge of the parks now hardly ever step foot in them. You can spot their ignorance when you watch crap like Ultimate Walt Disney World or any of the other documentaries. The structure of the company is far removed from what it once was.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I have yet to hear anyone give me a convincing argument as to how Disney is going to "force" me to spend more money then I have by using this unless they plan on using the information gleaned from us to kidnap our children and hold them for ransom.
Please consider some of my earlier posts on this thread from this weekend explaining Disney’s possible plans and how it adversely impacts you, the consumer. Effectively, Disney wants to collect and cross-reference a ton of information about you, including financial and behavioral information, to identify your “buyer’s reserve price” and make sure you are charged exactly that.

Unless you are a student of business or deal with auctions on a regular basis, you might be unfamiliar with the concept of a “reserve price”. In essence, a “seller’s reserve price” is the minimum a seller would be willing to sell an item for. If you’ve ever bid on eBay, you might have seen this as a “reserve price”. Less familiar is the idea of a “buyer’s reserve price”; the most a buyer would be willing to pay for something.

Consider the following auction example.

I’m selling an art painting worth millions. I know there are several bidders in the room interested but I don’t know how much they’d be willing to spend. In this case, the painting would go for only one bid above what the second highest bidder (called the underbidder) would be willing to pay. To many, the winning bid could be reasonably considered “fair market value”.

Now let’s say I am the seller and through a common acquaintance, I was able to find out what the high bidder’s reserve price was. I could then plant someone in the auction room and make sure they forced the bid up to that buyer’s reserve price. Great for me, the seller. Very bad for the buyer.

By collecting vast amounts of financial and behavioral data, Disney is trying to determine your buyer’s reserve price. Using a simplistic example, if they determined you were willing to pay $120 for a one-day ticket but everyone else was willing to pay only $100, they could raise ticket prices to $120 and then offer everyone except you a $20 off coupon.

What we’ve seen on these threads is a tendency for Big Business advocates to view this as “good”; the free marketplace in action.

I tend to view this as an unfair business practice, like knowing the buyer’s reserve price in the auction example I described above.

If Disney wants to find out my buyer’s reserve price, then perhaps they should disclose their seller’s reserve price. What’s the minimum they would be willing to sell me a ticket for?

Somehow, I don’t think they would be willing to do that.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
and you think every CM in the Walt Disney Company will have access to all of the same information without any restrictions or security mechanisms???

Without detailing the guts of the devices, as that's proprietary as Disney modified these existing Apple tech products, you -- the CM with the handheld device -- have access to that guest's itinerary. Important distinction here though, when running a typical charge you would likely only see the MAGIC band holder's identifiers. You're even prompted to refer to the guest by his or her first name (again, before, I suppose, it was just too hard to read that information from a card...)
BUT, the devices -- the iPad and iPhone based ones -- have 'menued' or tiered options allowing the CM to select any information within the NGE portfolio Disney has generated on you. Yes, by design, this includes where you are from, who you are traveling with, even where the system has detected you as having visited and where your next stop is supposed to be. All of this is supposed to make your experience all the more personal.
Right now, and on the devices I was privy to, you could find information that went well beyond the individual and the 'need-to-know' level at the location. You can find out not just the details of Guest XYZ's present trip, but the system appears to have integrated 'knowledge' of your 'relationship' with TWDC. There are fields for information to further enhance identification and further profile you.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
Thanks, I was trying to search for it but to no avail. Does a monorail driver work alone most of the time? That would explain why he wasn't caught during work. Probably touched kids in a loving way or Disney nice way. Maybe stepped over the line a couple times but wasn't reported. Just got a weird look by the parents and off they went.

Nice comments on that link. He was placed in a very bad position. He utilized bad judgment. He realizes he made a big mistake. He is remorseful. Stanley has a spotless record and has never been arrested prior to this tragic situation.

Talk about an enabling parent or certainly sounds like it. Said he was never arrested before then. That's because he got away with it too many times. If they think this was his only time, they are mistaken. He's been doing this for years.

Wow, I didn't see the comments on the page. Based on reading the comments it seems like that situation is worse than what he was specifically arrested. I have shadowed in transportation and it seems that drivers...pilots...are pretty much only alone while driving or at some of the monorail stations (resorts). Other than that I am not 100% sure. One of the responses appears from a previous co-worker that talks about working with him so I am sure others saw it. Also said that management was aware of him.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
and you think every CM in the Walt Disney Company will have access to all of the same information without any restrictions or security mechanisms???
We have no info on how many cast members will have the iPads but from 74s initial post it seems at least waiters at restaurants and probably others around the park too. My guess would be most customer facing CMs. That's a lot of people.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
We have no info on how many cast members will have the iPads but from 74s initial post it seems at least waiters at restaurants and probably others around the park too. My guess would be most customer facing CMs. That's a lot of people.

I posted a while back that Disney went on a hiring spree for more Guest Relations Cast Member who will be armed with ipads. I think more Cast Members will have them than we realize.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Please consider some of my earlier posts on this thread from this weekend explaining Disney’s possible plans and how it adversely impacts you, the consumer. Effectively, Disney wants to collect and cross-reference a ton of information about you, including financial and behavioral information, to identify your “buyer’s reserve price” and make sure you are charged exactly that.

Unless you are a student of business or deal with auctions on a regular basis, you might be unfamiliar with the concept of a “reserve price”. In essence, a “seller’s reserve price” is the minimum a seller would be willing to sell an item for. If you’ve ever bid on eBay, you might have seen this as a “reserve price”. Less familiar is the idea of a “buyer’s reserve price”; the most a buyer would be willing to pay for something.

Consider the following auction example.

I’m selling an art painting worth millions. I know there are several bidders in the room interested but I don’t know how much they’d be willing to spend. In this case, the painting would go for only one bid above what the second highest bidder (called the underbidder) would be willing to pay. To many, the winning bid could be reasonably considered “fair market value”.

Now let’s say I am the seller and through a common acquaintance, I was able to find out what the high bidder’s reserve price was. I could then plant someone in the auction room and make sure they forced the bid up to that buyer’s reserve price. Great for me, the seller. Very bad for the buyer.

By collecting vast amounts of financial and behavioral data, Disney is trying to determine your buyer’s reserve price. Using a simplistic example, if they determined you were willing to pay $120 for a one-day ticket but everyone else was willing to pay only $100, they could raise ticket prices to $120 and then offer everyone except you a $20 off coupon.

What we’ve seen on these threads is a tendency for Big Business advocates to view this as “good”; the free marketplace in action.

I tend to view this as an unfair business practice, like knowing the buyer’s reserve price in the auction example I described above.

If Disney wants to find out my buyer’s reserve price, then perhaps they should disclose their seller’s reserve price. What’s the minimum they would be willing to sell me a ticket for?

Somehow, I don’t think they would be willing to do that.
Damn, your good. Keep it comin'!
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it's because I'm Canadian and am way less worried about being tracked, but seriously Disney, give me a whole bunch more cool rides and things to do, and I don't care how closely you want to track me.
Send me targeted discounts - I don't care.
Just stop pi$$ing around, and take a page out of Uni's book and just build something, for Pete's sake.

Agree 100%. I'm not really all that bothered by the tracking, I'm just disappointed that money isn't being allocated for new attractions and entertainment options in the parks.
 

scout68

Well-Known Member
I have to think if we were to have full disclosure most would rest a bit easier. They may still be a opposed but a measure of faith would be reinstated. The discomfort caused by the lack of honesty is...well...dishonest.

In the words of the late Howard Hughes (or Leo at least)...

Show me the blueprints Show me the blueprints Show me the blueprints Show me the blueprints Show me the blueprints Show me the blueprints.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom