Soarin' Expansion and new Soarin' Around the World film

[Mike S]

And maybe that is the bigger problem. Disney should have been able to see the need for capacity in the 2 parks but they went ahead and went cheap by not giving the rides the capacity they should have.

And by not adding new rides consistently after Soarin' and TSMM opened.

 

[Goofyernmost]

And maybe that is the bigger problem. Disney should have been able to see the need for capacity in the 2 parks but they went ahead and went cheap by not giving the rides the capacity they should have.

I'm sorry... how would they know that before they even opened again? Do they have a clairvoyant on payroll?

 

[matt9112]

I'm sorry... how would they know that before they even opened again? Do they have a clairvoyant on payroll?

park annual attendance divided by attractions....seems simple.

 

[erasure fan1]

I'm sorry... how would they know that before they even opened again? Do they have a clairvoyant on payroll?

You don't need to be a clairvoyant, just not an idiot. I'm pretty sure Disney knew it would be popular because of how popular it was at Cali. The popularity was the whole reason it was brought over during the happiest celebration. So couple that with the added demand of epcot and full well knowing the capacity limitations, Disney should have known they needed to add better capacity.

 

[Admiral01]

It wouldn’t take them adding a bunch flat rides to Epcot to cut down Soarin’s wait times. Have a popular attraction in the Imagination pavilion and UOE along with re-opening the WOL pavilion with something that draws a crowd and you will see Soarin’s wait time go down. The problem is now there are so few attractions that draw people in. You have Soarin and TT with long wait times, occasionally SSE and Mission Space with moderate wait times and pretty much everything else is a walk on or under 15 minutes most of the time. Have more than 2 draws to the park and the crowds will spread out.

The comparison with DCA is that DCA has several draws that spread out the crowds, not just rides but popular rides. Epcot does not.

Plus, DCA is walkable to DL. You can pop back and forth, giving easy access to the entire resort's attraction portfolio. Each of the WDW parks is relatively well isolated from the other parks. You can park hop, but you wouldn't walk go back and forth between EPCOT and MK 4 or 5 times a day, as you can at Disneyland.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You don't need to be a clairvoyant, just not an idiot. I'm pretty sure Disney knew it would be popular because of how popular it was at Cali. The popularity was the whole reason it was brought over during the happiest celebration. So couple that with the added demand of epcot and full well knowing the capacity limitations, Disney should have known they needed to add better capacity.

I went on it in California in 2005, the big event that you mentioned. It was a walk on. I think they knew it would be popular, but, I doubt that they could have anticipated that a film depicting California would line them up in Florida.

 

[Mawg]

It wouldn’t take them adding a bunch flat rides to Epcot to cut down Soarin’s wait times. Have a popular attraction in the Imagination pavilion and UOE along with re-opening the WOL pavilion with something that draws a crowd and you will see Soarin’s wait time go down. The problem is now there are so few attractions that draw people in. You have Soarin and TT with long wait times, occasionally SSE and Mission Space with moderate wait times and pretty much everything else is a walk on or under 15 minutes most of the time. Have more than 2 draws to the park and the crowds will spread out.

The comparison with DCA is that DCA has several draws that spread out the crowds, not just rides but popular rides. Epcot does not.

I really disagree in part. EPCOT Center had amazing attractions in an innovative atmosphere. It was a both/and situation. And not a toon in sight. I still think there's other ways to add attractions in WS without a toon tie in.

Sure, they should add attractions like you say. But Soarin is an E ticket. To add enough attractions where people are going to start saying let's skip Soarn, it's just not going to happen unless you add 4 or 5 E/D ticket attraction, even then, highly doubt it. Just a few more and it makes Soarin worse as more people will come to the park for the new attractions and then still want to ride soarin. (maybe you get rid of some repeat riders) With the higher attendance than DCA Soarin at Epcot should have never been built with less than 3 theaters. If it had been built with 3 theaters from the beginning, the discussion of why build a 3rd theater over new attractions would not be going on. And, no one would have said, "Disney, why did you build Soarin with 3 theaters when you could have given us 2 and something else small too"

If you build an E ticket for the whole family type attraction with the expectation that everyone who enters your park will want to ride this ride and maybe more than once but you build it with a ride capacity that can only handle 2/3rds of your average daily guests then your setting 1/3rds your guests up for disappointment.

 

[WDWoptmist]

"This is not the announcement we were looking for" - Obi Wan

 

[BrerJon]

I went on it in California in 2005, the big event that you mentioned. It was a walk on. I think they knew it would be popular, but, I doubt that they could have anticipated that a film depicting California would line them up in Florida.

I agree with that - I went on 'Soarin' Over California' in 2001 when DCA first opened and it was a nice D-ticket I'd say, but I wouldn't have called it an E, almost but not quite. Certainly there weren't long lines.

It's only become this amazing 'must-do' in Epcot because there is so little else that has captured the public's imagination. They *could* have predicted that, certainly, but I don't really blame them for not doing so.

The trouble with this expansion is it's like expanding a freeway, all it just means even more cars come along and soon you're back to where you started. Whereas build different roads to get to the same destination and you spread traffic out.

Almost every guest will want to ride Soarin' once in their day, but that's not what causes the long lines - it's the repeat riders, those who go on it two or three times because there's not much else they see worth doing. In Disneyland lines are shorter because almost nobody would do it more than once in a day due to there being so much else to see.

How do you make people decide to only ride once? Build new attractions. Expanding the theatre won't make anyone decide to forego a second ride - without new attractions, the appeal of shorter waits will do nothing except attract more people to ride a second time in the day, and you'll soon be back where you started.

 

[Jane Doe]

Instead of expanding an old attraction maybe they could use the money and put in a brand new one instead, this would cut down the Soarin' queue and maybe bring in guests from the overcrowded Magic Kingdom.

Sorry if someone else has thought of this radical idea but I'm a very lazy man who can't be arsed to look through other responses.

 

[Jane Doe]

I agree with that - I went on 'Soarin' Over California' in 2001 when DCA first opened and it was a nice D-ticket I'd say, but I wouldn't have called it an E, almost but not quite. Certainly there weren't long lines.

It's only become this amazing 'must-do' in Epcot because there is so little else that has captured the public's imagination. They *could* have predicted that, certainly, but I don't really blame them for not doing so.

The trouble with this expansion is it's like expanding a freeway, all it just means even more cars come along and soon you're back to where you started. Whereas build different roads to get to the same destination and you spread traffic out.

Almost every guest will want to ride Soarin' once in their day, but that's not what causes the long lines - it's the repeat riders, those who go on it two or three times because there's not much else they see worth doing. In Disneyland lines are shorter because almost nobody would do it more than once in a day due to there being so much else to see.

How do you make people decide to only ride once? Build new attractions. Expanding the theatre won't make anyone decide to forego a second ride - without new attractions, the appeal of shorter waits will do nothing except attract more people to ride a second time in the day, and you'll soon be back where you started.

Ah, someone has.

I said it better though.

 

[TP2000]

Plus, DCA is walkable to DL. You can pop back and forth, giving easy access to the entire resort's attraction portfolio. Each of the WDW parks is relatively well isolated from the other parks. You can park hop, but you wouldn't walk go back and forth between EPCOT and MK 4 or 5 times a day, as you can at Disneyland.

But unless you've actually been to Disneyland, you couldn't and wouldn't understand that.

The entire Disneyland Resort is comparable in size to the Epcot property with the Yacht and Beach Club resorts adjacent to it. Here's a comparison taken at the same scale of those two properties, Epcot and Disneyland Resort. Look at this photo and then try to comprehend that there are just as many rides/attractions and major daily entertainment spectaculars (parades, fireworks, water shows) at Disneyland Resort as there are in the entire WDW complex of four theme parks.

Disneyland Resort is an incredibly compact property densely packed with attractions, shows and entertainment, equal to all of WDW's four theme parks combined. But unless you've spent a couple days in Anaheim, a WDW fan would have no idea how that could even work, much less happen.

 

[TP2000]

I think they knew it would be popular, but, I doubt that they could have anticipated that a film depicting California would line them up in Florida.

I haven't lived in Florida (but visited many times), but I've lived in several East Coast and Southern states in the 20th century. While the people in those states are generally wonderful, the topography is mostly flat, boring, and dull to see from the ground. From the air they get even more flat and more dull. If you lived in Florida, or anywhere east of Kansas, you'd be amazed at the dramatic geographical and ecological diversity that is the State of California. Soaring over California, even just a 4 minute Cliff's Notes version, is a truly impressive sight to behold.

And there's a reason why the Beach Boys never sang songs about Ohio.

I don't blame all those East Coasters and Midwesterners one bit who scramble for Fastpasses and wait for hours for the chance to fly over California for a few minutes. Plus, the grand finale' of the attraction is Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom of Disneyland! How can you top that?!?

 

[Goofyernmost]

I haven't lived in Florida (but visited many times), but I've lived in several East Coast and Southern states in the 20th century. While the people in those states are generally wonderful, the topography is mostly flat, boring, and dull to see from the ground. From the air they get even more flat and more dull. If you lived in Florida, or anywhere east of Kansas, you'd be amazed at the dramatic geographical and ecological diversity that is the State of California. Soaring over California, even just a 4 minute Cliff's Notes version, is a truly impressive sight to behold.

And there's a reason why the Beach Boys never sang songs about Ohio.

I don't blame all those East Coasters and Midwesterners one bit who scramble for Fastpasses and wait for hours for the chance to fly over California for a few minutes. Plus, the grand finale' of the attraction is Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom of Disneyland! How can you top that?!?

Although I agree, to a degree on your statement, California is not the only place with variations in nature in the U.S. New England has scenery that is something to behold, especially, but not limited too, in the Fall. Mountain areas exist all along the east coast. It really isn't until you get to Florida that everything kinda becomes flat. And so on!

The way I see it. It is known as Soarin over California in California and it is about the place and in a park called California Adventure. Either by design or lucky happening, just by dropping the California reference when it got to Florida, it then easily became a cross section of things that might be seen from many areas within the country. California has a lot of it bunched up in one place, but, spread out across the nation you will find those same scenes, sans the Golden Gate and Disneyland. If people didn't get all bent out of shape about the California connection with the film, it would have stood on it's own. If the original hadn't been named Soarin over Cali, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

We have the same ocean on the east coast (there's only one) we just name it something different. It would be nice to see a new film, but, the content has never been the problem. It is still an awesome thing to see.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Although I agree, to a degree on your statement, California is not the only place with variations in nature in the U.S. New England has scenery that is something to behold, especially, but not limited too, in the Fall. Mountain areas exist all along the east coast. It really isn't until you get to Florida that everything kinda becomes flat. And so on!

The way I see it. It is known as Soarin over California in California and it is about the place and in a park called California Adventure. Either by design or lucky happening, just by dropping the California reference when it got to Florida, it then easily became a cross section of things that might be seen from many areas within the country. California has a lot of it bunched up in one place, but, spread out across the nation you will find those same scenes, sans the Golden Gate and Disneyland. If people didn't get all bent out of shape about the California connection with the film, it would have stood on it's own. If the original hadn't been named Soarin over Cali, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

We have the same ocean on the east coast (there's only one) we just name it something different. It would be nice to see a new film, but, the content has never been the problem. It is still an awesome thing to see.

Anybody familiar with the geography would have recognized many of the places as being specifically in California. The name is also not the only place where the California connection is made obvious. The queue video features the names of various California locales featured in the film before the spieling starts.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Anybody familiar with the geography would have recognized many of the places as being specifically in California. The name is also not the only place where the California connection is made obvious. The queue video features the names of various California locales featured in the film before the spieling starts.

Anybody that is familiar with California geography sure. Do you have a head count on what percentage of the US or Foreign population has that familiarity? Pre-show Video's are not only not taken seriously, it is usually not even heard because everyone is talking about what they want to do next, whether it be the golf ball or fast track!

 

[Texas84]

I haven't lived in Florida (but visited many times), but I've lived in several East Coast and Southern states in the 20th century. While the people in those states are generally wonderful, the topography is mostly flat, boring, and dull to see from the ground. From the air they get even more flat and more dull.

That just isn't true. You have the coasts, the Appalachians, and New England. Agree that those areas don't have the diversity of California but they are far from flat and boring. I lived in Sacramento and thought it was flat and boring.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

That just isn't true. You have the coasts, the Appalachians, and New England. Agree that those areas don't have the diversity of California but they are far from flat and boring. I lived in Sacramento and thought it was flat and boring.

Too bad they couldn't use the technology that Star Tours uses. Have a bunch of different footage filmed and you have no idea what you are going to see until the ride starts up.

 

[Wikkler]

I've lived in several East Coast and Southern states in the 20th century. While the people in those states are generally wonderful, the topography is mostly flat, boring, and dull to see from the ground. From the air they get even more flat and more dull.

I live 1 minute from the Blue Ridge Parkway and you're trying to tell me it's flat and boring there?

 

[TP2000]

That just isn't true. You have the coasts, the Appalachians, and New England. Agree that those areas don't have the diversity of California but they are far from flat and boring. I lived in Sacramento and thought it was flat and boring.

Sacramento is flat, but not nearly as boring as Fresno. Not surprisingly, Sacramento and Fresno were left off the flight path for Soarin' Over California.

Those types of small, inland, river cities are truly the boring armpit of California. And were rightly ignored by the Imagineers developing Soarin'. Who cares about a mundane and unattractive locale like Sacramento?

Sacramento - Keep Driving, you're only 90 minutes from San Francisco!

Although I agree, to a degree on your statement, California is not the only place with variations in nature in the U.S. New England has scenery that is something to behold, especially, but not limited too, in the Fall. Mountain areas exist all along the east coast. It really isn't until you get to Florida that everything kinda becomes flat. And so on!

I lived in Massachusetts for a number of years, and travelled extensively throughout the New England states. With the exception of a small area in New Hampshire, New England just seems "hilly" in spots rather than mountainous. From my years living around DC and the Carolinas, the inland hills get even more gentle the further down the East Coast you get, until they disappear entirely around the Carolina border. Lovely people though, and endlessly interesting diversity in local accents and cuisine from Savannah to Boston.

I can understand, however, how the folks who have only seen the East Coast would think their local hilly region were "mountains".

But California is really the only state you could make a 4 minute movie about for a theme park ride and impress riders with the natural sights, vistas and topography. The wild popularity of the attraction at Epcot proves that, and on behalf of Californians I say "You're Welcome!"