Seven Dwarf's Mine Train ride expectations?

[Lee]

Grizzly River Run is a knock-off ride, here the one at Knott's which opened before it in 1988.

It's a rapids ride. Like the one at Knotts, Popeyes at Uni, Kali Rapids at AK, and many more.
Sharing a ride system doesn't make a ride a knock off. If it did Splash would be considered a knock off of Timber Mountain at Knotts.

A ride doesn't require a detailed story. The story at Grizzly is as well defined as Space Mountain or the Matterhorn.

 

[GoofGoof]

I will remain optimistic until we see the finished product. Based on the sheer size and the elaborate construction site there is no way this will be on par with goofini. Maybe not as big as BTMRR but goofini is just a small kiddie coaster. You could fit at least 3 of them in the footprint of this ride. I think a lot of people have already decided the FLE is a fail without seeing much of it finished so no matter what it ends up being it will be a disappointment.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

A ride doesn't require a detailed story. The story at Grizzly is as well defined as Space Mountain or the Matterhorn.

I think that the best rides have a story, or story elements. Seven Dwarf coaster will have some story elements, and I am thankful for this. But Khali rapids and Grizzly River Run are relatively free of the story elements that make an attraction more than a ride. Consider this:

1. Matterhorn has a lot of story elements, the lost Wells Expedition, an homage to a Disney executive but also part of the story, the Abominable Snowman, is the high point of the ride, and there is little stuff like the Abominable Snowman's footprint outside of the Mountain. It is not a story (at least not until the movie is made which might mean adding stuff), but the story elements let you imagine an expedition gone wrong, and an attack by the Snowman.

2. Space mountain has a lot of story elements, they used to have a futuristic television news show on the monitors, plus there are a lot of great details that make you think of a future world where space travel is pretty common.

Grizzly River Run was sort of half-built as you've got a bear shaped mountain, and a river ride straight from Knotts with just landscaping.

No characters, which both Matterhorn and Space Mountain have. A lot of fans want there to be animatronic bears added to the river ride. Look at Big Grizzly Mountain Runaway Mine Cars, interestingly the same idea of designing a bear shaped mountain is combined with a solid story about how "things go terribly wrong", (ironic for the luckiest town in the west), and it really makes the ride. Fans overwhelmingly want something to be added to Grizzly River Run to make it something special, they have a bear shaped mountain and not single bear or critter.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

If it did Splash would be considered a knock off of Timber Mountain at Knotts.

Tony Baxter was there on opening day when several rides opened at Knotts, he was certainly inspired when he created Big Thunder and Splash, like Walt was when he visited dozens of theme parks, but they both made these attractions worthy of the Disney name by making them the best out there and by adding more story elements and in Splash's case, a very succinct story with a beginning, a middle and an end.

I like Bigfoot Rapids more than Grizzly River Run as Bigfoot had better landscaping, IMHO, and GRR just feels claustrophobic with the looming mountain/rocks. If there were story elements added to GRR then I guess that I might ride it again.

 

[bubbles1812]

(What I expect with Snow White... I figure it will be ok. Pleasant but nothing that will really wow me...though nothing about NFE really does except for the actually theming of the land, which is great. But the attractions that are going into the land don't match the theming there or the potential that the project really had. Anyways...I won't "love love love" it nor will I hate it. From my perspective it looks like a step above Barnstormer and possibly (I'll wait to reserve full judgment till I ride it) several steps below Big Thunder. I'm sure the show scenes it does have will be nice but again, knowing how the ride was originally supposed to be (more show scenes, much longer, ect), it'll be a little sad to think about what could have been.

I do agree with the others who have stated if you go in thinking it is a C ticket ride, your expectations will be met. If you go in thinking it's an E ticket, you are going to be disappointed. And I think therein lies the probably...because Disney, as far as I've seen so far, is pushing and advertising it like it's going to be an E ticket. I saw earlier comments saying Disney was emphasizing The Little Mermaid as the prime new attraction of the expansion but so far its been Mine Cart this and Mine Cart that. I'm guessing that probably has to do with LM already existing in CA so it's not like it can exactly be called new... I think Disney is potentially setting themselves up to have a good chunk of unhappy guests. They need to be careful of how the advertise the ride.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

(What I expect with Snow White... I figure it will be ok. Pleasant but nothing that will really wow me...though nothing about NFE really does except for the actually theming of the land, which is great. But the attractions that are going into the land don't match the theming there or the potential that the project really had.

I saw earlier comments saying Disney was emphasizing The Little Mermaid as the prime new attraction of the expansion but so far its been Mine Cart this and Mine Cart that. I'm guessing that probably has to do with LM already existing in CA so it's not like it can exactly be called new... I think Disney is potentially setting themselves up to have a good chunk of unhappy guests. They need to be careful of how the advertise the ride.

I agree that the landscaping and rockwork looks pretty good, and beats the rest of Fantasyland hands down. I think that the insides of the rides don't match the rockwork in the case of Mermaid as the ride was designed originally for DCA, which has less space and urgently needed a ride . . . any ride. Seven Dwarfs was originally designed for Disneyland Paris as a compliment for the Snow White Scary Adventures there, so neither ride was designed specifically for MK.

This is OK, but given the amount of press they gave the expansion, you'd figure they would have plussed the rides as needed. I think they realized that Mermaid won't be quite the hit they hoped, and are focused on the Dwarfs coaster as at least it is new and hasn't received negative reviews yet.

 

[spacemt354]

From my perspective it looks like a step above Barnstormer and possibly (I'll wait to reserve full judgment till I ride it) several steps below Big Thunder. I'm sure the show scenes it does have will be nice but again, knowing how the ride was originally supposed to be (more show scenes, much longer, ect), it'll be a little sad to think about what could have been.

Why do you keep on saying what could have been? Epcot was supposed to be a city, yet today it's not. But I don't go walking around the park thinking that "oh this could have been a city". I enjoy it for what it is, and I don't really concern myself with what could have been. If the mine train was to be anything like the size of BTMR, the ride would have taken up the majority of the Fantasyland Forest. Personally, I would rather have more attractions to see than just have one ride that takes up the majority of the land, but that is just me.

I am going to wait to hold judgement on everything until I actually see it. From the pictures that have been released, I think the themeing is fantastic, and the mermaid themes especially far exceed DCA's version. But for the attraction? I can't say. Whether it's C,D,E I don't know, and the same thing goes for the mine train. If Disney is marketing the rides as E-tickets, then I'm excited. But I'm going to take it with a grain of salt knowing that disney basically markets everything to be the best. So for now I'll just wait and hope for the best.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I still think it will be a good ride. I'm excited to ride it with my girls in 5 yeas....they are 6 months old right now. Twins!

Disney likes it enough to build it in two parks. Disney Shanghai and fantasyland Orlando.

 

[bubbles1812]

Why do you keep on saying what could have been? Epcot was supposed to be a city, yet today it's not. But I don't go walking around the park thinking that "oh this could have been a city". I enjoy it for what it is, and I don't really concern myself with what could have been. If the mine train was to be anything like the size of BTMR, the ride would have taken up the majority of the Fantasyland Forest. Personally, I would rather have more attractions to see than just have one ride that takes up the majority of the land, but that is just me.

I am going to wait to hold judgement on everything until I actually see it. From the pictures that have been released, I think the themeing is fantastic, and the mermaid themes especially far exceed DCA's version. But for the attraction? I can't say. Whether it's C,D,E I don't know, and the same thing goes for the mine train. If Disney is marketing the rides as E-tickets, then I'm excited. But I'm going to take it with a grain of salt knowing that disney basically markets everything to be the best. So for now I'll just wait and hope for the best.

I don't do that with Epcot either and even when I'm in NFE I won't probably think about what the whole of it could have looked like if they had actually stuck with the original 800 million dollar plan. But with the Mine Cart ride...they could have easily not cut down on the project. I forget where Lee described it but the original plan for just that ride didn't sound unreasonable and I think what they took out will be the difference between the mine cart ride being a c ticket vs at least a d ticket. I didn't even need it to tell the story of snow white but a few more show scenes and keeping the ride the original length it was designed as would have gone a long way. I guess I'm different from you...I would rather have one really really great ride that use all the creativity that I know imagineering has rather than a carbon copy of a relatively poorly received ride from CA, an extra spinner, and a kiddie roller coaster. Will all those attractions be fine? Sure. But they aren't anything great. E tickets bring people to the parks, it's been proven. Not extra spinners. Would you have rather had two smaller rides or EVerest? For me it'd always be EVerest.. But to each their own. How you feel is absolutely fine, I'm not making judgment on you at all because you feel differently. We just have diff feelings about it

I already agree the theming of the area looks great. It really does. Huge improvement all around. But as I said before, I don't think the attractions going in match the fantastic quality of the theming.

And my point remains, Disney is marketing it as an E ticket. Based on everything I have seen so far, it is most definitely not. It's not an Everest. It's not a space mountain. It's not even big thunder as far as I can tell. But I'm not condemning it, if that's the impression you got. Again, I said I'm sure it will be pleasant, ill probably enjoy it, but nothing groundbreaking and certainly not all Disney is capable of.

And I'm not fully judging it yet either...I realize I have to experience it for myself before I can do that. But I've read a lot about it and paid attention to what those actually privy to information about it have to say and thus far, it looks like a c ticket ride, maybe a d ticket. Which is why it's dangerous for Disney to market as an e ticket...as I said again in my above post...that sets up for a lot of disappointed guests

 

[unkadug]

Seeing as how Disney dropped the ticket system a long time ago, I'm pretty sure they will not market it as an "E" ticket.

 

[danlb_2000]

And my point remains, Disney is marketing it as an E ticket. Based on everything I have seen so far, it is most definitely not. It's not an Everest. It's not a space mountain. It's not even big thunder as far as I can tell. But I'm not condemning it, if that's the impression you got. Again, I said I'm sure it will be pleasant, ill probably enjoy it, but nothing groundbreaking and certainly not all Disney is capable of.

Where have you heard Disney market this as an E-Ticket? I just reviewed the posts on the Disney Parks Blog about it, a few press releases and the segment where they talked about it at D23. In none of these places did I hear them represent this as anything more then we already know it to be, and the term E-Ticket is never used once.

 

[bubbles1812]

Where have you heard Disney market this as an E-Ticket? I just reviewed the posts on the Disney Parks Blog about it, a few press releases and the segment where they talked about it at D23. In none of these places did I hear them represent this as anything more then we already know it to be, and the term E-Ticket is never used once.

They never use e ticket for any rides in Amy press release I've ever seen. It's just a way to talk about the "magnitude" of the ride. At least that's how I use it. I don't expect them to ever use the phrase in an actual press release. But they have hyped it as the centerpiece of NFE and something very unique..see the way they've talked about the swinging of the carts. But at the end of the day it's a kiddie roller coaster. My point still is I've seen Disney pushing it as a bit more than it will be. I've seen plenty of people on other boards talk about it as this huge thing, which it's probably not going to be. And again, I don't hate it or something. I'm sure I'll like it just fine. It's just not probably going to wow me.

 

[doctornick]

They never use e ticket for any rides in Amy press release I've ever seen. It's just a way to talk about the "magnitude" of the ride. At least that's how I use it. I don't expect them to ever use the phrase in an actual press release. But they have hyped it as the centerpiece of NFE and something very unique..see the way they've talked about the swinging of the carts. But at the end of the day it's a kiddie roller coaster. My point still is I've seen Disney pushing it as a bit more than it will be. I've seen plenty of people on other boards talk about it as this huge thing, which it's probably not going to be. And again, I don't hate it or something. I'm sure I'll like it just fine. It's just not probably going to wow me.

This strikes me just like the griping over the Dumbo queue area -- the problem here seems to be your expectations or your perceptions of what Disney is saying, not necessarily that they are doing anything wrong. I really don't think they've come close to hyping this to the degree you've mentioned. Yes, they've talked a lot about the swinging of the ride vehicles, that's what the "hype" of Disney has focused on. And the cars will swing, right? So, what is misleading?

I've never seen them describe it as an adult ride or even a thrill ride. I don't think they've compared to previous "E ticket" rides. It's certainly isn't getting the coverage and hype that Everest got. Or that Carsland was given (admittedly, that seemed to be focused the most closer to the opening, so it's certainly possible we'll see it for the Dwarfs' Train). My impression is that they've described it as a family ride with a familiar theme and a unique ride system.

A description on the construction walls: It’s a merry, musical family adventure as the mine rain swings and sways along rocky ledges, down steep mountain trails and through dark, winding tunnels. Then it’s home from work you go to join Snow White in song and celebration at the little cottage in the woods.

From this blog entry:

The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train will take you on a rollicking, musical ride into the mine “where a million diamonds shine.” The coaster will feature a first-of-its kind ride system with a train of ride vehicles that swing back and forth as they whisk along the track. The journey will be accompanied by music from the classic Disney film and animated figures of Snow White and the Dwarfs.​

 

[GoofGoof]

Disney has not hyped this as an E ticket ride. People on other boards or this board may have, but not Disney. They are talking about the new ride technology and the ride itself, but nowhere are they hyping it the way some people portray. I know that I am repeating myself, but some people are not happy with the FLE and lack of a new major attraction to MK so they are trying to setup this ride for failure. Even if it is really cool they will fall back on the statement that it is still not E ticket. Look at the threads on Casey Jr and Dumbo. A lot of really negative posts pointing out a lot of nit picky problems. If you believe the posts both new attractions are unsafe and generally don't live up to expectations. I expect no less critisim for this ride from some, but at least wait until it opens to trash it.

 

[DisDadEddie]

I think it's going to be a fun ride for young and old alike.One of those rides you'll want to go on over and over again.

 

[bubbles1812]

This strikes me just like the griping over the Dumbo queue area -- the problem here seems to be your expectations or your perceptions of what Disney is saying, not necessarily that they are doing anything wrong. I really don't think they've come close to hyping this to the degree you've mentioned. Yes, they've talked a lot about the swinging of the ride vehicles, that's what the "hype" of Disney has focused on. And the cars will swing, right? So, what is misleading?

I've never seen them describe it as an adult ride or even a thrill ride. I don't think they've compared to previous "E ticket" rides. It's certainly isn't getting the coverage and hype that Everest got. Or that Carsland was given (admittedly, that seemed to be focused the most closer to the opening, so it's certainly possible we'll see it for the Dwarfs' Train). My impression is that they've described it as a family ride with a familiar theme and a unique ride system.

A description on the construction walls: It’s a merry, musical family adventure as the mine rain swings and sways along rocky ledges, down steep mountain trails and through dark, winding tunnels. Then it’s home from work you go to join Snow White in song and celebration at the little cottage in the woods.

From this blog entry:

The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train will take you on a rollicking, musical ride into the mine “where a million diamonds shine.” The coaster will feature a first-of-its kind ride system with a train of ride vehicles that swing back and forth as they whisk along the track. The journey will be accompanied by music from the classic Disney film and animated figures of Snow White and the Dwarfs.​

I don't actually have any problem with the Dumbo queue or any of the "plusing" of the queues for that matter. You can see my comments in other threads regarding that. I think they are just fine for what they are and I don't have a problem with them in and of themselves. From my observations, and from my observations even on this thread, people have higher expectations than what is actually going to be presented as the final product. Maybe that's on them to a degree but some of it is on Disney too. The blog post and the description on the walls is not the only thing that has been mentioned about it. I'm sure we will see more going foward. It's still a year and a half away and will be the final thing to open in NFE.

 

[doctornick]

I don't actually have any problem with the Dumbo queue or any of the "plusing" of the queues for that matter. You can see my comments in other threads regarding that.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you specifically where complain about the Dumbo queue, just that the nature of the complaint was similar.

IFrom my observations, and from my observations even on this thread, people have higher expectations than what is actually going to be presented as the final product.

That may be true, but IMHO that's virtually all on those people with lofty expectations and not on Disney. Just like people complaining about the Dumbo queue not being what they expected, even though it fits what Disney described. The problem is that people take certain descriptions, form something in their mind about what it means and that get disappointed and complain when the final product doesn't meet the standards of what they wanted. I mean, it's cool for people to imagine what they want, but you can't blame Disney for not delivering something that they didn't promise.

Maybe that's on them to a degree but some of it is on Disney too. The blog post and the description on the walls is not the only thing that has been mentioned about it. I'm sure we will see more going foward. It's still a year and a half away and will be the final thing to open in NFE.

By all means, I'd be happy to see such misleading descriptions from Disney. Honestly, I googled the project and those were the best descriptions I could find from Disney sources. I don't really recall any sort of advertising that would promote the Dwarfs' Train as an "E-Ticket". My impression is that they have hyped the ride as a Family Ride with music and scenes and a novel vehicle system. Which seems to fit everything we know about it. Even with cutting the budget and removing show scenes doesn't seem to invalid how they have been promoting the ride.

YMMV.

 

[Ignohippo]

The biggest problems with expectations on this thing are because
(A) how incredibly long it's going to take them to build it
(B) more attractions and a unique land were scrapped to pay for it

Another thing I'm having a HUGE problem with the SWMT is that it's supposedly a "family ride" yet is somewhere between Barnstormer and BTMRR. Fantasyland should be for all ages. If you can't take your 4 or 5 year old on it, or your 65 year old grandmother, then it's an epic fail IMO.

DL's Fantasyland works so incredibly well because it's made for EVERYONE. I'd be much more excited for something like the Storybook Canal Boats than this (and it probably would have cost them 1/10th as much).

 

[Ignohippo]

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you specifically where complain about the Dumbo queue, just that the nature of the complaint was similar.



That may be true, but IMHO that's virtually all on those people with lofty expectations and not on Disney. Just like people complaining about the Dumbo queue not being what they expected, even though it fits what Disney described. The problem is that people take certain descriptions, form something in their mind about what it means and that get disappointed and complain when the final product doesn't meet the standards of what they wanted. I mean, it's cool for people to imagine what they want, but you can't blame Disney for not delivering something that they didn't promise.



By all means, I'd be happy to see such misleading descriptions from Disney. Honestly, I googled the project and those were the best descriptions I could find from Disney sources. I don't really recall any sort of advertising that would promote the Dwarfs' Train as an "E-Ticket". My impression is that they have hyped the ride as a Family Ride with music and scenes and a novel vehicle system. Which seems to fit everything we know about it. Even with cutting the budget and removing show scenes doesn't seem to invalid how they have been promoting the ride.

YMMV.

Yes, heaven forbid we actually think Disney would deliver something mind-blowing or set the limits higher than the type of thing you'd see at your local mall.

What were we thinking?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I forget where Lee described it but the original plan for just that ride didn't sound unreasonable and I think what they took out will be the difference between the mine cart ride being a c ticket vs at least a d ticket. I didn't even need it to tell the story of snow white but a few more show scenes and keeping the ride the original length it was designed as would have gone a long way.

I think that the whole "E Ticket" debate is a cop out as even a D and C Ticket can be poorly built and designed. What Ticket is Mermaid in DCA? A D Ticket? A C Ticket? Who cares, the fact of the matter is that some scenes looked very unfinished and were completed by the use of screens and by recycling animatronics from earlier scenes which looked off to a lot of people.

I can imagine some Disney suit sneering at the fans who complain about Mermaid, tell us, "It's not one of your precious E-Tickets so it doesn't have to be up to high standards."

When Disneyland first opened, the Storybook Land Canal boats were just weeds, and the ride was bad, but later it became great (IMHO), as they added a lot of stuff. It wasn't an E-Ticket, but Walt demanded that they built real little stainglass windows and use copper fittings for the door handles even though they could have gotten by with plastic and cellophane. Walt had a legitimate excuse as he mortgaged his life insurance and almost everybody thought the park would fail.

What is Disney's excuse these days if they are making $200 million or more a year on the parks alone, and they can't finish a ride like Mermaid in DCA?

The opening of several lower quality attractions was made infamous by DCA, the Fantasyland Expansion, because they are expanding and adding two new rides, a new restaurant, a meet and greet, and a duplicate spinner, they might be tempted to go "half-way".

It looks great on the outside, and I'll love the B&B stuff, but we all know how concept art sometimes doesn't look good as reality.

Seriously, MK's Fantasyland has gotten the short end of the stick for decades, they let it sit while Disneyland got upgrades, and Tokyo's Pooh is a million times better than the one in MK. Its about time MK got some unique high quality rides.