Predicting DLR in the decades to come

[Travel Junkie]

Even with the 60th yet to get underway, I thought it might be fun to look into the crystal ball and predict how the Disneyland Resort may expand in the decades to come. This would look beyond the 60th and even looking past proposed rumors of adding lands to DL and DCA. Unlike WDW which can simply add more within their current boundaries, DLR has to look very long term as they don’t own a lot of land around them. It’s much like chess. In order to make a major move, they must move several other pieces around to set up checkmate.


What prompted the thought was this article from the OC Register.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/stadium-649981-anaheim-parking.html

It has been discussed before, but there is a possibility a large chunk of land maybe available near DLR in the near future. First, let’s go over the current plan before diving into what could occur if Disney got a hold the land at Angels Stadium.


The Current Plan:

The Toy Story lot is currently slated to be the 3rd gate. It is also rumored that Disney owns the low cost housing developments next to the lot through a third party, creating enough land for a theme park similar in size to DL. It is the larger red block below. The smaller red block is currently CM or special event parking that is eventually set to become a guest parking structure. The land in between is the Garden Walk Mall. While not currently owned by Disney (to our knowledge), the mall has been in constant financial trouble and it is conceivable they eventually can own the land for the right price. Disney also owns various lots around the resort that it uses for parking or storage.

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-third-gate-for-disneyland-anaheim-yes.html

A Door Opens?

As the article references, the Angels are currently looking restructure their deal with the city of Anaheim (which owns Angel Stadium and the land it sits on) to either provide significant upgrades to the current stadium or build a new stadium along with more favorable financial terms. The Angels are threatening to leave if no agreement is met. While this is a negotiating ploy, there are several factors in play that may make the Angels vacating the stadium a reality.

- There are numerous options to the Angels if they were to leave. Tustin and Irvine have expressed interested in working with the Angels in building a stadium. Tustin has the former Marine Corp Air base and Irvine has the Great Park, so land is not an issue. Moving to LA is also an option as Carson has expressed interest as well as anyone left out in the cold trying to build an NFL stadium. This is in addition to Anaheim finding an alternate site.

- While some cities may give in for fear of losing a pro franchise, Anaheim is in a unique situation. Three miles to the west of the Angel Stadium site sits Disneyland. Always looking into buying more land at the right price, Anaheim already has a potential replacement waiting if the Angels were to bolt. Any revenue lost by the Angels leaving would be replaced and then some if Disney were to develop the land.

It is entirely possible the Angels leave town and Disney has 150+ acres for sale on their doorstep. The question becomes what would they do if they purchased it. Two scenarios come to mind.

- Build a third gate, hotels and mini TTC at the Angel Stadium site. There is plenty of room for a major theme park and resorts. A mini TTC could connect the 3rd gate to the rest of the resort along with the Anaheim Transit complex (ARTIC) which provides train and bus service.

- They keep the 3rd gate at the Toy Story lot and turn the Angel Stadium site in the a giant TTC. All vehicle traffic is directed to one location. ARTIC provides train and bus service for those using public transit and everyone goes over to the DLR via people mover of some sort. Once hitting the resort it becomes more pedestrian friendly as cars have largely been removed from the resort. The Mickey and Friends structure can become CM parking and surface lots can be converted into resorts and/or DTD expansion.

Thoughts?

 

[kap91]

I think it's more likely the toy story lot would become the third gate, just due to its proximity. There was talk a while back of a transportation hub going in near the Angels stadium so I would think that becoming a ttc parking area is the most likely if it were to happen. That way you can keep the entire resort area walkable (one of its best features). Conceivably they'd even be able to buy out a few of the hotels in harbor blvd and make the whole thing contiguous.

Honestly though, I have trouble thinking a third gate will happen soon. I mean there's definitely a market for it, and personally I'd like to see them dump all the marvel and Star Wars IP there rather than dilute the perfection that Disneyland is....but yeah I just don't think the will is there nor do I think they feel the need. And there is a decent amount of room for expansion in both existing parks (especially if you get rid of big thunder ranch and fantasyland theater-which seems like the obvious move to make). Then again, decades go by fast - could certainly see it happening in another ten years which I guess could be seen as soon to some.

 

[TP2000]

What prompted the thought was this article from the OC Register.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/stadium-649981-anaheim-parking.html

It has been discussed before, but there is a possibility a large chunk of land maybe available near DLR in the near future. First, let’s go over the current plan before diving into what could occur if Disney got a hold the land at Angels Stadium.

I read that Lansner article also. He was just sort of speculating, and it's obvious he doesn't keep up on Disney news. His entire thesis is rather flawed, and hinges on the assumption they'd tear down the stadium to build CM parking. That's nonsense.

I think the third park on the Toy Story lot is decades away, if it ever happens. The relationship between the city and Disney isn't as cozy as the smiling photo ops would have you believe. Anaheim has made rumblings about taking the Toy Story lot away from Disney via eminent domain so they can extend Gene Autry Way all the way west to the Convention Center. That would obliterate the property and prevent any park from ever being built there.

Still, best case scenario, a third theme park in Anaheim is 25 years away in my opinion. If at all.

 

[TP2000]

There was talk a while back of a transportation hub going in near the Angels stadium so I would think that becoming a ttc parking area is the most likely if it were to happen.

You mean ARTIC? (Anaheim Regional Transportation Intermodal Center) That opened two months ago.

It's architecturally stunning, and massive, and lit up like a jukebox at night. Served by Metrolink and Amtrak trains each day, plus OCTA, Greyhound and Megabus local and intercity bus service.

It's also way, way, way too big for the volume of traffic it currently gets, even as one of the busiest stations in California. The station is devoid of people since most commuters park in the park-n-ride lot on the opposite side of the tracks near the platforms. Daily passenger loads at Anaheim could quadruple from their levels of the past 20 years and this station would still be under-utilized.

I've used the station a few times now during peak rush hours, and the interior scene of the massive station complex usually looks this devoid of humans.

It's a lot like those Chinese Ghost Cities they build just to keep people employed, but then no one ever moves there and the city sits abandoned. It looks nice though.

 

[kap91]

I guess that's it. Though when I heard about it it was to have a disneyland monorail station. Lol

 

[TP2000]

I guess that's it. Though when I heard about it it was to have a disneyland monorail station. Lol

That was a city monorail, actually. That was one of the proposals for a transit system from the stadium to the Resort District and convention center; monorail. But it was replaced by a Portland-style streetcar instead. It's supposed to be done by 2018, with a station where IHOP and the Park Vue Inn currently sit on Harbor Blvd., with a pedestrian bridge over Harbor. Anaheim calls it ARC (Anaheim Rapid Connection), here's the website. http://aconnext.com/arc/

The owner of the Park Vue Inn is throwing a fit though. That motel has been family owned for decades, they recently finished a remodeling and added a Cold Stone Creamery, and they have no interest in selling. No one from the city has said a word to them about taking their property from them via California's lax eminent domain laws. Yet their property shows up on city planning documents and even the public website as the location for a station and maintenance barn for the streetcars. Oops!

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Anaheim has made rumblings about taking the Toy Story lot away from Disney via eminent domain so they can extend Gene Autry Way all the way west to the Convention Center. That would obliterate the property and prevent any park from ever being built there.

Well that would go over like a fart in church. I'd like to meet the brave city-people who think that going after Disney is a good idea.

 

[kap91]

Well that would go over like a fart in church. I'd like to meet the brave city-people who think that going after Disney is a good idea.

That'd be a fun trial to watch.

And just to play Devils advocate...

There's no real reason they couldn't build a park there even if a road is built. One of the things Disney has perfected (and no one ever talks about) is how good they are at changing your elevation, putting you on bridges, etc without you ever noticing it. The east entrance to Disneyland resort, entrance to a bugs land, Tokyo disney sea, the utilidors, the land, Epcot, the world gateway water bridge, American adventure, are just some examples of this. Not that they ever actually would but I'd love to see them try (assuming they could get the right of way).

 

[TP2000]

Well that would go over like a fart in church. I'd like to meet the brave city-people who think that going after Disney is a good idea.

Yes, it wouldn't be pretty, and it likely wouldn't be successful for the city. But the broader point is that Anaheim's city council and city hall planning team like to make it very clear that they are not just there to do Disney's bidding. In their opinion the third park on the Toy Story lot is not at all certain, and if it does happen it's still decades away (and I can see their point there).

They would love to have a direct route via Gene Autry Way from the stadium complex to the convention center complex, as they feel tying those two city assets together would be better for the community and region long term. You don't think they built that massive six lane extension of Gene Autry Way three years ago for nothing, did you?

Gene Autry Way - Late Afternoon "Rush Hour"

It sits empty like this, even at rush hours, because it's essentially a Road To Nowhere as it dead ends on Haster and the backside of the Toy Story Lot. Gene Autry Way is even emptier than ARTIC. But it fits into a long term vision for this area that is not dependent on Disney theme parks to exist. And if it were to be extended to the convention center, it would bisect the Toy Story Lot and kill Disney's plans for a theme park there.

Future Gene Autry Way extension from an Anaheim City Planning document. What third theme park?!?

 

[Travel Junkie]

I haven’t heard of Anaheim seizing control of part of the Toy Story lot for a road extension since the mid 2000’s, but I could be wrong. Like any political entity, Anaheim doesn’t want to be seen as being pushed around, but at the end of the day it is in their interest for Disney’s presence to expand and they will work with them if DLR shows they want grow.

It is a ways off, but I can see DLR possibly in the design phase or even moving dirt around by the 75th if attendance continues at its current trajectory. They have to do a lot before then. If Toy Story is the 3rd gate, they need a another parking garage. That would be on the Pumbaa lot. In order to do that, they need to create more CM parking somewhere else. They are building a CM lot off of Ball but that wouldn’t be enough to offset losses at Pumbaa and the Katella CM lot. A lot of long term planning is involved.

Then you have resort rooms. Disney should be adding more room inventory now, not to mention if they added a 3rd gate. In other words lots of things have to occur.

 

[Travel Junkie]

The OC Register has an update on the proposed Anaheim Streetcar:

Anaheim's proposed streetcar
$298.7 million:projected construction cost

$4.3 million:projected operating cost, annually

3.2:miles

8:stops

10:streetcar fleet

60:length, in feet, of each streetcar

120:passenger capacity per streetcar

18:travel time, in minutes, from end-to-end

35 to 40:top speed, in miles-per-hour

Source: City of Anaheim

"Disney officials have not taken a public position on Anaheim’s proposed streetcar, but have included its possibility in their future plans.

Disneyland Resort wants to start construction in 2017 on a transportation center just east of Harbor Boulevard. The drop off area for buses, taxis and shuttles would be moved from the plaza outside of Disneyland’s entrance to the new hub – which could also be a streetcar stop.

Nearby, Disney wants to build a parking structure with 6,800 spaces – roughly half the size of the Mickey and Friends structure, according to preliminary plans filed Feb. 22 with the city.

Disney proposes to demolish the Carousel Inn and Suites it purchased last year for $32 million. In its place, an elevated pedestrian bridge over Harbor is proposed to link the parking structure and transit center to the theme parks."

Full article:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/streetcar-706589-anaheim-city.html

 

[Californian Elitist]

I thought the Anaheim streetcar idea was scrapped? I guess not.