Possible Attraction in France pavilion (Epcot) Update - new Attraction Greenlit

Gomer

Gomer

Well-Known Member
Tony the Tigger said:
I appreciate the time and thought you put into that.

I'm willing to accept we are just two different kinds of people.

I mean no offense by this, but based on my philosophy, I have no use for that way of thinking. When your bottom line is if the attraction were based on a movie, it's less than the same exact attraction if it were not based on a movie, this strikes me as a pointless exercise.

All that "what might have been" explanation - again, another exercise in futility IMO. It could apply to anything, anywhere. In the context of WDW, it can apply to any attraction, anywhere. What if they did something more super terrific than Snow White's Scary Adventures, and we wouldn't have wasted all those years riding it - when we could have had something amazeballs - nothing specific, just *something.* Maybe they could have thought of something better.

It could just as easily have been something worse.

The rest of this is not specifically directed towards you, @Gomer, but more broadly to the group on this thread.

What I won't grant you is what is implied in parts of some peoples' dissertations: that if people don't think like you, they are just commoners who don't get it, or can't grasp it, or just live on some lower plane or what have you.

I am a very intelligent person. I get the sense that @21stamps is, too. We can most certainly grasp it. We just disagree with you.

We emphasize or prioritize different things; that's all. Your thought process is no more correct than ours, even though some of you seem to think it is. And those of you who think no, really, we are more correct, have little to back that up. You have no Disney lineage. You have no Disney imagineering job. Presumably you've read some things and think that qualifies you in some way. I realize that sounds snarky, and if I had time, I'd reword it. I apologize, seriously.

But please correct me if any of you have real qualifications to appoint yourselves to positions of apparent authority on this subject and more than occasionally talk down to others.

It comes off sometimes as a self-congratulatory club.

I take your point, Gomer, that there are extra enthusiastic fans in various arenas. My biggest arena has been music. Yet my philosophy is consistent. While I can grasp the differences between Britney and The Beatles, I loathe hearing people disparage the former primarily to make themselves sound knowledgeable to others. I can derive enjoyment from either, perhaps for different reasons at different times. I have no use for snobbery in any arena, and I tend to stick up for the ones being disparaged. The record store I own is specifically designed to be unlike other record stores. The first thing you see when you enter is 12 feet of disco from floor to ceiling. Then you see soul/R&B. Then you see DJ 12" singles and pop albums. (Oh, and on the wall behind the counter is a beautifully displayed collection of Disney picture discs, among other things LOL.) In a separate room, you'll find the rock music. What we play in the store is mostly dance and pop music videos that we get from a local club.

That is my reaction to the indy music world after going to record stores my whole life, locally and around almost every state in the country, and finding music I like treated with no respect because people who don't even listen to it need to puff themselves up by putting it down.

So the people who think like I do are over the moon when they find us, and very loyal - and happy to be encouraged when they buy that stuff, rather than getting a look or a comment when they buy it at a more BeatlesAndPearlJamAreEverything kind of store. And the people who like that have their own area as well. We play to and show respect to both audiences, and that serves the business well, and leaves opportunities for minds to be opened on both sides.

I can play cello. I get more enjoyment from listening to Huey Lewis & The News.

In music as well as theme parks - it gets crazy when you start to take things too seriously or lose perspective or the forest for the trees. I hope those of you who are so into this have some balance in your lives. Relax and enjoy the stuff. Have realistic expectations.

But when you guys form a wall and anyone who dissents is a problem to be dealt with - it just deadens conversation. Have the conversation, it's OK. People like 21stamps and I enjoy discussing these topics, too. That's why we're here.

All JMHO. Off to finish prepping for my quickie trip to WDW tomorrow.
Click to expand...
And all that is fine. But coming into a message board full of enthusiasts and telling them it is silly or childish to care about the ideals of the art form is also an exercise in futility. You seem to imply that the snobbery is exclusive. That we are all some uniform block saying no IP's in Disney theme parks ever. But you are painting with way too broad a brush. You say we are a wall. But I think in this case you are lumping those in disagreement together unfairly. Perhaps a few are trying to shut you down, but not all. And honestly implications like the ones above about "having other interests" and making broad assumptions about the qualifications to comment or personal histories of people you don't know invite that a bit.

Since I am a musician I will go with your example. To me, putting IP rides in Epcot is akin to letting a pop star take up residence at Lincoln Center and then telling classical music fans to suck it up. "Lincoln center is a business and pop music is what most people want. The world has changed, people don't like classical and jazz anymore, so fans of a different era should learn to live with it"

I don't dislike pop. But that doesn't mean I want it taking over Lincoln Center at the expense of the great classical and jazz concerts they have there. Pop can go to MSG or one of the many huge stadiums they can fill and Lincoln Center can keep its focus.

IP can go in DHS or MK. Epcot should be able to keep its focus too. If one pop concert occurs at Lincoln Center you overlook it. A few, an you might hear some grumbles. But when 90% of the new bookings at the center are pop music, you start to worry about the future of the art form. Will fewer musicians pursue classical or jazz if they don't have these big stages to play on anymore? There are so few places left in the world to hear this type of music in comparison to pop anyway. Why kill the last great symbol of those art forms? The average pop listener won't care about these things. But as a musician and lover of all genres of music, those things would concern me and others with similar interests.

I don't see how Epcot is any different. It's not like we are picketing the ride and ruining the fun of those who enjoy it. We sit here, on a message board, commiserating with like minded people. I will be in WDW next week. I will have a great time. I won't be sitting there grumbling under my breath and shaking my fist at the Norway pavilion. We are capable of both caring about the ideals and releasing the anger to enjoy ourselves. I can both enjoy a pop song and simultaneously be upset that there is a drought of interesting music in the world these days.

Yes I am a snob. I am a snob when it comes to Epcot. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I haven't had a chance to ride Frozen yet (will check it out next week) but I imagine I would have been fine with it in Fantasyland or DHS, just as I'll rock some Huey and the News from time to time as well...just not at Lincoln Center.
 
B

Bandini

Well-Known Member
Gomer said:
The general consensus is that Rat is a decent ride and a tolerable fit even among purists for the France pavilion due to the content of the movie, right? By building it as an IP tie in it represents the idea that Imagineers are still restricted in what they can dream up. They have specific merchandising and IP factors on which they can build their rides. When you are restricted, the art will more times than not be less creative.
Click to expand...
Ironically, the most iconic attractions were not IP centered: HM and POTC. It's amazing what the Imagineers can do if they aren't required to adhere to a certain story.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Tony the Tigger said:
That is my reaction to the indy music world after going to record stores my whole life, locally and around almost every state in the country, and finding music I like treated with no respect because people who don't even listen to it need to puff themselves up by putting it down.
Click to expand...
Your opinion is not being dismissed because it is contrary, but because you repeatedly invoke language that denies the legitimacy of themed entertainment as a creative storytelling medium. Your language shows no respect towards themed entertainment. Discussions should be more than just "I like it" but you dismiss anything more than that as obnoxious, pointless dissertations intended to prop-up crippled self esteems.

Tony the Tigger said:
We emphasize or prioritize different things; that's all. Your thought process is no more correct than ours, even though some of you seem to think it is. And those of you who think no, really, we are more correct, have little to back that up. You have no Disney lineage. You have no Disney imagineering job. Presumably you've read some things and think that qualifies you in some way. I realize that sounds snarky, and if I had time, I'd reword it. I apologize, seriously.
Click to expand...
So again I will ask, exactly what titles and job experience are you looking for?
 
xdan0920

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
lazyboy97o said:
Your opinion is not being dismissed because it is contrary, but because you repeatedly invoke language that denies the legitimacy of themed entertainment as a creative storytelling medium. Your language shows no respect towards themed entertainment. Discussions should be more than just "I like it" but you dismiss anything more than that as obnoxious, pointless dissertations intended to prop-up crippled self esteems.
Click to expand...
Doesn't it just come down to there being two basic types of Disney Parks fans? The type, like us, who fell in love with the design, the little details, the history, the true magic of the parks. And the type who largely just like going to a super fun amusement park? Those two general groups always have trouble seeing eye to eye.

edit to add....

Neither side is necessarily wrong or right, or better or worse, simply different.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
xdan0920 said:
Doesn't it just come down to there being two basic types of Disney Parks fans? The type, like us, who fell in love with the design, the little details, the history, the true magic of the parks. And the type who largely just like going to a super fun amusement park? Those two general groups always have trouble seeing eye to eye.

edit to add....

Neither side is necessarily wrong or right, or better or worse, simply different.
Click to expand...
I've made similar comments in the past but lately have been having trouble with it. There shouldn't be an issue of seeing eye-to-eye because we are obstensibly looking at two different things. I think there are deeper cultural forces at play stemming from the maliciousness that was once assigned to themed entertainment. There has to be something more than just trolling to explain why so many people insist on repeatedly telling others they do not care about something.
 
P_Radden

P_Radden

Well-Known Member
@marni1971 In your opinion (and master knowledge), if they were to build a new country in WS, would it be better executed if it were an interior outdoor area like Mexico Pavilion, Biergarten, CBR food court, Maelstrom unload area etc? Or would a regular outdoor pavilion a la Morocco, UK, Canada etc be better?

Personally I really like large interior areas that are themed to outdoor areas. They have a nice tranquil/relaxing feel.
 
Last edited:
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
P_Radden said:
@marni1971 In your opinion (and master knowledge), if they were to build a new country in WS, would it be better executed if it were an interior outdoor area like Mexico Pavilion, Biergarten, CBR food court, Maelstrom unload area etc? Or would a regular outdoor pavilion a la Morocco, UK, Canada etc be better?

Personally I really like large interior areas that are themed to outdoor areas. They have a nice tranquil/relaxing feel.
Click to expand...
The unload fishing village is one of the greatest losses from Maelstrom... :(
 
Grimley1968

Grimley1968

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
The unload fishing village is one of the greatest losses from Maelstrom... :(
Click to expand...
That, and certain elements from the ride itself, such as the hole in the wall where it looked like you'd fall out backwards (it's closed now), and the multi-headed troll shouting "disappear." I didn't think FEA itself was a terrible ride, and the AA's seemed pretty well done compared to some other rides. I just miss Maelstrom and wish they'd found a way to add a Frozen ride without subtracting something a lot of people loved. It's another net non-addition at WDW. Removing the Stave Church's actual historical exhibits and replacing them with the Frozen stuff was not a huge deal, but it is like salt in the wound knowing Maelstrom is also gone. Maelstrom needed some updating (especially the queue), and the forced walk through that movie theater after the ride was ridiculous, but making almost the entire Norway pavilion Frozen-centric is just too much for me.

I have no problem at all if WDW actually adds an attraction at the France pavilion. a) That area could use a ride to distribute crowds through WS better and b) they wouldn't have to gut an existing well-loved ride, so it would be a net addition for a change. I just hope it's well done and not a clone of another Disney ride.
 
B

Bandini

Well-Known Member
Grimley1968 said:
I have no problem at all if WDW actually adds an attraction at the France pavilion. a) That area could use a ride to distribute crowds through WS better and b) they wouldn't have to gut an existing well-loved ride, so it would be a net addition for a change. I just hope it's well done and not a clone of another Disney ride.
Click to expand...
Do you consider the Rat Ride a clone?
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
P_Radden said:
@marni1971 In your opinion (and master knowledge), if they were to build a new country in WS, would it be better executed if it were an interior outdoor area like Mexico Pavilion, Biergarten, CBR food court, Maelstrom unload area etc? Or would a regular outdoor pavilion a la Morocco, UK, Canada etc be better?

Personally I really like large interior areas that are themed to outdoor areas. They have a nice tranquil/relaxing feel.
Click to expand...
I guess either could work well. The interior examples you give are wonderful. But so are the exterior spaces of Morocco and France for example. And they'd all depend on the required theme, setting, story and of course budget. Time will tell I guess. Assuming of course anything was being thought of.

Personally I love the outside-in settings but either work if executed properly.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom