"On Integrity"

[mharrington]

I found this one article on Passport 2 Dreams: http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2012/02/on-integrity.html. Herein, the author laments about how Disneyland has become favored as THE Disney park for the company, at the expense of WDW and its Magic Kingdom, and how Disneyland has impacted the Florida park, and not for the better in the author's opinion.

As a serious Disneyland fan who has visited that park far more often than the Florida resort, I have to admit I'm tickled by the notion of the company supposedly showing favoritism for the California park.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Californian Elitist]

I read this article last year. Very interesting indeed.

I feel the same way when I hear WDW vets talking about Disneyland that way. I find it funny because it was just the opposite back in the nineties and early two thousands. Disneyland vets were envious of WDW and talked about how we never got anything and WDW got everything. Seems the tables have turned.

Disneyland is a special park, and holds a title no other Disney park holds. I think the company recognizes that, very much. Not to mention you've got people like John Lasseter who's completely in love with the place, and his son is a skipper. I think Disneyland's connection with Walt Disney is the main thing that separates it with all the other Disney parks in the world, and may cause the company to look at it uniquely and slightly differently. I don't know.

I do know that this sibling rivalry will never end. I bet some Disneyland vets feel the same way about WDW, the way the author of the article feels about Disneyland.

 

[luv]

Disneyland is the favored park.

Disney is trying very hard to get us all to visit DL instead of WDW.

And they're letting WDW slip more and more all the time...because they don't care about the park or its future. They care about themselves and their current salaries and that's it.

 

[WED99]

Although it's true, it's not necessarily a bad thing. They simply don't have the funds to have two DCA sized expansions at a time, so one had to slip a touch. Now that DCA is done and it brought in a huge amount of money, DLR will have enough funds to sustain itself as well as add new attractions slowly while WDW is treated with love in the form of Avatar and a DHS expansion.

Obviously most of this is just guessing but I really feel that's the approach they are taking

 

[mharrington]

I read this article last year. Very interesting indeed.

I feel the same way when I hear WDW vets talking about Disneyland that way. I find it funny because it was just the opposite back in the nineties and early two thousands. Disneyland vets were envious of WDW and talked about how we never got anything and WDW got everything. Seems the tables have turned.

And yet it seems as if it is WDW's Magic Kingdom that got the worthwhile thing recently (namely, a new and improved Fantasyland), while the big thing in California is not in Disneyland, but at the California Adventure (namely, Buena Vista Street and especially Cars Land).

 

[Californian Elitist]

And yet it seems as if it is WDW's Magic Kingdom that got the worthwhile thing recently (namely, a new and improved Fantasyland), while the big thing in California is not in Disneyland, but at the California Adventure (namely, Buena Vista Street and especially Cars Land).

I'm not going to lie, New Fantasyland just doesn't impress me. A new restaurant, a new ride that we already have and a meet and greet. Even when the Mine Train pops up, I still think Disneyland's Fantasyland will be better, even moreso now that Princess Fantasy Faire is opening, and the new show in the Fantasyland Theater.

When you look at it, we have gotten more offerings than Magic Kingdom within almost ten years. Two or three (?) new firework shows, a new parade, a new bakery, the submarines (when did the submarines open?), refurbs. Some of these were due to the 50th birthday, which is special. The 60th is coming up, so I'm expecting something special. I don't know why milestone birthdays aren't taken as seriously for Magic Kingdom. I think its 40th celebration should have been bigger, but that's me. I was expecting them to do some really cool things. Maybe the age difference helps the feeling thatDL gets more. By the time MK turns 50, DL will be 66... Just a year year earlier, DL will be 65, another milestone age (I'm positive MK will be receiving lots more attention, though). After MK turns 50, DL turns another milestone age, 70, just four short years later.

Neither parks have received E-tickets. How about that? Where are the E-tickets? I know there's a rumor DL could be getting some but they're just that. Rumors. Nothing's been confirmed or announced, so I don't count whispers and rumors as fact.

 

[mharrington]

...the submarines (when did the submarines open?)...

Are you referring to the Nemo version? If so, then that would be 2007.

By the time MK turns 50, DL will be 66...

The author of the article took the age difference of sixteen years into account and explained that now it has become something relatively meaningless.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Are you referring to the Nemo version? If so, then that would be 2007.



The author of the article took the age difference of sixteen years into account and explained that now it has become something relatively meaningless.

Yes, Nemo. I thought it was earlier but I guess not. Thanks for that.

Yeah, I saw the author mentioned that. I disagree, especially when the author stated the age gap is small. It really isn't. Sixteen years is a lot, and enough for a person to be born, go to high school, find a job and start driving. I think the age gap contributes to the DL vs MK debacle.

 

[harveyt0206]

An age gap of 16 years may be significant at first, but it really does diminish in importance as time goes by. When WDW first opened, the facy that DL had a 16 year advance on them was important. I would have to agree that 40 years later, those 16 years don't exactly carry the same level of importance.

There is 15 years between me and my husband. When I was 23 and he was 38, it was a HUGE difference, and people often commented on it. Now that I am in my forties and he is in his fifties, that age gap does not seem as big to either us or society in general. Life has a way of equaling things out in the end.

 

[Californian Elitist]

In terms of getting attractions/new offerings at specific times, it matters. That's my point. I'm not talking about things in general. Of course it doesn't matter then.

 

[WDWFigment]

I think the bigger difference than the age gap is the average duration of stay. Despite its flagship park being older, Disneyland Resort still is not a mature theme park complex, whereas Walt Disney World Resort is. By adding more, Disneyland Resort is more likely to increase the average length of stay of guests. By contrast, Walt Disney World needs to add/enhance/etc. so that it doesn't lose ground to other Orlando-area theme parks. It doesn't have the same growth potential as Disneyland, as it has (more or less) hit the ceiling on average American vacations.

I think we'll see Disneyland continue to receive more attention as long as there's room to build and attract more tourists for more days.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I never play favorites with Disney parks. Especially nostalgia being involved. The age, being the original, whatever, none of that is relevant as to what make a park better. In some communities, many rivalry arguments among park preferences become arrogant, spiteful, and downright unpleasant. It can warp into an ego thing, thinking that something being first makes it inherently better. It's forgotten too often that what makes a Disney park special is objective quality, not nostalgia or something being the first or original. If something happens to be old AND has an advantage over something else (like the objective reasons that a fair amount of Disneyland is better than MK), then sure it wins. But the nostalgia for me has no relevance in why it's better. It's why despite my nostalgia for Magic Kingdom, I visited Disneyland Paris much later and considered it a better park than MK. It's also why Epcot Center was such an absolutely wonderful park, even though Walt Disney himself didn't have a hand in it and the end result was nothing like he envisioned.

Ideal scenario, there isn't a best Disney park. All being unique, amazing, and worth visiting (consistently improved and taken to their max potential). That's how it used to be and how it should still be. Sadly it's not anymore. Though if I were a betting man, i'd wager that Walt Disney would have been pretty upset at the spite and unpleasantness behind much of the fanbase's rivalry involving his parks. Though likely nowhere near how upset he would have been at current leadership for taking a big stinky dump all over his legacy and ideals.

Disneyland's current superior state of affairs seems to be a mixture of tragic circumstances mixed with a bit of luck. Disneyland's state of management is far more heavily scrutinized by the fans and media than WDW for one thing. The tragic deaths of guests at the mercy of poor maintenance (along with the devastatingly bad publicity) it seems was the main driving force of Disneyland's cleanup (there wasn't a choice, it was a PR nightmare). WDW has avoided a similar incident so far, so no bad press (plus WDW just doesn't have a large perfectionist fanbase). According to insiders here, Lasseter stepping in and blackmailing people is the only reason the Cars expansion ended up being as good as it was. At the mercy of the bean counters and without a creative leader with a ton of leverage, the California Adventure expansion could have flopped due to budget cuts and value engineering.

The attraction roster of Disneyland vs Magic Kingdom doesn't seem much to do with their age difference to be honest. Disneyland on opening day opened with a fair amount of attractions already present. And it continued to grow quickly within the next few years. Magic Kingdom didn't seem to grow nearly as fast. Instead they worked on building Epcot instead (fine by me, a large amount of absolutely wonderful rides/attractions everywhere). This building trend at WDW seemed to continue until Animal Kingdom was done and then dropped off from there. Disneyland looked like it went through a phase during the WDW boom where there weren't many new major attractions (except Splash and Indy). Both resorts have stagnated for long enough though regardless and need some new substantial things.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I honestly hope MK gets a new E-ticket, soon. I also want it to get a huge 50th celebration, just as Disneyland did. It deserves it. The 40th was so underwhelming... They can do better!

Good point regarding MK's competition with other Orlando theme parks. Why are most of them in Orlando and not spread out?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I think regardless of what some Disney lovers here might not wish to believe, the Disney company (whether current or future leadership) will eventually find it necessary to further expand WDW due to neighboring competition. And I mean much more substantially than the Fantasyland expansion. It could take a long long time, and current leadership hardly fills one with confidence. But the competition in Orlando is undoubtedly heating up and according to insiders here, Disney is well aware and concerned about it.

This necessity may extend out west to Disneyland since Universal is building Potterland at their California park as well. I've not yet had the privilege to visit Universal but it's good to have healthy competition regardless of how you feel about it. Whether you like Uni, don't like it, or have never been. Whatever gets Disney to put effort in trying to maintain their guests is good in my book.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think regardless of what some Disney lovers here might not wish to believe, the Disney company (whether current or future leadership) will eventually find it necessary to further expand WDW due to neighboring competition. And I mean much more substantially than the Fantasyland expansion. It could take a long long time, and current leadership hardly fills one with confidence. But the competition in Orlando is undoubtedly heating up and according to insiders here, Disney is well aware and concerned about it.

This necessity may extend out west to Disneyland since Universal is building Potterland at their California park as well. I've not yet had the privilege to visit Universal but it's good to have healthy competition regardless of how you feel about it. Whether you like Uni, don't like it, or have never been. Whatever gets Disney to put effort in trying to maintain their guests is good in my book.

I definitely agree. WDW will respond, I believe. It's just a matter of when.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I never play favorites with Disney parks. Especially nostalgia being involved. The age, being the original, whatever, none of that is relevant as to what make a park better. In some communities, many rivalry arguments among park preferences become arrogant, spiteful, and downright unpleasant. It can warp into an ego thing, thinking that something being first makes it inherently better. It's forgotten too often that what makes a Disney park special is objective quality, not nostalgia or something being the first or original. If something happens to be old AND has an advantage over something else (like the objective reasons that a fair amount of Disneyland is better than MK), then sure it wins. But the nostalgia for me has no relevance in why it's better. It's why despite my nostalgia for Magic Kingdom, I visited Disneyland Paris much later and considered it a better park than MK. It's also why Epcot Center was such an absolutely wonderful park, even though Walt Disney himself didn't have a hand in it and the end result was nothing like he envisioned.

Regarding nostalgia, it goes further than that for Disneyland guests. It's the simple fact that Disneyland has a unique connection to Walt Disney, which is why many people prefer it. Not only nostalgia, but they feel a connection to Walt Disney. That's why Disneyland fans are so crazy; they want things to be perfect at DL because Walt Disney built it, and they love Walt Disney.

 

[wolf359]

These kinds of things go in cycles, and it is easy to cherry pick a particular time in which one park (or coast, or country) was getting more attention.

The 70s were a very slow decade at Disneyland, because nearly all of the attention was focused on getting Walt Disney World off the ground. What DID come to Disneyland during that time were almost all clones of Magic Kingdom originals. The 80s saw some additions but this was a decade of "out with the old" in order to make room for the new. And when compared to getting the entire EPCOT Center Disneyland's additions seemed pretty modest and two of their biggest draws, Star Tours and Splash Mountain, didn't hit until the tail end of the decade, while WDW got a third entire theme park...

While I'll admit that today it seems like Disneyland can do no wrong and gets "all the cool new stuff" they still have only three hotels and two theme parks. Any new attractions, additions, or changes are going to stick out more just because they're being built on top of one another, while everything at WDW is so spread out it tends to dilute the impact of those changes.

 

[Matt7187]

Just wait until around around 2015. All of the DL people will be jealous of us again when the cycle turns! but I also love Disneyland, but it is just easier for me to get to Florida than California, so I always will want the best to be coming to wdw instead!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I found this one article on Passport 2 Dreams: http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2012/02/on-integrity.html. Herein, the author laments about how Disneyland has become favored as THE Disney park for the company, at the expense of WDW and its Magic Kingdom, and how Disneyland has impacted the Florida park, and not for the better in the author's opinion.

As a serious Disneyland fan who has visited that park far more often than the Florida resort, I have to admit I'm tickled by the notion of the company supposedly showing favoritism for the California park.

What are your thoughts?

The probem is not so much one of favouritism. The problem is a lack of understanding, and appreciation, of WDW as a unique entity. An entity that was founded by Walt, build by Roy, nearly as old as DL.

The first twenty years of the Florida project, roughly 1963 to 1984, the focus of first Walt and then TWDC was on WDW. After that, it was ever felt more clearly that the center of TWDC is still in SoCal. Where once WDW received the better versions of rides, and DL had to shoehorn in concepts designed for WDW, this changed. I blame Eisner - my default position when I lack true understanding!
DL's influence, the Westcoast being the focus of TWDC's creative energy again, is detrimental to WDW. I agree with Foxx. But then, I always do.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Just wait until around around 2015. All of the DL people will be jealous of us again when the cycle turns! but I also love Disneyland, but it is just easier for me to get to Florida than California, so I always will want the best to be coming to wdw instead!

2015 is the 60th anniversary, LOL.