No benefits for DVC resale?

[lostpro9het]

Bingo. The direct sale prices have gotten to a point where there is no value in the purchase.

But there is still value in it, now it just takes a little longer to see a return on it. The main sales pitch the agents are using isn't 10% discounts here and special events there, it's LOOK, if you plan on going to disney every year, other year, or third year then you can break even in 10 years time or less depending on travel habbits. This is still true thanks to Disney's outrageous rack rates. They even use the the Poly's once upon a time $72/night rate and compare that to the current $500+/night to say hey, look, disney rack rates will only go up and who knows by how much! IMO, disney is running out of folks that want to vist that frequently.
I can't believe I'm defending DVD right now.

Edit: worth pointing out I'm a resale owner.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

But there is still value in it, now it just takes a little longer to see a return on it. The main sales pitch the agents are using isn't 10% discounts here and special events there, it's LOOK, if you plan on going to disney every year, other year, or third year then you can break even in 10 years time or less depending on travel habbits. This is still true thanks to Disney's outrageous rack rates. They even use the the Poly's once upon a time $72/night rate and compare that to the current $500+/night to say hey, look, disney rack rates will only go up and who knows by how much! IMO, disney is running out of folks that want to vist that frequently.
I can't believe I'm defending DVD right now.

Edit: worth pointing out I'm a resale owner.

We still see the value in it, though we purchased all of our current points direct many moons ago. We will be doing a small add-on in the future to even out our points for our 2 kids, and that will be direct as well so that there are no restrictions for either of them. Since we are grandfathered in, any future purchases may be resale, but we'll decide that later.

And for someone that wants to buy in at VGF, the resale really doesn't save enough to justify going that route. Neither does someone wishing to own at Poly. For a few others, people will have to decide if the resale savings are enough to not care about losing the discounts. Personal choice it is.

 

[WWWD]

It would be interesting to know what DVC forecasted as the percentage of owners who sell their points after varying years and what the real numbers are. In the beginning, did DVC think that FROR would greatly minimize a resale market?

 

[Biff215]

No, they don't concern me in the least. We didn't buy in to DVC for the "perks". We bought to save money on our resort costs for the next 40 years. Since we also buy APs every year, we would still have access to the TiW, and even with the price increase that would happen if we lose the AP perk, it would still be worth it to us. As far as discounts go, well, again, we buy APs every year, so would still receive those discounts as well, and the TiW saves us more than the DVC discount at restaurants anyway. I cannot even remember the last time we used the DVC card for any discount other than our APs.

The other perks of special member nights at MK and such, well, we aren't traveling there at that time anyway so can't go to those. Would it be nice? Sure, but it's not a deal breaker by any means. Those are really geared more towards the local DVC crowd than the multiple trips per year crowd like us. And since they are part of the 25th anniversary celebration, we doubt that they will continue in the future.

Might it affect resale values? Maybe. Only time will tell, but again I couldn't care less. We will never sell our points, and our kids all love Disney and will continue to use them after we are gone. If you read some of the posters on these forums, they would have you believe that WDW is nothing but a cesspool of old stuff that has no value to them anymore. Well, that's their opinion, and they are certainly entitled to it, but it isn't ours. We go multiple times per year, have made over 20 trips in the last decade, and we still find new things to see and try every single trip. The value is still there for us.

And while we are not ignoring the changes, there is absolutely nothing that anyone on these forums can do to change Disney's mind on what they are going to do with our membership.

Fair enough. To be honest, I agree with you on most of this. I have a young family and we have gone twice a year for 15+ years, mostly thanks to DVC in the past 10. And I'm not a doom-and-gloomer, as we are yet to have a disappointing vacation. We have no plans to sell our points either.

I guess I'm just concerned about where I fear DVC and Disney in general are heading. This is a rather minor change that doesn't directly affect me, however there have been a string of price increases and cuts recently. If it should get worse, then I truly fear what the future holds. I genuinely hope I'm 100% wrong.

 

[Biff215]

Actually it is very easy.They obviously can't do it with current contracts but they can surely do it going forward on new contracts if they choose.

Wouldn't exactly help them sell direct though, would it? Might actually make resale more attractive.

 

[NormC]

Wouldn't exactly help them sell direct though, would it? Might actually make resale more attractive.

The point I was making is that it would prevent resale of all new contracts.If you don't own it you cannot sell it.

 

[Ralphlaw]

What are points going for right now buying direct for the Boardwalk? They're about $100 per point at Timeshare Store. Comparing the two may answer loads of questions.

 

[LSUxStitch]

I may be stupid here, but aren't resale points the price they are because of how much time is left on the contract? It's less because there are less years?

I see people saying that resale buyers shouldn't get the same perks because they are buying cheaper, but in reality they're buying the same thing, but with less years than you. It's cheaper, but you've enjoyed your points for longer than the resale buyers will be.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

What are points going for right now buying direct for the Boardwalk? They're about $100 per point at Timeshare Store. Comparing the two may answer loads of questions.

Here is the current breakdown that I did the other day:

Please remember that these are AVERAGES.. There are contracts available for less, and for more.
There are no resorts that you can save even 50% on, but a few are close. Poly and VGF save you the least, but that is to be expected. The best deal right now is AKL of all places.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Amazing! Given the discount by buying resale, I truly wonder why anyone would buy direct. I also wonder why Disney feels as though they're being victimized in some way by the resalers. The only true victims are the uninformed buyers who are willing to thousands of dollars extra for the exact same points, albeit minus a few incidentals.

 

[Biff215]

The point I was making is that it would prevent resale of all new contracts.If you don't own it you cannot sell it.

I understand your point, I just think that would work against what DVC is trying to do, and that is making a direct purchase more attractive.

I wouldn't be totally surprised to see a change at future resorts that will prevent resale in some way. But here's another question...could DVC afford to take back ownership of all points being forfeited by their owners? If they could, then why wouldn't they just buy every resale? They seem to think they're all worth $160/point still even though some are halfway through their contract already!

 

[toolsnspools]

I found that I get many of the same discounts with my AP, and if I'm vacationing at WDW I have to buy an AP to make it worth going to the parks anyway. Now the AP discount they gave us a couple years ago was nice, but I don't see that happening again anytime soon.

 

[Biff215]

I found that I get many of the same discounts with my AP, and if I'm vacationing at WDW I have to buy an AP to make it worth going to the parks anyway. Now the AP discount they gave us a couple years ago was nice, but I don't see that happening again anytime soon.

Problem is the discount for the AP for new resale buyers is gone. $400/year for a family of four is significant over the life of a contract. Probably not enough to justify a direct purchase at DVC's crazy prices though. Thankful I bought a decade ago, but feel bad for those being affected by this change.

 

[Phonedave]

I may be stupid here, but aren't resale points the price they are because of how much time is left on the contract? It's less because there are less years?

I see people saying that resale buyers shouldn't get the same perks because they are buying cheaper, but in reality they're buying the same thing, but with less years than you. It's cheaper, but you've enjoyed your points for longer than the resale buyers will be.

All contracts at a given property expire at the same time, regardless of how or when you bought them.

The slight exception to this is OKW, where members were offered a 15 (I believe) year extension to their contracts, so some contracts expire 2042 and some expire 2057. I believe that if Disney sells you one directly, they use the 2057 date.

-dave

 

[ToTBellHop]

All contracts at a given property expire at the same time, regardless of how or when you bought them.

The slight exception to this is OKW, where members were offered a 15 (I believe) year extension to their contracts, so some contracts expire 2042 and some expire 2057. I believe that if Disney sells you one directly, they use the 2057 date.

-dave

I wonder why it is that the have not offered this extension anywhere else yet. Did it go over poorly at OKW? I should think Disney would rather lock us in for as long as possible but perhaps not.

Personally, I'm happy to have a 2042 expiration. I can't honestly commit to wanting something for the next 50 years other than a beating heart.

 

[Phonedave]

I wonder why it is that the have not offered this extension anywhere else yet. Did it go over poorly at OKW? I should think Disney would rather lock us in for as long as possible but perhaps not.

Personally, I'm happy to have a 2042 expiration. I can't honestly commit to wanting something for the next 50 years other than a beating heart.

Who know's what the long range plans are for DVC? Maybe they want to convert the rooms back to cash rooms. Espeically are co-resort locations, such as Beach Club, Poly, etc. They basically espanded those resorts, get people (like us) to pay for it, and then get the property with improvements back at the contract end.

Other places like SSR and OKW are an other deal - not sure what they want to do with those. BW, while a stand along, could easily become a "regular" WDW resort property, with it's prime location.

-dave

 

[Biff215]

Who know's what the long range plans are for DVC? Maybe they want to convert the rooms back to cash rooms. Espeically are co-resort locations, such as Beach Club, Poly, etc. They basically espanded those resorts, get people (like us) to pay for it, and then get the property with improvements back at the contract end.

Other places like SSR and OKW are an other deal - not sure what they want to do with those. BW, while a stand along, could easily become a "regular" WDW resort property, with it's prime location.

-dave

I don't think the extension trial went as well as they had hoped. Not sure they really want to make them cash rooms, as that is the opposite of the recent trend. I feel it's more likely that as contracts end, that they will either level and rebuild or simply refresh them and then sell new 50 year contracts.

Once 2042 comes, DVC will simply start again as if it were 1991!

 

[Unomas]

Amazing! Given the discount by buying resale, I truly wonder why anyone would buy direct. I also wonder why Disney feels as though they're being victimized in some way by the resalers. The only true victims are the uninformed buyers who are willing to thousands of dollars extra for the exact same points, albeit minus a few incidentals.

Victim here. We bought direct last summer and I was completely informed. I spent the better part of two months researching it. It came down to where we wanted to stay. And that was The Polynesian. Sure you can get the Poly on cheaper SSR points right now. But that is not guaranteed for the next 50 years. I was betting that when Poly sells out it will be quite a bit harder to book it in the 7 month window. Sure it costs more. But we got what we wanted.

 

[Ralphlaw]

When the DVC resort first opens, points are often far more reasonable. Our first contract was at Baylake Tower right after it opened. A few years later, we were able to sell our points through the Timeshare Store for a 20% profit. When a resort first opens, there are few of those points, if any, available on resale. But after a few years, those newer resort points pop up. Sometimes they're a bargain at that point, and sometimes they actually go up in value like our Baylake points did. The Poly points have one seller available for $160 per point on resale at the Timeshare Store right now. I don't know what you paid, but you might actually be able to make a profit right now if you wanted to sell.

We felt some urgency in selling our Baylake points for several reasons due in large part to the fact that Grand Floridian was about to open and rumors were flying that Polynesian villas were going to be built. Suddenly our exclusive DVC property by Magic Kingdom was going to have DVC neighbors. We also preferred the EPCOT area, and saw that 300 Boardwalk points could be had for just a few thousand dollars more than our 160 Baylake points could be sold for. Yeah, our maintenance fees doubled, but we're far happier.

Bottom line: For new resorts, buying direct can make good sense at many levels. I doubt if you're a victim.

 

[Biff215]

When the DVC resort first opens, points are often far more reasonable. Our first contract was at Baylake Tower right after it opened. A few years later, we were able to sell our points through the Timeshare Store for a 20% profit. When a resort first opens, there are few of those points, if any, available on resale. But after a few years, those newer resort points pop up. Sometimes they're a bargain at that point, and sometimes they actually go up in value like our Baylake points did. The Poly points have one seller available for $160 per point on resale at the Timeshare Store right now. I don't know what you paid, but you might actually be able to make a profit right now if you wanted to sell.

We felt some urgency in selling our Baylake points for several reasons due in large part to the fact that Grand Floridian was about to open and rumors were flying that Polynesian villas were going to be built. Suddenly our exclusive DVC property by Magic Kingdom was going to have DVC neighbors. We also preferred the EPCOT area, and saw that 300 Boardwalk points could be had for just a few thousand dollars more than our 160 Baylake points could be sold for. Yeah, our maintenance fees doubled, but we're far happier.

Bottom line: For new resorts, buying direct can make good sense at many levels. I doubt if you're a victim.

I think the "victim" part was sarcastic, they seem happy with their decision to buy direct at the Poly. And while I wouldn't even think about buying direct right now, they did give solid reasons for why someone would spend that kind of money. We were fortunate to get a studio at the Poly last summer inside seven months, but we also knew this could be a rare opportunity as DVC sells more points there. If you can't live without staying at a specific resort then it's always best to own there, provided you can plan 7-11 months in advance.