NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear

[JT3000]

They'll still offer APs but fewer people will want them. And they want fewer APs. DDP shut locals out of restaurants and FP+ will shut us out of attractions unless we're willing to hyper plan. That's not how APers want to visit the parks. Without spontaneity, the desire to visit WDW wanes quickly, especially if all we're left with is table scraps.

Look for DisCo to continue to raise prices and reduce discounts for APers. And look for APers to actively take their leisure time and money elsewhere. Because that's exactly what's going to happen.

For locals, the problem with WDW is that it was never a very spontaneous destination to begin with. Thanks to its relative isolation, it's more difficult to travel there than other area parks, especially MK, with its lack of parking lot outside the gates. You're wasting more of your time just getting there compared to Universal or SeaWorld, which most locals live closer to. (Partially) because of this, I rarely hear anyone say, "Hey, let's go to Disney today." It's usually planned at least a day ahead. Disney probably thinks it won't make much of a difference if we require a more carefully structured day once in the parks. They really never intended to appeal to locals, even from the very beginning.

I'm sure I don't even have to mention the ease of park hopping at Universal compared to WDW.

Then there's the AP, which I personally haven't had in years because it's already so ungodly expensive.

 

[MichWolv]

That's not what I said, they run a company differently. Better or worst depends but they look more towards debit and credits.

Understanding the numbers doesn't mean CPAs look only (or more) to them. And as a consumer, I'd rather the company be run based on debits and credits than stock price (although as an investor, it's the other way around).

 

[Virtual Toad]

For locals, the problem with WDW is that it was never a very spontaneous destination to begin with. Thanks to its relative isolation, it's more difficult to travel there than other area parks, especially MK, with its lack of parking lot outside the gates. You're wasting more of your time just getting there compared to Universal or SeaWorld, which most locals live closer to. (Partially) because of this, I rarely hear anyone say, "Hey, let's go to Disney today." It's usually planned at least a day ahead. Disney probably thinks it won't make much of a difference if we require a more carefully structured day once in the parks. They really never intended to appeal to locals, even from the very beginning.

I'm sure I don't even have to mention the ease of park hopping at Universal compared to WDW.

Then there's the AP, which I personally haven't had in years because it's already so ungodly expensive.

I guess that's kind of the point. Going to WDW was always a journey thanks to the way the resort was laid out. But the hassle used to be worth it because what was waiting for you was unique, mind-blowing, top notch. An adventure worth the journey.

These days, not so much. And NextGen is about to add another layer of unnecessary hassle to an increasingly mediocre experience.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I've heard this stated a million times, but I don't believe the data alone justifies an $2 billion initiative. There is much more to this than that.

IMO, they are hoping to eliminate the discounts on food and merchandise and replace them with things that don't cost Disney anything at all – a "VIP experience" with FP+, better parade and fireworks viewing, and personal character interactions. It wouldn't take too long to recoup the $2 billion if food and merchandise discounts can be eliminated.

Sure there is much more to NextGen than data mining. Below is my theory (updated from another thread) on how Next Gen improves WDW financials:

• Improve hotel occupancy rates – There's only a finite number of "good" FP+ for (for example) TSM. Use these "good" FP+ to lure guests onsite. Tie in ADRs to FP+. Either set aside some prime ADRs for onsite guests or allow onsite guests to book their FP+ or ADRs sooner. As a result of these initiatives, WDW hotel occupancy rates should improve. Filling unoccupied rooms in existing hotels has a tremendous profit margin.
• Eliminate Extra Magic Hours – EMHs are an enormous operating expense. Considerable money could be saved by getting rid of these. With a FP+ system giving preferential treatment to onsite guests during regular park hours, EMHs are no longer needed. Huge savings for WDW.
• Improve theme park attendance - It seems possible more onsite guests will visit WDW theme parks for more days during their vacations, knowing they have FP+ experiences reserved for each day. How are guests going to be able to walk away from visiting the theme parks when they know they already have "good" FP+ in hand?
• Reduce or eliminate "Free Dining" and "Room Only" discounts - Bob Iger has stated that the public needs to be weaned off “Free Dining” and “Room Only” discounts. A perks system built around Next Gen might be a way to do this. Onsite guests get more FP+, better ADRs, and preferred viewing. As a result, WDW no longer needs to offer as many discounts if guests have stronger incentives to stay onsite, especially since these incentives require minimal opex. Possibly offer "bonus" FP+ during slower seasons as a way to increase onsite and/or offsite attendance, effectively replacing "Free Dining" and "Room Only" discounts.
• Increase guest spending - Spend $200 at the Emporium; get rewarded with a "bonus" FP+. Book a Keys To the Kingdom Tour; get a "bonus" FP+. The possibilities are endless. FP+ is "free" but it's "more free" for those who spend more. And it's possible because Next Gen is an integrated system, unifying guest spending with more traditional WDW "experiences". Disney can use FP+ as a sort of Pavlov's Dog experiment to produce the behavior they want (i.e. more spending).
• Price increases – Of course. Just like they did when they switched to the Magic Your Way ticket system, WDW almost certainly has plans to repackage some things and then charge more for essentially the same service.

None of these have to do with hoping guests spend more money with all their "free time" (something that didn't work with FP), using the data mined information for targeted advertising (although this will happen), or expecting improved operational efficiency (which should occur). Instead, if it works, this gets consumers to spend more before they arrive, encourages them to spend more after they arrive, and reduces cost in obvious ways.

The beauty of the FP+/NextGen system is that its benefits can be tweaked by changing a few input variables. Not enough guests staying at Deluxe Resorts? Increase their number of FP+ while reducing the numbers allocated to everyone else. Tweaking this model is essentially free, which means TDO can experiment with all sorts of combinations before settling on one that generates the most revenue.

By adding attractions, dining, viewing areas, and meet & greets to FP+, TDO has taken absolute control over everyone's WDW experience.

 

[Beholder]

I guess this is one of those wait and see things. I'm one of those people who is more "hands on". Telling me how something works is much less effective than me actually doing it. That being said, I tend to feel a little put off by the idea of so much reserve in advance kind of stuff. I realize I can "opt out", but if that means a experience less of the "magic", then bleh. Ultimately though, I'll just find out for myself at some point.

If someone else has asked this, I apologize, but would/could these "bracelets" be used to help find/identify lost children within the parks? If so, then THAT aspect sounds great.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I will, just as I had fun on my 1st trip on the Little Mermaid ride on my current trip. I will also no doubt have fun on my 1st ride on the 7 dwarfs coaster next year.

I'm glad for you. And I may take advantage of the 4 free passes per year I get through work to check out the 7DMT in 2014. My 2013 free passes, who knows. Trying to talk my 2 teenage daughters into going to Disney when they could be at Universal is rather difficult.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I have a question, is their anyplace on the MyMagic+ App where I can check the balance of what has been charged to the credit card associated with my families MagicBands+? Or do I just have to wait until the end of the vacation when they slip the heart attack inducing grand total under my hotel room door at the end of my vacation?

 

[GrumpyFan]

I have a question, is their anyplace on the MyMagic+ App where I can check the balance of what has been charged to the credit card associated with my families MagicBands+? Or do I just have to wait until the end of the vacation when they slip the heart attack inducing grand total under my hotel room door at the end of my vacation?

That would be a nice feature, hopefully so!

 

[TP2000]

Funny comments from Al Lutz this morning, especially regarding Tom Staggs and his glowing reports on this new program....

That said, and as nice of a guy as Staggs seems to be, it appears very disingenuous of Tom to appear on the Disney Parks Blog touting the trip planning abilities of the NextGen project when his own family park visits are, um… well, radically different.

For instance, last week Staggs’ entire family of young sons and nieces and relatives were at Disneyland for two days and were continually escorted by both a VIP Tour Guide and an executive handler who ushered them through the exits of whichever attractions or shows they chose whenever they wanted. Name or face recognition can’t be the security excuse for keeping the unknown kids and in-laws of the Chairman away from the crowds and out of lines, and Tom wasn’t even with them for much of their visit.

If visiting the parks is as easy and carefree as Tom Staggs makes it out to be in his blog posts, perhaps he’d like to volunteer his own family to give up on the special VIP treatment just once? Maybe for the next Staggs family visit they could get there early, actually plan out pulling a few Fastpasses for Racers and those Mountain rides his sons enjoy, and then wait in the regular lines at the lesser attractions? It’s probably too much to ask of a senior leader at Disney to actually use the product like their customers are expected to (and after paying an arm and a leg for it), but at least Tom shows up in Anaheim a few times per year. Next time the guy gives a glowing status report on the various NextGen offerings, remember how well he and his extended family are treated at the parks.

http://micechat.com/19433-bibbidi-bobbidi-barcode/

HA! Leave it to Lutz to nail it.

I went back and re-read the Staggs blog at Disney Parks Blog, and it does read quite differently when you realize he just whisked his entire family around Disneyland Resort for Christmas with a VIP Guide and his kids never had to wait in one line, much less plan out a single Fastpass return time.

Try living like a mere mortal Mr. Staggs, and then we'll listen to you.

 

[WDWBryan]

Wish you could added a Disney gift card to your account. would be great because then you could keep track of it. But I guess they only want open ended cards and not anything that has a pre-paid balance on it

 

[StepInTime]

Parentsof4 said:
By adding attractions, dining, viewing areas, and meet & greets to FP+, TDO has taken absolute control over everyone's WDW experience.[/quote]

The most offensive thing to me in this list is the control they are exerting over parade and fireworks viewing areas. For the last 41 years, admission to the parks included the ability to enjoy the open spaces of the parks without any aditional fee. Even in the years of ticket books there was never any additional cost/media needed to enjoy the park entertainment from any guest area within the park. Now there are areas that are "off limits" to me unless I use one of my FastPass+ allotments; and with only three per day this undoubtedly means that I will now have to forgo an E-ticket FastPass if I care to enjoy the fireworks from a decent location and two if I dare to enjoy the parade and fireworks from an area not obstructed by trees and other large objects. Of course, I am sure over time, I will be able to plus the + for an additional fee and secure additional FastPasses; all magic is available if one is willing to pay the price. (cue Ursula singing "Poor Unfortunate Souls"). So from where I stand, it seems to me that the value of my admission to the parks has taken a hit. The only thing that is readily available with admission is the opportunity to shop and maybe enjoy a counter service meal or snack; or in another words, I can pay for the opportunity to pay some more. Everything else now has an additional requirement for maximum enjoyment. All this from a system that in Tom Staggs words promises " a more immersive,more seamless and more personal experience for EACH and EVERY guest who spends time with us." Um, ok, I'll let you know how that goes when I'm enjoying Wishes from the parking lot because I failed to secure a premium viewing location 6 months before my trip.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Parentsof4 said:
By adding attractions, dining, viewing areas, and meet & greets to FP+, TDO has taken absolute control over everyone's WDW experience.

The most offensive thing to me in this list is the control they are exerting over parade and fireworks viewing areas. For the last 41 years admission to the parks included the ability to enjoy the open spaces of the parks without any aditional fee. Even in the years of ticket books there was never any additional cost/media needed to enjoy the park entertainment from any guest area within the park. Now there are areas that are "off limits" to me unless I use one of my FastPass+ allotments; and with only three per day this undoubtedly means that I will now have to forgo an E-ticket FastPass if I care to enjoy the fireworks from a decent location and two if I dare to enjoy the parade and fireworks from an area not obstructed by trees and other large objects. Of course I am sure over time I will be able to plus the + for an additional fee and secure additional FastPasses; all magic is available if one is willing to pay the price. (cue Ursula singing "Poor Unfortunate Souls"). So from where I stand, it seems to me that the value of my admission to the parks has taken a hit. The only thing that is readily available with admission is the opportunity to shop and maybe enjoy a counter service meal or snack; or in another words I can pay for the opportunity to pay some more. Everything else now has an additional requirement for maximum enjoyment. All this from a system that in Tom Staggs words promises " a more immersive,more seamless and more personal experience for EACH and EVERY guest who spends time with us." Um ok, I'll let you know how that goes when I'm enjoying Wishes from the parking lot because I failed to secure a premium viewing location 6 months before my trip.

Wow, "absolute control", really? Seems a bit extreme and overly reactive.

I've only been visiting the parks for the last 13 years, so I don't have 41 years experience, but in the years I have been, I've seen roped off areas reserved for special guests nearly every trip. I've heard these are people in a party from a conference or some other special event, where the host paid for this special privilege. I've even visited WDW at times when one of the parks closed early to host a special event for a select group, and I've been in one of those groups that had exclusive park access. So, your words really strike me as extreme. These kinds of things have been happening for quite a while, yet even though they reserve special areas and even the parks for special events, they still offer alternatives to the average guest. Sure, it's not premium or preferred access maybe, but the point is that the parks are rarely closed off to everybody, as you seem to imply.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Wish you could added a Disney gift card to your account. would be great because then you could keep track of it. But I guess they only want open ended cards and not anything that has a pre-paid balance on it

If it works like the current Key to the World where they allow you to spend using your room key/pass, I don't see why they wouldn't. In some of our past trips, we specified a daily spending limit on our cards, then just paid them off using cash at the end of the day/trip. I would imagine you could do the same and then use a Disney gift card to pay off the balance. Keep in mind though, the stores and restaurants will still need to have credit card machines as there will be some who still want to pay this way, so you could just as easily carry the gift card into the parks.

 

[Tiggerish]

There might be a silver lining in all the data mining Next Gen generates.
The suits, and maligned "MBA's" might discover that a certain couple from CA with a DVC membership is "finally" back to WDW after 4 years. They tend to be high rollers when they dine out, but they only did it once. Their handcuffs were activated halfway through their stay at VWL, meaning they either stayed in their villa, or went someplace else in the first 4 days of their vacation. They were here for 7 days, but only bought a churro, and a cup of coffee in MK, a Mickey bar at DHS, a postcard at DAK, and a bag of chocolates at Ghiradelli in DTD. They bought a box of Cascade at the Mercantile at WL,so we know they are running the dishwasher, so why are they cooking in, and not getting the DDP?
They didn't buy any of the One Disney stuff. They also didn't prebook any fastpasses, and never used Fastpass at all, most likely as that all the Fastpasses were gone by the time they logged on with their Smartphones.
They got some charcoal at Fort Wilderness, so they might have used the grills at VWL, but we can't tell, as we don't sell meat in our gift shop/ grocery stores. Did they get steaks some where else?
Thank goodness they spent over $300.00 at Vic & Al's.
I highly doubt this type of guest behavior will ever get noticed.

If you substitute "NY" for "CA", and "1 year" instead of "4 years", you just described my upcoming Orlando vacation. Are you spying on me??

 

[ParentsOf4]

Wow, "absolute control", really? Seems a bit extreme and overly reactive.

Yes, Disney is taking absolute control. Right now, you control your vacation based on your ability to call in 6 months ahead to get your ADRs, get to the park for rope drop to get the FP you want and to get in line for the attractions you desire for the first hour (before crowds start to build), by picking your viewing spots, by finding the meet & greets. Onsite or offsite, rich or poor, every gets equal access. (Yes, I know about the very limited special tours. Overwhemingly, everything else is first-come, first-served.)

With NextGen, Disney takes this control away from you. You'll get the FP+ they decide to offer you (what, do you think all 46,600 daily guests are going to get a FP+ for Space Mountain?), you'll get the preferred viewing areas only if they let you, you'll get the ADRs they decide to release to you. (Get a load of this tidbit from the official Disney Park Experience Terms and Conditions: "A FastPass+ selection for dining at a FastPass+ designated table service or quick service location secures your arrival window and allows you to order meal prior to your arrival window. Each guest who has ordered ahead must have a FastPass+ selection for the same arrival time and location confirmed by the Site/App.") Initial testing shows that FP+ experiences were being scheduled from park opening to closing, so no "FP-free hour" like today. Get a FP+ or stand in line for an hour.

Who exactly is going to be offered the "good" FP+ experiences? The person staying offsite? The local coming in for a day trip? How about the person dropping $600/night to stay at the Grand Floridian?

FP+ represents the end of Disney's egalitarian system within the theme parks. Walt Disney did not want it this way. As Walt said:

The idea of Disneyland is a simple one. It will be a place for people to find happiness and knowledge.

It will be a place for parents and children to share pleasant times in one another's company: a place for teachers and pupils to discover greater ways of understanding and education. Here the older generation can recapture the nostalgia of days gone by, and the younger generation can savior the challenge of the future. Here will be the wonders of Nature and Man for all to see and understand.

Walt did not create his theme parks for the rich. Walt's dream dies with NextGen.

 

[flynnibus]

I have a question, is their anyplace on the MyMagic+ App where I can check the balance of what has been charged to the credit card associated with my families MagicBands+? Or do I just have to wait until the end of the vacation when they slip the heart attack inducing grand total under my hotel room door at the end of my vacation?

Well you can check your balance any time you want at the front desk - you don't have to wait till the end of the trip.

But sounds like a nice addition they could add in the future.. or even push notifications on new charges being added (say you wanted to keep tabs on your kids spending..)

 

[SirLink]

@ParentsOf4 Apart from the last bit about Walt I agree with the rest.

 

[StepInTime]

Wow, "absolute control", really? Seems a bit extreme and overly reactive.

I've only been visiting the parks for the last 13 years, so I don't have 41 years experience, but in the years I have been, I've seen roped off areas reserved for special guests nearly every trip. I've heard these are people in a party from a conference or some other special event, where the host paid for this special privilege. I've even visited WDW at times when one of the parks closed early to host a special event for a select group, and I've been in one of those groups that had exclusive park access. So, your words really strike me as extreme. These kinds of things have been happening for quite a while, yet even though they reserve special areas and even the parks for special events, they still offer alternatives to the average guest. Sure, it's not premium or preferred access maybe, but the point is that the parks are rarely closed off to everybody, as you seem to imply.

I did not use the term "absolute contol". That was a quote I quoted from another poster; I then went on to state what part of that quote caused me the most pause; the limitation of parade/fireworks viewing. I too have seen areas roped off for private viewing; most of these have been at Epcot, and some of these areas have been built for just this purpose so they were not taking away previouly available spaces that were once open to the average daily guest. (On a side note, there are very few places around the World Showcase lagoon that do not offer good views of Illuminations, even without special access you can have a "premium" view. One could argue that the MK fireworks have a unique look to them when viewed from in front of the castle, and that it is a completely different experience from other vantage points; which is why that area is receiving the FastPass+ option.) At the Magic Kingdom, in my 20 years of experience with that park, I have only seen the Wishes dessert area roped off; and that again is an area that would not typically be open to the average guest. As for early closings, they are clearly stated, sometimes months in advance, so that I can plan accordingly to get the most value for my vacation dollar. If I want to have a later night at the MK, I will not use a day of my ticket on an early close park day. I have options.

The difference with this is that this will be the new "normal." This is not one early close day out of the week/month. This isn't someone paying for exclusive park access after regular park hours. This will be everyday operating procedure. They are taking areas that were once available to anyone that purchased park admission during regular parks hours and limiting them to a smaller subset of people who are using an additional "ticket" to gain entry. That is a loss of value. I am no longer able to receive the same access I once enjoyed, and I am paying the same amount of money for my ticket. Thats not being extreme, its just stating the reality of the situation as the company is now explaining it.

I am not sure where you felt I said that the parks were closed off to everyone? If it was in response to my comment of viewing the fireworks from the parking lot, that was actually an experience I had this past March. Disney was testing prefered viewing for fireworks. It was a high volume spring break day, and they had randomly given out tickets to the area throughout the day. Long story short, it became mass chaos around the hub and down main street as people were informed they could not stand anywhere they pleased. The people without tickets were pushed further and further down Main Street until we were in an area that no longer had a clear view of the fireworks. Unable to make our way back up MSUSA to get to another area of the park, we headed for the turnstiles and viewed the show from the TTC. Not so magical.

 

[woody98]

I think a big part of the underlying plan here is to get rid of the notion of cash/credit cards in the parks, hoping that if the guest doesn't actually have to pull out their wallet they will spend more. I mean, think about it, we associate pulling out our wallet or purse with spending money, so we tend to lock them up and refrain from pulling them out. The concept of the "Key to the World", where guests could link their room key/pass to their credit card was a step toward this, but it still involved the guest pulling it out of their pocket/wallet. Now, with the RFID band, the process is much simpler, they just have to hold it up to the scanner, and that association with pulling out your wallet doesn't hit you, that is until you see your next credit card bill.

How can anyone think about taking their wallet into the parks?? It could be stolen along with their identity...better put that braclet on to be safe.

 

[pjammer]

The two areas being used for wishes are areas that were not options to Guest before. They are using the Rose Garden lawn and the terrace landing. Rose garden lawn has never been an option and terrace landing has always been roped off for special firework viewing.