News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

CanadianGordon

Well-Known Member
Okay with some of the people in here who can't bloody read and only seem to exist to doom and gloom or ask questions that are answered on like page one, can you please go away?
Some of us HAVE read the 236 pages and would like to have a proper discussion.

I'm really excited by this. Loving it more and more. If I could get over my vertigo to ride Disney rides, I can get over this.
 

Magicart87

No Refunds!
Premium Member
There are bars shown on the ends, but they are also show the character wraps which means there has to be glass there.
In that case it'll prob be circulated air thru passive ventilation from cabin ceiling and floor. There's really only three options. Enclosed with vents, open-space bars or AC. Bars would be more functional than small ventilation channels in the floor. Clearly AC would be best but I can't see them springing for that. I guess it's down to form vs function and which will win out.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
In that case it'll prob be circulated air thru passive ventilation from cabin ceiling and floor. There's really only three options. Enclosed with vents, open-space bars or AC. Bars would be more functional than small ventilation channels in the floor. Clearly AC would be best but I can't see them springing for that. I guess it's down to form vs function and which will win out.

It's vents.
 

Debbie

Well-Known Member
bf7bf4b64495c9f4f9c7efaafc641345.jpg
 

Beacon Joe

Well-Known Member
First post, just decided to do some math out on this:
I've heard 8-10 people gondolas so I'll use 9 guests per gondola.
Approximate departure rate 30 seconds, gives us 18 guests/min or 1080 guests per hour (1 bus every 8 mins to each resort)

Looking at the resorts* serviced by room size:
Caribbean Beach Resort: 2112
Art of Animation: 1984
Pop Century: 2880
Total:6976 rooms

Assuming 90% occupancy (I've heard the number before) and 3 guests per room on average: 18835 guests in these three resorts. Now lets say 1/4** of those guests go to either DHS or EPCOT for the day gives us 4709 guests visiting either a park per day. If 1/4 of those stay for a night time show (ROE or F!) and leave immediately after... 2354 guests will be trying to get on the gondola system at one of the parks at one time. This will take 1 hours and 6 minutes to get the last guest on board.

*This does not include people that might take the gondolas from DHS instead of friendship boats from Beach club (865 rooms), Boardwalk Inn (910 rooms), Yacht club (630 rooms), Swan (758 rooms), and Dolphin (1509). Also does not include the new Riviera Resort.
**This is a low estimate because it assumes only 1/4 of guests will go to a park on a given day (many resort guests follow EMH).

P(X) = ( ( (lambda * t)^x ) / x! ) * e^(-lambda * t)

I think it's going to be fine throughput-wise.
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Assuming 90% occupancy (I've heard the number before) and 3 guests per room on average: 18835 guests in these three resorts. Now lets say 1/4** of those guests go to either DHS or EPCOT for the day gives us 4709 guests visiting either a park per day. If 1/4 of those stay for a night time show (ROE or F!) and leave immediately after... 2354 guests will be trying to get on the gondola system at one of the parks at one time. This will take 1 hours and 6 minutes to get the last guest on board.

*This does not include people that might take the gondolas from DHS instead of friendship boats from Beach club (865 rooms), Boardwalk Inn (910 rooms), Yacht club (630 rooms), Swan (758 rooms), and Dolphin (1509). Also does not include the new Riviera Resort.
**This is a low estimate because it assumes only 1/4 of guests will go to a park on a given day (many resort guests follow EMH).

So, these guests call each other to synchronize the time they head to the parks?
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I've heard 8-10 people gondolas so I'll use 9 guests per gondola.
Approximate departure rate 30 seconds, gives us 18 guests/min or 1080 guests per hour

8 per gondola. Launch every ~12 seconds.

PPH: 2,400 - 2,700
See...

From my update on Lift Blog:

I’m told Disney is working with Doppelmayr to achieve the highest possible throughput using 8-passenger cabins, not Omega 10s as rumored. While the current record is 4,500 pph at Sölden (https://liftblog.com/2016/06/09/soelden-announces-record-breaking-giggijochbahn/) capacity for the WDW gondolas could reach over 5,000 pphpd. Cabins will have wi-fi and ample passive ventilation.​

Again, my sincere thanks to @danlb_2000 and others who pieced this news together in February.
 

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for the correction on the hourly capacity (from many people). I actually have read all 237 of this thread, but I believe I was mixing up threads with my 30 seconds per dispatch (I think Martin said that about Rat/Battle/Falcon/Railroad or something else). Back onto a discussion (not A/C related), do we we have any additional info on wraps used? I know we have 90s and today Mickey/Minnie, Donald/Goofy, and the Hitchhiking Ghosts. Would the Avengers be allowed on these or does it go over Epcot or DHS airspace like the Epcot monorail?
 

cosmicgirl

Well-Known Member
The reasonable part of my brain is telling me to stay out of this discussion, especially as a newbie, but the wiseass part won so here we go.

1. I would much rather be stuck on a gondola without a/c but another type of ventilation than on one with a/c. The thing with moving enclosed spaces with a/c is that they often have no other source of ventilation because the operators want to avoid that passengers open windows with the a/c blasting at full power. It's a waste of energy. Having been stuck for hours on a high-speed train on a hot Summer day here in Europe we were wishing the damn thing didn't have a/c because in a loss of power situation there was zero ventilation. Windows could not be opened, doors could not be opened and people were passing out due to lack of fresh air. So I'll gladly take any type of ventilation which does not require power, or which can operate independently when the rest of the system is down. And to those of you who continue to whine about the lack of a/c I suggest you stay at a bus resort. More space for the rest of us.

2. I have predominantly stayed at high-volume value resorts, as well as CSR and CBR. Never have I seen more people arrive at a single bus stop at the same time than a gondola system could handle. In extreme cases there may be a short wait, yes, but the main difference between a gondola system and the buses is that there is a constant flow, so there would not be a 20-minute buildup of people waiting for a bus to arrive. As others have mentioned, ski resorts, much like WDW, deal with peak periods of people wanting to get up the mountain and these types of systems deal with that demand very well. Having been on the Peak2Peak in Whistler imo it is nothing short of awesome and I have the utmost confidence in Doppelmayr and Disney for this project. I can't wait for the gondolas to operate in WDW and if you don't like them, don't ride them. Plain and simple.

3. To @thomas998, the guy who talked about 2 gondolas coming in and only one going out: this is a non-issue as there will always be people exiting at the center point. There is only one scenario where I could see things slowing down, namely the CBR transfer point at park closing may involve a little bit of a wait for people going from DHS to PopArt.

Based on the number of rooms for each resort:
- PopArt 4864;
- CBR roughly 1800, assuming they demolished 312 rooms;
- DRR roughly 336 to end up with the nicely rounded number of 7000 rooms having access to the gondola;
the traffic mix would be roughly 70% PopArt, 25% CBR, and 5% DRR.

During a morning peak they can fill the gondolas to capacity at PopArt and as long as an average of roughly 43% of PopArt guests go to DHS there will always be enough capacity on the Epcot line to accommodate CBR and DRR guests going to Epcot, because they only represent 25+5=30% of the total number of rooms. So as long 30% out of PopArt's 70% share of the total number of rooms (=43%) go to DHS there is no issue, even in the extreme case where ALL of the guests at CBR and DRR would want to go to Epcot. The same is true if you switch the parks: let's say all of the guests at CBR and DRR want to go to DHS (unlikely), then it would be sufficient for 43% of PopArt's guests to go to Epcot for the DHS line not to jam up at CBR. For EMH mornings when everyone wants to go to the same park I could see them letting 1 out of 3 gondolas leave PopArt empty so CBR and DRR could flow in seamlessly.

During an evening peak they could fill to capacity at the Epcot station and by the time they reach CBR an average of 30% of the capacity would open up for the DHS-PopArt traffic to flow in. Assuming that all lines run at the same capacity (number of gondolas per minute) and that the Epcot to PopArt line is continuous (no transfer required, which is not a given) then the wait time to get from CBR to PopArt could theoretically become higher because only 1 out of 3 gondolas would be available. Again this is assuming that you don't have to transfer when going from Epcot to PopArt. If you do have to transfer then the wait time would even out between the ex-Epcot and the ex-DHS guests because they would feed into the same line. Theoretically, a wait time could indeed occur here because you would have a demand of 140% of your gondola capacity.

In practice the traffic mix will not be constant and not all people of CBR and DRR will want to visit the same park, nor will everyone want to leave at the same time. I believe that CMs will be instructed to let every xth cabin leave empty at the end stations if there is an expected buildup at CBR or DRR, much like spots are left open on the Railroad to accommodate guests at the next stations. They will probably have to finetune things during early operation to reach an optimal guest flow. For guests the waiting time should also be a lot more pleasant because it will be a moving line instead of a static one. I'd much rather wait in a moving line than to have to wait for a bus to show up for 20 minutes while standing still. From my pov this project is an absolute winner and I can't wait for the system to be operational!

Now I'm gonna go hide from a potential counterattack.
 

nickys

Premium Member
The reasonable part of my brain is telling me to stay out of this discussion, especially as a newbie, but the wiseass part won so here we go.

1. I would much rather be stuck on a gondola without a/c but another type of ventilation than on one with a/c. The thing with moving enclosed spaces with a/c is that they often have no other source of ventilation because the operators want to avoid that passengers open windows with the a/c blasting at full power. It's a waste of energy. Having been stuck for hours on a high-speed train on a hot Summer day here in Europe we were wishing the damn thing didn't have a/c because in a loss of power situation there was zero ventilation. Windows could not be opened, doors could not be opened and people were passing out due to lack of fresh air. So I'll gladly take any type of ventilation which does not require power, or which can operate independently when the rest of the system is down. And to those of you who continue to whine about the lack of a/c I suggest you stay at a bus resort. More space for the rest of us.

2. I have predominantly stayed at high-volume value resorts, as well as CSR and CBR. Never have I seen more people arrive at a single bus stop at the same time than a gondola system could handle. In extreme cases there may be a short wait, yes, but the main difference between a gondola system and the buses is that there is a constant flow, so there would not be a 20-minute buildup of people waiting for a bus to arrive. As others have mentioned, ski resorts, much like WDW, deal with peak periods of people wanting to get up the mountain and these types of systems deal with that demand very well. Having been on the Peak2Peak in Whistler imo it is nothing short of awesome and I have the utmost confidence in Doppelmayr and Disney for this project. I can't wait for the gondolas to operate in WDW and if you don't like them, don't ride them. Plain and simple.

3. To @thomas998, the guy who talked about 2 gondolas coming in and only one going out: this is a non-issue as there will always be people exiting at the center point. There is only one scenario where I could see things slowing down, namely the CBR transfer point at park closing may involve a little bit of a wait for people going from DHS to PopArt.

Based on the number of rooms for each resort:
- PopArt 4864;
- CBR roughly 1800, assuming they demolished 312 rooms;
- DRR roughly 336 to end up with the nicely rounded number of 7000 rooms having access to the gondola;
the traffic mix would be roughly 70% PopArt, 25% CBR, and 5% DRR.

During a morning peak they can fill the gondolas to capacity at PopArt and as long as an average of roughly 43% of PopArt guests go to DHS there will always be enough capacity on the Epcot line to accommodate CBR and DRR guests going to Epcot, because they only represent 25+5=30% of the total number of rooms. So as long 30% out of PopArt's 70% share of the total number of rooms (=43%) go to DHS there is no issue, even in the extreme case where ALL of the guests at CBR and DRR would want to go to Epcot. The same is true if you switch the parks: let's say all of the guests at CBR and DRR want to go to DHS (unlikely), then it would be sufficient for 43% of PopArt's guests to go to Epcot for the DHS line not to jam up at CBR. For EMH mornings when everyone wants to go to the same park I could see them letting 1 out of 3 gondolas leave PopArt empty so CBR and DRR could flow in seamlessly.

During an evening peak they could fill to capacity at the Epcot station and by the time they reach CBR an average of 30% of the capacity would open up for the DHS-PopArt traffic to flow in. Assuming that all lines run at the same capacity (number of gondolas per minute) and that the Epcot to PopArt line is continuous (no transfer required, which is not a given) then the wait time to get from CBR to PopArt could theoretically become higher because only 1 out of 3 gondolas would be available. Again this is assuming that you don't have to transfer when going from Epcot to PopArt. If you do have to transfer then the wait time would even out between the ex-Epcot and the ex-DHS guests because they would feed into the same line. Theoretically, a wait time could indeed occur here because you would have a demand of 140% of your gondola capacity.

In practice the traffic mix will not be constant and not all people of CBR and DRR will want to visit the same park, nor will everyone want to leave at the same time. I believe that CMs will be instructed to let every xth cabin leave empty at the end stations if there is an expected buildup at CBR or DRR, much like spots are left open on the Railroad to accommodate guests at the next stations. They will probably have to finetune things during early operation to reach an optimal guest flow. For guests the waiting time should also be a lot more pleasant because it will be a moving line instead of a static one. I'd much rather wait in a moving line than to have to wait for a bus to show up for 20 minutes while standing still. From my pov this project is an absolute winner and I can't wait for the system to be operational!

Now I'm gonna go hide from a potential counterattack.

As far as I understand it, CBR south is a transfer point for everyone. It is 3 lines, each operating to and from CBR South.

The only issue I see is for those at the Riviera Resort. I assume they will have communication to both IG and CBR South to control how many empty gondolas to send for the waiting guests. The numbers will depend on whether it's just Riviera guests or also those in the north side of CBR. My guess is it will be for both resorts.

But thanks for this. You explained it very well, imo. And welcome to the boards!
 

GCTales

Well-Known Member
The reasonable part of my brain is telling me to stay out of this discussion, especially as a newbie, but the wiseass part won so here we go.

Now I'm gonna go hide from a potential counterattack.

Well thought out and nicely written. Only point I would make has already been made..

Oh and welcome..
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
The reasonable part of my brain is telling me to stay out of this discussion, especially as a newbie, but the wiseass part won so here we go.

1. I would much rather be stuck on a gondola without a/c but another type of ventilation than on one with a/c. The thing with moving enclosed spaces with a/c is that they often have no other source of ventilation because the operators want to avoid that passengers open windows with the a/c blasting at full power. It's a waste of energy. Having been stuck for hours on a high-speed train on a hot Summer day here in Europe we were wishing the damn thing didn't have a/c because in a loss of power situation there was zero ventilation. Windows could not be opened, doors could not be opened and people were passing out due to lack of fresh air. So I'll gladly take any type of ventilation which does not require power, or which can operate independently when the rest of the system is down. And to those of you who continue to whine about the lack of a/c I suggest you stay at a bus resort. More space for the rest of us.

2. I have predominantly stayed at high-volume value resorts, as well as CSR and CBR. Never have I seen more people arrive at a single bus stop at the same time than a gondola system could handle. In extreme cases there may be a short wait, yes, but the main difference between a gondola system and the buses is that there is a constant flow, so there would not be a 20-minute buildup of people waiting for a bus to arrive. As others have mentioned, ski resorts, much like WDW, deal with peak periods of people wanting to get up the mountain and these types of systems deal with that demand very well. Having been on the Peak2Peak in Whistler imo it is nothing short of awesome and I have the utmost confidence in Doppelmayr and Disney for this project. I can't wait for the gondolas to operate in WDW and if you don't like them, don't ride them. Plain and simple.

3. To @thomas998, the guy who talked about 2 gondolas coming in and only one going out: this is a non-issue as there will always be people exiting at the center point. There is only one scenario where I could see things slowing down, namely the CBR transfer point at park closing may involve a little bit of a wait for people going from DHS to PopArt.

Based on the number of rooms for each resort:
- PopArt 4864;
- CBR roughly 1800, assuming they demolished 312 rooms;
- DRR roughly 336 to end up with the nicely rounded number of 7000 rooms having access to the gondola;
the traffic mix would be roughly 70% PopArt, 25% CBR, and 5% DRR.

During a morning peak they can fill the gondolas to capacity at PopArt and as long as an average of roughly 43% of PopArt guests go to DHS there will always be enough capacity on the Epcot line to accommodate CBR and DRR guests going to Epcot, because they only represent 25+5=30% of the total number of rooms. So as long 30% out of PopArt's 70% share of the total number of rooms (=43%) go to DHS there is no issue, even in the extreme case where ALL of the guests at CBR and DRR would want to go to Epcot. The same is true if you switch the parks: let's say all of the guests at CBR and DRR want to go to DHS (unlikely), then it would be sufficient for 43% of PopArt's guests to go to Epcot for the DHS line not to jam up at CBR. For EMH mornings when everyone wants to go to the same park I could see them letting 1 out of 3 gondolas leave PopArt empty so CBR and DRR could flow in seamlessly.

During an evening peak they could fill to capacity at the Epcot station and by the time they reach CBR an average of 30% of the capacity would open up for the DHS-PopArt traffic to flow in. Assuming that all lines run at the same capacity (number of gondolas per minute) and that the Epcot to PopArt line is continuous (no transfer required, which is not a given) then the wait time to get from CBR to PopArt could theoretically become higher because only 1 out of 3 gondolas would be available. Again this is assuming that you don't have to transfer when going from Epcot to PopArt. If you do have to transfer then the wait time would even out between the ex-Epcot and the ex-DHS guests because they would feed into the same line. Theoretically, a wait time could indeed occur here because you would have a demand of 140% of your gondola capacity.

In practice the traffic mix will not be constant and not all people of CBR and DRR will want to visit the same park, nor will everyone want to leave at the same time. I believe that CMs will be instructed to let every xth cabin leave empty at the end stations if there is an expected buildup at CBR or DRR, much like spots are left open on the Railroad to accommodate guests at the next stations. They will probably have to finetune things during early operation to reach an optimal guest flow. For guests the waiting time should also be a lot more pleasant because it will be a moving line instead of a static one. I'd much rather wait in a moving line than to have to wait for a bus to show up for 20 minutes while standing still. From my pov this project is an absolute winner and I can't wait for the system to be operational!

Now I'm gonna go hide from a potential counterattack.

Solid post. Welcome to the forums.
 

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