New Florida law addresses "fake" service animals with possible jail time

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
But they have to violate the Federal law to do it. I would argue that this simply allows businesses to have the police do their "dirty work" for them. The police are not going to be going into businesses and set up "road blocks" for service animals. It will entirely rely on a business calling the police. And in my opinion, in this situation the police are acting almost as de facto employees of the business and not as police. I don't see why Congress simply doesn't change the law to permit proof (i.e., some sort of specialised tag as opposed to paperwork).

As more and more people insist on bring their pet everywhere with them, resulting in confrontations between a stressed, frightened animal and a kid who ran up to the puppy to pet it and was attacked (and the resulting lawsuit against both the owner of the pet and the establishment), we will probably see changes to the law.

My niece was petting my Samoyed once. She's been around that dog for years. My dog turned and snapped at my niece. I was shocked. We(family)/I have owned 4 of these dogs. And if a breed of dog known to be one of the best around humans, especially kids, and a dog who knew the person petting her reacted this way, imagine a dog whose breed isn't known for such a friendly temperament at WDW. During Brazilian Tour Group season.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
But they have to violate the Federal law to do it.

No, because the Police are not the same as the public accomodation - the business, not the police are limited by the ADA. The police are not gating if the person can recieve accommodations or not - the police are combating fraud. It's the same subject area - but different purposes and interjections.

Now ultimately some high court may say having the police potentially investigate someone like this may impede on rights the ADA was trying to establish.. and through judgement determine the state law to be in conflict... but it's not violating the law as it is now. But a judge could effectively 'extend' the law through their interpretation.

More often than not... I'd wager most police departments don't want to get drawn into this kind of PR nightmare. Just the threat maybe enough to discourage some abuse.. but some disability lawyer group could go after the law.

Is it really that much different than enforcing towing on Handicap parking spaces??
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
As long as it wears shoes it can be a service animal, like my helper donkey:

image.jpeg


Or a diaper, like Homer Simpson's helper monkey:

image.jpeg
 

raymusiccity

Well-Known Member
:(
You would think that there would be some sort of state-level or federal-level registration for service animals so that those in need can have an official license for verification. It seems like a somewhat easy thing to fix.

It will never be easy to fix. Look at the abuse still rampant with 'Handicapped Parking Permits'. There will always be a certain number of bottom feeders who ruin it for the legitimate folks in need.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
:(

It will never be easy to fix. Look at the abuse still rampant with 'Handicapped Parking Permits'. There will always be a certain number of bottom feeders who ruin it for the legitimate folks in need.

Which is why, as many have said, we cannot have nice things. Because there is always someone who will try to scam the system and ruin it for those who need the assistance.
 

arko

Well-Known Member
Is that for real?! Now that is a service animal to posses. Would empty the park in minutes. "Eeek!!!! There's a mouse!!!"

As of 2010 only dogs and under more strict rules miniature horses are considered service animals for public accomodation.
 

Chernaboggles

Well-Known Member
Is that for real?! Now that is a service animal to posses. Would empty the park in minutes. "Eeek!!!! There's a mouse!!!"

Rats aren't recognized or used as service animals as far as I know, but some of them really are working animals with important jobs!* African Giant Pouched Rats (aka Gambian Pouched Rats) have been trained to clear landmines. The rats are too light to set the mines off, so they sniff them out and the mines are then dealt with by a human removal team (no rats are harmed during the process). They can also be taught to screen for Tuberculosis. https://www.apopo.org/en/

*But they still don't get to hang out at WDW. Sorry, rats!
 

llrain

Well-Known Member
no joke, Just 3 days ago as we were waiting for the 3pm parade sitting in front of Tony's Restaurant this, I call them beautiful person, woman walks into the park with a stroller and 5 leashes in tow with dogs that appeared to be even show ready, One was a gigantic poodle that was beautifully done up, i cant remember the rest. And this lady was the type of lady that wears the sweater over their shoulder knotted on their chest while dawning thier gucci pocket book kinda lady.
The dogs did have the service animal capes on but they looked, Ill say, extremely home made.
A. Does anyone even need that many service animals at once?
B. Are multiple even allowed? Obviously I guess if disney allowed her in the park.

If she is legit, all the power to her, If she is an attention who&# its sad she is using a disability to get attention.

And no, it wasnt a halloween party night, they wouldnt have let dogs in anyways as a part of her costume.
 

RandomPrincess

Keep Moving Forward
no joke, Just 3 days ago as we were waiting for the 3pm parade sitting in front of Tony's Restaurant this, I call them beautiful person, woman walks into the park with a stroller and 5 leashes in tow with dogs that appeared to be even show ready, One was a gigantic poodle that was beautifully done up, i cant remember the rest. And this lady was the type of lady that wears the sweater over their shoulder knotted on their chest while dawning thier gucci pocket book kinda lady.
The dogs did have the service animal capes on but they looked, Ill say, extremely home made.
A. Does anyone even need that many service animals at once?
B. Are multiple even allowed? Obviously I guess if disney allowed her in the park.

If she is legit, all the power to her, If she is an attention who&# its sad she is using a disability to get attention.

And no, it wasnt a halloween party night, they wouldnt have let dogs in anyways as a part of her costume.

Trainers could have more then one dog.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Trainers could have more then one dog.

Yeah, a yuppie preppy looking trainer with a Gucci handbag....NOT! I've seen trainers with an in-training service dog. (1). They don't look like they just walked out of 90210, (2) they don't have more than one dog and aren't pushing a stroller and (3) that dog will have a vest indicating it is in training, one that doesn't look homemade.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
The tag on all the dogs did not indicate "in training' . They only all said service dog or animal

I doubt if one individual needed 5 service dogs... or could manage 5, including what sounds like a standard size poodle. 99% sure she was scamming.....
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
No, because the Police are not the same as the public accomodation - the business, not the police are limited by the ADA. From the ADA website: " The police are not gating if the person can recieve accommodations or not - the police are combating fraud. It's the same subject area - but different purposes and interjections.

I know you know better. Contrary to popular misconception, the police are NOT exempt from the ADA. From the ADA website: "Title II of the ADA prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities in State and local governments services, programs, and employment. Law enforcement agencies are covered because they are programs of State or local governments, regardless of whether they receive Federal grants or other Federal funds." If they don't provide an accomodation to someone with a disability they also can be held liable for damages. They cannot make any further inquiries into the status of a service animal any more than a business or employer can. It also is not a violation of Federal law to fraudulantly claim an non-service animal is a service animal. And while a few states do have laws which make such fraud a misdemeanor, it is incumbent on the state to prove it. A difficult task considering the restrictions of the ADA and medical privacy laws. This law will act more as a deterrent on its face, since enforcement will be, as I said, difficult.

Now ultimately some high court may say having the police potentially investigate someone like this may impede on rights the ADA was trying to establish.. and through judgement determine the state law to be in conflict... but it's not violating the law as it is now. But a judge could effectively 'extend' the law through their interpretation.
The ADA is a civil law, the police have no enforcement power. Some states have enacted legislation to empower the police for ADA enforcement, but those laws cannot supercede the Federal law. So while states can make it a crime to fraudulantly claim a disability or service animal, they cannot spercede the Federal law in how it can be proved.

More often than not... I'd wager most police departments don't want to get drawn into this kind of PR nightmare. Just the threat maybe enough to discourage some abuse.. but some disability lawyer group could go after the law.
Well, the law will be hard to enforce. There is no type of registry or universal certification of service animals, so the police would be hard-pressed to get proof, which they cannot demand anyway since it violates Federal law.

Is it really that much different than enforcing towing on Handicap parking spaces??
Actually it is. As I said above, there is no universal system to identify service animals, and it is against the law to ask for proof. A car that is parked in a handicap space is required to have a placard. If a car is seen in a handicap parking space without the placard, it can be towed. There is nothing in the law that prevents that.

As a side note, Six Flags will be requiring a doctor's note next season for anyone requesting an accessibility pass. As I have stated in the past in discussions about Disney's accessibility program, they are absolutely legally allowed to do that. The issue I foresee in Six Flags' future is that the ADA applies to any person with a disability regardless of proof, so if Six Flags denies the accomodation for someone without a doctor's note they can be liable for damages.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I know you know better. Contrary to popular misconception, the police are NOT exempt from the ADA

I never said anything to infer they are exempt, nor do I believe they are. But needing to comply such as providing accommodations such as accessibility, communication aids, etc as all gov agencies must do is not the same thing as determining what can be questioned when investigating a crime. This is the area that would need court interpretation.

The ADA is a civil law, the police have no enforcement power

So what.. in this scenario the police are not investigating or trying to enforce the ADA.

Well, the law will be hard to enforce. There is no type of registry or universal certification of service animals, so the police would be hard-pressed to get proof, which they cannot demand anyway since it violates Federal law.

The ADA protects people from discrimination and being denied accommodations. It does not grant them, or their service animals, some blanket immunity from scrutiny. A police officer investigating a suspected crime is not interfering with the person receiving accommodation or altering what the public accommodation is doing. The grey area is how one determines probable cause given the lack of registration and the grey area with the ADA. Hence why ultimately a court will have to set the precedent.

Actually it is. As I said above, there is no universal system to identify service animals, and it is against the law to ask for proof. A car that is parked in a handicap space is required to have a placard. If a car is seen in a handicap parking space without the placard, it can be towed. There is nothing in the law that prevents that.

The point was there is no federal standard to define who should get placards, so the federal vs state variation in definition is interesting. It's interesting how someone hasn't challenged the standard for requiring a placard - which could be argued is like a Scarlet Letter and a unnecessary burden if the DoJ argues that documentation for other disabilities would be discrimination, etc. Gaining access to such accommodation requires registration in a state regulated and operated program. The ADA defines 'accessible' parking, yet acknowledges and lets states limit access to them, even if the limitation would exclude someone who is disabled by definition of the ADA. So the states limit and force registration and proof to gain access to an accommodation dictated under the ADA. The DoJ acknowledges and allows states to define qualifications and enforcements that in effect limit access to an accommodation mandated by the ADA. Kind of like.. making it a crime to fake a service animal.

As a side note, Six Flags will be requiring a doctor's note next season for anyone requesting an accessibility pass. As I have stated in the past in discussions about Disney's accessibility program, they are absolutely legally allowed to do that. The issue I foresee in Six Flags' future is that the ADA applies to any person with a disability regardless of proof, so if Six Flags denies the accomodation for someone without a doctor's note they can be liable for damages.

Which is exactly why the practice is to not check documentation - you can't use it as a defendable point to deny accommodation. So what does checking gain you? Nothing.. in fact it opens you to scrutiny in discriminating by requiring additional burdens. I don't see such a policy lasting and it goes against the DoJ's interpretations and findings. It would only take one activist to intentionally go in without documentation, be denied, and take them to court and win easily. It sets SixFlags up to fail and goes directly against DoJ interpretations. Doomed to fail. Disney's registration program already invites enough scrutiny... and it doesn't even risk denying access. Sixflag's idea is just begging for punishment.
 

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