My Magic + details ...

[BlackCauldron]

Your whole premise is flawed from the start, because it claims FP wasn't needed at HM because it wasn't popular. That's flat out wrong. It wasn't needed because of the throughput of the attraction, and was a cost that wasn't necessary because of that. It had nothing to do with demand.

To follow-up on the throughput point. . . . it seems to me that, over recent years, Disney has been increasing the throughput speeds on several attractions to the point that some show scenes get lost in the shuffle. HM is a prime example. In the last 5 years or so, I have never ever once seen the opening scene where the portrait turns to a skeleton. Instead a large group is shuffled in the room, en masse, and herded immediately into the stretching room. At best I have only caught the tail end of the portrait scene in passing. Back in the day, you would all enter that first room, the doors would close, you would watch the short scene, and THEN move into the stretch room. Now that scene is sacrificed to save all of 2 minutes of time.

Splash Mountain suffers from a similar issue. Again - "back in the day" - the boats were spaced far enough apart that you would never see the one in front of you go down a hill (this was especially effective during the drop in the dark). You never knew what was coming up. Now, you can see one (sometimes two) boats ahead of you.

 

[msteel]

Some time ago, in order to pull a paper FP, you had to use a credential that you used to enter the park. If you tried, for example, to send someone to a park to pull FPs for late-sleepers who did not enter the park it would not work - or so you were told at guest services - I've never actually tried.

I've been told recently that pulling FPs for people not presently in the park with their ticket (or KTTW) works. Is that true? Can you do that?

Were the people in the park earlier in the day? Disney can't tell that you left the park unless you scan at an entrance gate somewhere else (hopper required of course) can they? Of course with the advent of FP+ it may be that something has changed on the back end so that this restriction has been (inadvertently?) been relaxed.

Also, if you have your ticket on your MB and use it to enter a park, can you still use your paper ticket to pull FPs? Or will the system prevent that?

Seems like unless they unlink the paper ticket then you should be able to do that - until the paper machines go away after full rollout. Both MB and paper reference the same park admission privilege. Question is then, DOES Disney deactivate the paper ticket. The reports that I have heard about people "double dipping" during tests seem to indicate that at least some paper tickets have remained active.

 

[cbsav]

Some time ago, in order to pull a paper FP, you had to use a credential that you used to enter the park. If you tried, for example, to send someone to a park to pull FPs for late-sleepers who did not enter the park it would not work - or so you were told at guest services - I've never actually tried.

I've been told recently that pulling FPs for people not presently in the park with their ticket (or KTTW) works. Is that true? Can you do that?

Also, if you have your ticket on your MB and use it to enter a park, can you still use your paper ticket to pull FPs? Or will the system prevent that?

Something was recently "turned off" in the FP system, as currently you're able to pull paper FPs with any Disney media regardless if you entered the park using it or not. For example, i pulled tickets with KTWC that didn't have tickets on it, my APs, and paper tickets that were upgraded an no longer valid, all at the same ride within 5 minutes (at TSM). I only did this once, as a test, so no one needs to jump all over me for stealing FPs. Any i gave 4 of the 6 FPs away. Oh and we has FP+ reservations for TSM as well.

For what it's worth, i heard of those using non-disney media with magnetic strips as well, but i can't confirm as i didn't try.

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm thinking that you misread or ignored my point.

No, If everthing is scheduled in tight little blocks it will be about as pleasant as living in the old soviet union, I go to Disney to get away from schedules and deadlines

 

[Buried20KLeague]

To follow-up on the throughput point. . . . it seems to me that, over recent years, Disney has been increasing the throughput speeds on several attractions to the point that some show scenes get lost in the shuffle. HM is a prime example. In the last 5 years or so, I have never ever once seen the opening scene where the portrait turns to a skeleton. Instead a large group is shuffled in the room, en masse, and herded immediately into the stretching room. At best I have only caught the tail end of the portrait scene in passing. Back in the day, you would all enter that first room, the doors would close, you would watch the short scene, and THEN move into the stretch room. Now that scene is sacrificed to save all of 2 minutes of time.

Splash Mountain suffers from a similar issue. Again - "back in the day" - the boats were spaced far enough apart that you would never see the one in front of you go down a hill (this was especially effective during the drop in the dark). You never knew what was coming up. Now, you can see one (sometimes two) boats ahead of you.

Being rushed through the foyer like that is a MASSIVE pet peeve I have. And you're correct, they do it all the time now.

I hadn't thought about not seeing the log ahead of you in SM, but now that you mention it, you're right.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Something was recently "turned off" in the FP system, as currently you're able to pull paper FPs with any Disney media regardless if you entered the park using it or not. For example, i pulled tickets with KTWC that didn't have tickets on it, my APs, and paper tickets that were upgraded an no longer valid, all at the same ride within 5 minutes (at TSM). I only did this once, as a test, so no one needs to jump all over me for stealing FPs. Any i gave 4 of the 6 FPs away. Oh and we has FP+ reservations for TSM as well.

For what it's worth, i heard of those using non-disney media with magnetic strips as well, but i can't confirm as i didn't try.

WOW. If that's true, I NEED to get in a quick trip. I need to exploit the heck out of that before they shut it down. "3 FP limit a day" my patootie.

 

[dadddio]

No, If everthing is scheduled in tight little blocks it will be about as pleasant as living in the old soviet union, I go to Disney to get away from schedules and deadlines

Now I know that you either misread or are misinterpreting my point. My advice is to not focus so hard on the last sentence or two. That's what's screwing you up.

 

[BlackCauldron]

Being rushed through the foyer like that is a MASSIVE pet peeve I have. And you're correct, they do it all the time now.

I hadn't thought about not seeing the log ahead of you in SM, but now that you mention it, you're right.

Huge pet peeve of mine too. And as far as the boats on Splash - I remember the first time I road it, that drop in the dark scared the bejezus out of me because I had no idea it was coming. A few years later I was with a friend who had never been on the ride and I remember being disappointed that she could see the drop coming because we saw the boat in front of us go down. Spoiled the "surprise" a bit.

Another "rush-through" now tends to happen at VOTLM. I remember years ago everyone would enter the first room, the doors would close, and EVERYONE would watch the ENTIRE pre-show (it was alot longer then, but it still culminates with the glowing trident). Now, that is just another scene I am rushed through, usually entering that room either halfway through the show, or after it's over, and herded right into the theater. I know these are all small things - but these pre-shows were designed for a reason. Why have them at all if you are just going to make folks run past them so you can save 2-3 more minutes per group?

These same issues also effect JC and POTC - those log jams are getting worse and worse. Last time I road POTC I think 5 boats slammed us at the end. And we were 4th in line getting back to the dock on JC. Makes for awkward ends to otherwise good experiences.

 

[cbsav]

I get what you are saying, but I also assume Disney understands this as well. Airlines overbook flights to ensure they fill seats and sometimes folks get bumped off flights.

I am just trying to understand how any of this will work at a park like DHS. I assume anyone knowing they will be in that park will want a FP booked for TSMM. I assume Disney is not going to want to deny folks a reservation during their trip (for fear they will skip the park all together) so I feel they may be willing to overbook the ride's capacity knowing a percentage won't make their ride time. The trick for WDW will be learning the correct percentage to overbook by.

For other rides, I think they will need no shows and such for when a ride goes down.

I guess time will tell, but I can't help but feel headline attractions are going to be a tough balancing act for WDW.

I'll be interested to see how Disney adjusts FP+ capacity based on no-shows. I agree that they will likely "over book" based on a projected no show rate which at this point is a moving target, but will be a major factor. For example, on our trip in which we just tested we had 14 FP+ booked over 4 days (2 MK @ 4 FP, Epcot and AKL @ 3FP) and we ended up only 8 of the 14. IMHO, that's a very low utilization rate and if that ends up being the case, this should be a failure regarding FP+ usage in Disney's eyes.

 

[flynnibus]

You don't need to use your fp+ at the attraction to improve disney's forecasting benefit of fp+

By making your reservations at the particular park, it's a good chance you'll be at that park that day... Even if you skip one. The fp booking will give Disney extra input into their forecasting of attendance at a park.

The value is really at the park level... And less about the attraction level. The popularity of attractions isn't going to swing wildly from day to day... But park attendance can....

 

[The Visionary Soul]

And if you can better predict attendance using FP+, then who needs Extra Magic Hours anymore?

 

[RSoxNo1]

And if you can better predict attendance using FP+, then who needs Extra Magic Hours anymore?

This is actually an interesting look at this. One of the things Jim Hill said a while ago was that the people that used to book vacations 6 months out are now booking those same vacations 6 weeks out. I suspect that one of the goals is having something that guests can book that doesn't have a price associated with it. I wonder if that was a primary selling point of Fastpass+ to the powers that be.

 

[KingStefan]

Were the people in the park earlier in the day? Disney can't tell that you left the park unless you scan at an entrance gate somewhere else (hopper required of course) can they? Of course with the advent of FP+ it may be that something has changed on the back end so that this restriction has been (inadvertently?) been relaxed.
....

For the record, some friends go the same time every year (before Christmas) and have a "tradition" of sending DD (adult), who wants to go to Epcot early anyway, pull Soarin' FPs for everyone. Have been able to do this past few years with no problem, so not connected with FP+

 

[KingStefan]

Being rushed through the foyer like that is a MASSIVE pet peeve I have. And you're correct, they do it all the time now.

I hadn't thought about not seeing the log ahead of you in SM, but now that you mention it, you're right.

LOTS of other theming gets missed this way. EE comes to mind.

 

[KingStefan]

...

For what it's worth, i heard of those using non-disney media with magnetic strips as well, but i can't confirm as i didn't try.

I can recall that when FP first got started (was it 1999?) it worked with any credit card. Am I remembering incorrectly?

I do remember that the system was not well known at all. It resulted in lots of grumbling from people on standby. It was VERY awkward. Sometimes I paused and let other FP guests go by while I explained how it worked to angry standby guests. About half the time, I couldn't explain it so that they understood. With one guy, I tried to explain that anyone could do it, and they could, too, and he just kept ranting about how some people thing they are better than everyone else. Another time I explained how it worked, and the result was that the guy in the party got in trouble with is wife/girlfriend/whatever for now knowing about it already! I stopped pausing to explain, because often it just made things more uncomfortable! lol!

 

[KingStefan]

While teh SB line might be shorter, it would move more slowly becase the FP guests have a higher priority.

What really determines whether those 'low time tolerance' people get in line is the posted wait time. This wait time will tend to decrease slightly as FP is increased because the 'only one FP ride per ride per day' rule will tend to limit the number of times FP users will reride a specific ride.

Yes, you are correct, of course. The result being (because of the delay effect of FP) that sometimes the wait time will be shorter than it would have been, and sometimes longer. Difficult to tell what the effect will be overall and on the average with out further analysis / simulation.

 

[KingStefan]

... it claims FP wasn't needed at HM because it wasn't popular. That's flat out wrong. It wasn't needed because of the throughput of the attraction, and was a cost that wasn't necessary because of that. It had nothing to do with demand. You're really going to tell me you think HM isn't one of the most popular rides at the MK? Others with more knowledge on the matter than I could confirm, but I'm willing to bet HM has some of the highest rider counts per day...

HM standby lines (years ago) were HUGE. They added FP. After some time (again YEARS), HM did become less popular than it was before. Regardless of whether it is one of the most popular rides or not, demand DID go down over time. It got to the point where throughput was sufficient to handle demand without creating long wait times, and so FP no longer made sense. It was removed for that reason. Wait times DID NOT GO DOWN BECAUSE THEY GOT RID OF FP, but rather the other way around. High rider count compared to other rides or not, the idea that wait times went down BECAUSE they got rid of FP is absolutely fallacious.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

Fastpass, by its very nature, increases the the wait time of the standby queue. There is no refuting that fact. I'm not saying that the demand for the Mansion didn't also change at the same time, but Fastpass does make a standby queue longer.

 

[Bairstow]

Just got back from a 5-day trip. We stayed at Animal Kingdom Lodge and and participated in the MagicBand test.

My opinion: The things are pretty great. We did a lot of work before the trip installing the apps and scheduling various Fast Pass Plus times and dining reservations and the bands were sent to us about 2 weeks before the trip. The bands starting working fine from the second we used them to check in to the Magical Express point at Orlando International. The desk staff at Animal Kingdom Lodge seemed very knowledgeable about how to pair them with the tickets we had bought from Undercover Tourist and functioned perfectly as our room keys from the get-go. In fact, the bands seemed to work easier and more reliably than any hotel keycard I've used in the past.

In-park the bands continued to work very well. All our Fast Pass Plus reservations were recognized and the bands were useful for playing the neat interactive pirates game at Adventureland. We had tried the Kim Possible, Phineas and Ferb Cellphone Adventure, and Sorcerors of the Magic: The Gathering Kingdom before, and this one was by far the best of such "games" implemented in the park so far. The one rankle we had was in trying to change our FP+ reservations halfway through the trip when we decided to go to a different park the next day. The app server for My Disney Experience was down for a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday, but eventually it came back online in the evening and caused us no delay.

I read here beforehand that even if you're using FP+ you can still use paper tickets (If you've kept them with you) to get "normal" fast passes to in-effect "double dip" and beat the queues more often. This is still true, at least as of last weekend's test. Hopefully this "feature" will be disabled during the full rollout of FP+, because anyone in the know can abuse the system pretty well with a little planning.

A lot has been said on this board about the "big brother" aspect of the bands and to be honest I think this has been pretty overblown. A few times I had a CM address me by name as I checked in for a park entry or a FP+ return, but I think the real "point" of the Magic Bands is that they make it dangerously easy for a guest to spend more money. You don't even have to pull out your wallet to get your credit card any more if you want to buy a souvenir or snack- just hold up your band, which makes a nice little chime and glows pleasantly (positive reinforcement) and you've given another $13.95 to the Walt Disney Company. This is all very, very convenient, too convenient really, and I can easily see people with little self control spending a lot more money on their vacation because of the way they've built their system.

 

[cmybliss]

Just got back from a 5-day trip. We stayed at Animal Kingdom Lodge and and participated in the MagicBand test.

My opinion: The things are pretty great. We did a lot of work before the trip installing the apps and scheduling various Fast Pass Plus times and dining reservations and the bands were sent to us about 2 weeks before the trip. The bands starting working fine from the second we used them to check in to the Magical Express point at Orlando International. The desk staff at Animal Kingdom Lodge seemed very knowledgeable about how to pair them with the tickets we had bought from Undercover Tourist and functioned perfectly as our room keys from the get-go. In fact, the bands seemed to work easier and more reliably than any hotel keycard I've used in the past.

In-park the bands continued to work very well. All our Fast Pass Plus reservations were recognized and the bands were useful for playing the neat interactive pirates game at Adventureland. We had tried the Kim Possible, Phineas and Ferb Cellphone Adventure, and Sorcerors of the Magic: The Gathering Kingdom before, and this one was by far the best of such "games" implemented in the park so far. The one rankle we had was in trying to change our FP+ reservations halfway through the trip when we decided to go to a different park the next day. The app server for My Disney Experience was down for a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday, but eventually it came back online in the evening and caused us no delay.

I read here beforehand that even if you're using FP+ you can still use paper tickets (If you've kept them with you) to get "normal" fast passes to in-effect "double dip" and beat the queues more often. This is still true, at least as of last weekend's test. Hopefully this "feature" will be disabled during the full rollout of FP+, because anyone in the know can abuse the system pretty well with a little planning.

A lot has been said on this board about the "big brother" aspect of the bands and to be honest I think this has been pretty overblown. A few times I had a CM address me by name as I checked in for a park entry or a FP+ return, but I think the real "point" of the Magic Bands is that they make it dangerously easy for a guest to spend more money. You don't even have to pull out your wallet to get your credit card any more if you want to buy a souvenir or snack- just hold up your band, which makes a nice little chime and glows pleasantly (positive reinforcement) and you've given another $13.95 to the Walt Disney Company. This is all very, very convenient, too convenient really, and I can easily see people with little self control spending a lot more money on their vacation because of the way they've built their system.

Thanks so much for the report! It's nice to hear something positive about the MB system. I think you're right that Disney is looking for ways to make spending at the parks easier. It's like the casinos where you use credits instead of actual coins in the slot machines. You loose track of how much you're spending because you don't have to physically go through the motions. (for the record, I'm not a gambler. Went to Vegas for my 21st birthday and only spent $20.00 in the slots, just so I could say I did it.) I'm looking forward to trying our MBs out in 10 days!