xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Another great find. Thanks for this. Nice to see some actual evidence brought up in these discussions.
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Meryl Streep Blasts Walt Disney at National Board of Review Dinner
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Another great find. Thanks for this. Nice to see some actual evidence brought up in these discussions.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Boy I'm thinking there would be an uproar over bringing the Song of the South back in the 21st century and Disney profiting off of that film again. I believe it would be so ugly for Disney. I don't believe it is a Freedom of Speech issue since the owner, Disney, of the film is the one deciding not to bring Song back. It would be if someone else was not allowing them to re-release Song.
I see the path you are taking with Splash Mountain and the sound track. Frankly I was surprised at the end of the 20th century that Disney themed Splash Br'er. I was equally surprised Disney themed Dixie Landings Resort as they did, hung the pictures they did and named a food court what they did. It was more subtle but if you looked it in the eyes it was there.
I'd love to go back a few decades and be the fly on the wall to see how Splash and Dixie Landings were pitched along with how the theming was greenlighted. They fixed Dixie around the time they closed down Port Orleans after 9/11. Splash I'm guessing they opted to leave alone because I don't know how they would fix it nor does my gut tell me that the majority of guests experiencing the attraction correlate it to the movie the Song of the South. Most likely most have not seen the film that ride the attraction. My DD 22 has never seen Song, where my 26 year old DS has. He rode that Splash from the time he was little and didn't see the film until he was in college. He wasn't able to grab political incorrectness in the Splash theming without being primed by the Song of the South. That to me is reason enough not to re-release song, no need to stir the pot.
Voxel
President of Progress City
We differ opinions on that matter. I am just bothered that this film is readily available in almost every other country, and we can't get it. (The BBC even gave it somewhat of a an restoration during Easter of 2006 and made a big publicity stunt of showing it) I do think there is an issue in America where we ruminate to much on the past, but that is a topic for a different forum.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Would you like me to post some evidence that show racial insensitivity? Would that help you feel more open to the discussion that was going on earlier?
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
I don't think I would have gone there:
"The letter, to the right, states that women did not perform the position of Animator at that time. What it did not say is that women were not capable of such work. This type of job restriction could be found not only at The Walt Disney Studios but at every other animation studio. Put into historical context, this letter illustrates the culturally accepted limited role of women in the workplace in the 1930s."
Sometime saying nothing is better than trying to defend if this is all you got. Silence is golden.
"The letter, to the right, states that women did not perform the position of Animator at that time. What it did not say is that women were not capable of such work. This type of job restriction could be found not only at The Walt Disney Studios but at every other animation studio. Put into historical context, this letter illustrates the culturally accepted limited role of women in the workplace in the 1930s."
Sometime saying nothing is better than trying to defend if this is all you got. Silence is golden.
Genie of the Lamp
Well-Known Member
All I can say is that I need to plan a California vacation trip that includes visiting the WDFM (never visited it) and Disneyland Resort (only been to DCA back in Easter 2005 since DL was at capacity that day) while lodging in Palm Desert. Speaking of which, since the site is down temporarily, what's the admission charge to get in the museum?
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
It's 20 dollars for adults and 15 dollars for seniors and 12 dollars for kids. Totally try for this spring, they are going to have an extensive exhibition on Mary Blair.
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xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
No. I have no desire to debate early 20th century racial sensibilities with you.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Of course you don't. I guess, since you kept bringing up proof and evidence, that you'd actually want to see some to back up my opinion. I don't know what I was thinking.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Is it time for me to step in?
The only people who care about race are racists.
The only people who think that media (modern or past) characterizations and they see the race before the character, are also racists.
Walt Disney, by reputable accounts, was not a racist nor was he a sexist.
Those who focus on physical appearance or claim moral credibility, are "-ist" of some sort most likely, and rather than intellectually and logically deal with their personal issues, they'd rather deflect it and claim moral objectivity, when really it's all subjective.
The only people who care about race are racists.
The only people who think that media (modern or past) characterizations and they see the race before the character, are also racists.
Walt Disney, by reputable accounts, was not a racist nor was he a sexist.
Those who focus on physical appearance or claim moral credibility, are "-ist" of some sort most likely, and rather than intellectually and logically deal with their personal issues, they'd rather deflect it and claim moral objectivity, when really it's all subjective.
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Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Whoa! There are so many fields of studies about race and race relations. Human Resource Departments deal with both Race and Gender issues. Major Universities have departments for minority relations. The equal opportunity act has everything to do with race. Title IX has everything to do sexism. In our schools we have culture weeks to foster diversity. We speak to race and origin. We have career days to demonstrate what professions both men and women can hold, that doesn't make our district sexists. Education fosters broader minds. It doesn't make us racist or sexist.
Walt had his faults, his hiring practices being one of them. I would not have put out that press release on the museum website. It will take sometime to digest what Disney hastily put out, hast is never good in the long run in situations like this. There were several red flags to me. Blaming the times for his unwillingness to entertain the idea of women in that department, or nobody else hired women in those rolls, so it was OK, was how it slapped me at first blush. Minorities didn't apply to work at Disney? Seriously? They would have hired if they had the qualifications? If you didn't hire qualified women in certain roles what makes me believe you would hire minorities if all you've hired is young white men 'till now?
I'm guessing the majority of these people involved in this press release didn't work with Disney in the early years of Disney and many of the people they are quoting are part of the boys club. In the article I read today that was from long ago spoke proudly of the first women manager in Disneyland Parks in 1972. Long after Walt's death. It is hard to look at that timeline and say with any certainty that Walt didn't have issues with sexism. The offer to visit the museum for this particular purpose was entertaining. In all honesty would I expect Disney to document or display any evidence of sexism or racism? Certainly not.
That press release needed to smolder a bit longer and looked at fresh eyes a day or two later. Press releases are suppose to put out fire not add fuel.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
@Gabe1 The Walt Disney Family Museum is not connected to TWDC. The museum likely has been sitting on that essay for quite some time and when A List actor Meryl Streep says Walt's racist, anti-Semitic, and sexist that's a pretty good time to post it. The museum does social media better than good ole TWDC and the millions they throw at money pits like celebration place media group.
GrumpyFan
Well-Known Member
Why are you so intent on beating this horse dead(er)? What are you out to prove or justify?
I think most of us here are aware of Walt's hiring practices and prejudices, even if most of them he did eventually drop. So, just what is it you're trying to do, crucify a dead man? If so, I think you've done it, but for the life of me I don't understand why.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Yep. Most of which (when it comes to "race" vs "culture") can be tied directly back to a profit incentive for the person doing the studies through grants, and likely have alternative studies which counter or expound on said "studies".
And they shouldn't. A white bread woman from california (as an example) who took some courses in college isn't going to understand a white or black (or any race) person who grew up in the southern US in a largely agregarian society.
Yep, grant money is sweet.
Yes, institutionalized racism is also sweet, to those who know how to game it. If it's "equal opportunity" than why should your physical appearance matter at all?
Same as above, though there are physical, psychological and chemical differences between men and women. But, if ability is the cure, why would the gender matter unless the intent of the law is, in and of itself, sexist?
Yes, I know. As an American Indian I've been witness to how well the public education system teaches the average person about how we are and were as a people, and most of it is bollocks.
Who is "we"?
Stated as you just did, no it doesn't.
No. Logic and critical thinking does. Education for the sake of education does not. It indoctrinates.
Never said you were.
Even 50 years ago the almighty green generally trumped any other issues. As it does today.
More supposition.
Yep, there is quite a market for racism. There always has been. Why? Because it is poorly defined and hardly ever proved. Therefore, it's a great "soft science".
Social culture / ambition / language / education / economics...these things can be readily addressed or defined. "Race" as a result, makez for great fodder for those who feel the need to pat themselves on the back for their own social awareness whilst also telling their kid "you better not come home with a <insert race or social status> boy".
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englanddg
One Little Spark...
@Gabe1
I'll give you an example. What is the binding fact of someone who grew up "african american" in LA and someone who grew up in the South Carolina Gullah/Geechee culture?
Nothing. They have pretty much nothing in common.
But, the "race studies" folks would "educate" us that, well, since they are both of a certain skin tone than they were both of equally poor upbringing and have faced issues throughout their entire lives that means we should dismiss certain unacceptable social behaviors because "they can't help it".
It's like when people lump the Cherokee and the Lumbee together. It drives me nuts.
But, that's the exact sort of racist egalitarian assumptions that "modern progressive education" teaches our kids.
Did my mother mind me seeing pictures of Indians in films like Peter Pan? Not really.
Should I have been personally offended?
One of my favorite memories was when I had to go through an EEOC investigation (as a restaurant manager) because I fired a girl (who happened to be African American) because she was stealing. Her mother brought in the EEOC, and during my interview, I presented my tribal documents which also made me a "protected class", even though I have blue eyes and fair skin.
Racism is racism. You can't slice or dice it to be more or less morally wrong. Period. And, since you mentioned education, people are not born or see racism. You can merely educate people to be racist.
It shouldn't matter the "race", because race shouldn't matter. Right?
Well, unless your ideology is inherently racist.
I'll give you an example. What is the binding fact of someone who grew up "african american" in LA and someone who grew up in the South Carolina Gullah/Geechee culture?
Nothing. They have pretty much nothing in common.
But, the "race studies" folks would "educate" us that, well, since they are both of a certain skin tone than they were both of equally poor upbringing and have faced issues throughout their entire lives that means we should dismiss certain unacceptable social behaviors because "they can't help it".
It's like when people lump the Cherokee and the Lumbee together. It drives me nuts.
But, that's the exact sort of racist egalitarian assumptions that "modern progressive education" teaches our kids.
Did my mother mind me seeing pictures of Indians in films like Peter Pan? Not really.
Should I have been personally offended?
One of my favorite memories was when I had to go through an EEOC investigation (as a restaurant manager) because I fired a girl (who happened to be African American) because she was stealing. Her mother brought in the EEOC, and during my interview, I presented my tribal documents which also made me a "protected class", even though I have blue eyes and fair skin.
Racism is racism. You can't slice or dice it to be more or less morally wrong. Period. And, since you mentioned education, people are not born or see racism. You can merely educate people to be racist.
It shouldn't matter the "race", because race shouldn't matter. Right?
Well, unless your ideology is inherently racist.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
It's funny that she said that about women. I've heard the anti-Semitic stuff thousands of times but oddly never the women thing (thats to say I really don't research old points of views on 1 man)
My husband always used to joke that Disney (as a company) hated women purely based on the fact that a lot of Disney villains are women. It was totally a joke!
But it's funny now that Meryl is saying that it's a true thing.
AND ITS OK...I DONT TRUST CATS EITHER!
I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but whatever...what she said is not true. Period.
jlsHouston
Well-Known Member
Ahhhh... I have nothing to add... or subtract from any of the posters...I did wonder where the thread was going to show up once I caught Ms Streeps speech on yahoo
.....took me a while to find it here...I just started scrolling down finally in the thread topics....I had no idea until today how diverse this site really is...
...I did wonder where the thread was going to show up once I caught Ms Streeps speech on yahoo.....took me a while to find it here...I just started scrolling down finally in the thread topics....I had no idea until today how diverse this site really is...
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
No. I know what you're thinking. And this is not the place for it. That's been my point from go.
flynnibus
Premium Member
and...that's where you go off the tracks...
Even tho they were treated as property by slave owners - and had conditions placed on them differently - it's not as if every slave lived their days chained to a stump. Humans, even under adverse conditions find their own escapes.
Would you be equally upset over medival peasants singing and dancing? They too had their lives controlled by their to their lord and were effectively slaves. Yet, like slaves, still evolved their own entertainment.. including song and dance.
Third, the film is a period of free men. Are blacks supposed to act sour and sad at all times because of their past?
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