Marvel Studios Developing Asian Superhero Film ‘Shang-Chi’

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's great, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's not about hindsight being 20/20 for me. I watch phase 1 all the time and I can say it was hands down, far and away better than phase 4 for me. I'm not saying phase 4 was some sort of complete poop show. There was things I loved, spiderman, things I didn't really care for, eternals, ms marvel, she hulk. And a lot of so so. Thor and Strange just fell short, and that was a big disappointment.

The new stuff is hot garbage compared to the first 10 years…

It’s always hard to “go home again”

But Mr. mcMarvel is never gonna move off his stance. That’s fine…everyone need not agree…

But Disney isn’t going to be in the business of financing hundreds of millions of dollars of yearly production costs each year as the return diminishes - and it is - while they searched for quarters under bit stories and characters

It’s gonna go back to Hollywood mainstream or we know what will happen

 

[Disney Irish]

The new stuff is hot garbage compared to the first 10 years…

It’s always hard to “go home again”

But Mr. mcMarvel is never gonna move off his stance. That’s fine…everyone need not agree…

But Disney isn’t going to be in the business of financing hundreds of millions of dollars of yearly production costs each year as the return diminishes - and it is - while they searched for quarters under bit stories and characters

It’s gonna go back to Hollywood mainstream or we know what will happen

Regarding the quality of the recent MCU offerings, that is always going to be subjective. There will be many opinions, and we can disagree as its based on personal taste. Some will enjoy it, some won't.

MCU will be bringing the X-Men and F4 (F4 in 2025), and the rumors have been some larger names in some of the key roles, so there is your "Hollywood mainstream".

And speaking of financials -

Of the ~500k movies ever made in the history of cinema only 52 have made over $1B, and that includes Way of Water.

52, think about that. That is only 0.001%, a very small number, meaning its not something that happens all the time.

So this idea that all MCU movies, heck even any Disney movies, "needs" to make over $1B is not only silly but unrealistic.

I've been saying that costs have to come down on MCU films, as do all Disney films, I think pretty much everyone agrees with that. But its clear that we need a reset on expectations on the Box Office, it was never going to be sustainable for every film. Do I think that some MCU films might still hit $1B or higher, of course. But I'm not fooling myself into thinking that every single one is going to be a $1B.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Regarding the quality of the recent MCU offerings, that is always going to be subjective. There will be many opinions, and we can disagree as its based on personal taste. Some will enjoy it, some won't.

MCU will be bringing the X-Men and F4 (F4 in 2025), and the rumors have been some larger names in some of the key roles, so there is your "Hollywood mainstream".

And speaking of financials -

Of the ~500k movies ever made in the history of cinema only 52 have made over $1B, and that includes Way of Water.

52, think about that. That is only 0.001%, a very small number, meaning its not something that happens all the time.

So this idea that all MCU movies, heck even any Disney movies, "needs" to make over $1B is not only silly but unrealistic.

I've been saying that costs have to come down on MCU films, as do all Disney films, I think pretty much everyone agrees with that. But its clear that we need a reset on expectations on the Box Office, it was never going to be sustainable for every film. Do I think that some MCU films might still hit $1B or higher, of course. But I'm not fooling myself into thinking that every single one is going to be a $1B.

So if your stance is that the money doesn’t matter…
…I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news.

And that isn’t as simple of a stance as it seems. TWDC has moved away from the era of “Enough”…in every facet. That’s that idiot Bob…

…now it’s “more” and that makes any franchise more difficult to navigate.

I don’t even disagree with you about box office….some things don’t need to grow…but our stance is extinct.

X is the chance. Fantastic four has never really done well…because the characters weren’t compelling…but you can get that from X.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what this discussion/debate is even about.

Well it’s gone off the rails into a general state of marvel thing…I think?

 

[Disney Irish]

So if your stance is that the money doesn’t matter…
…I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news.

And that isn’t as simple of a stance as it seems. TWDC has moved away from the era of “Enough”…in every facet. That’s that idiot Bob…

…now it’s “more” and that makes any franchise more difficult to navigate.

I don’t even disagree with you about box office….some things don’t need to grow…but our stance is extinct.

X is the chance. Fantastic four has never really done well…because fhd characters weren’t compelling…but you can get that from X.

I'm not saying money doesn't matter, what I'm saying is profit matters not Box Office. And the way to get more profit out of the MCU is to lower costs not expect a higher Box Office. In fact that is the overall stance of Iger 2.0, lower costs.

F4 has a chance to be good if done right. X-Men has a big shadow looming over it as the Fox movies are still beloved, so it has to be hit out of the park. However neither will be the entire focus of the MCU, they will be a part of the overall story, but not THE story.

The MCU will always be about using all characters to tell a story, including Shang Chi, not just a few characters.

 

[erasure fan1]

So this idea that all MCU movies, heck even any Disney movies, "needs" to make over $1B is not only silly but unrealistic.

Every movie shouldn't need to do a billion, I totally agree. And quality is subjective. But Disney has put that burden on the MCU. If you are going to make 2nd and 3rd tier character movies with 200+ million dollar budgets. You will need 750 to 800mil to make a decent profit. So if this is their plan, they need to get back to storytelling first. I know you really enjoyed this phase. But the reality is phase 4 didn't land for a lot of people.

 

[spacemt354]

While lowering costs is an important factor, I think the episodic nature of these films and the availability of them soon on Disney+ needs to be taken into account.

Disney+ started post-Endgame, before that if you wanted to see the film again you had to go back out to the theater. Now though, fans rush out opening weekend and wait another couple months for Disney+, causing massive 2nd weekend drops. Or they just wait for Disney+ all-together and only invest in theaters for the big Avengers-level films, cutting into the box office that otherwise might have come closer to $1 Billion.

I firmly believe that if something like Shang-Chi came out in say Fall 2019 to kick off Phase 4, it would have made over $1 Billion and perhaps already have a sequel. Unfortunately it didn't come out at the right time.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Every movie shouldn't need to do a billion, I totally agree. And quality is subjective. But Disney has put that burden on the MCU. If you are going to make 2nd and 3rd tier character movies with 200+ million dollar budgets. You will need 750 to 800mil to make a decent profit. So if this is their plan, they need to get back to storytelling first. I know you really enjoyed this phase. But the reality is phase 4 didn't land for a lot of people.

Yes, a movie with a $200-$250M budget needs $600-$750 just to break even at the box office. Getting more than that is profit gravy. And Disney studios (DAS, Pixar, Marvel, LucasFilm) are throwing way-too-big budgets that will wipe out any theatrical profit.

But, don't forget that there are after-market opportunities for generally well received movies to make more money in other pay windows, to burnish the appeal of D+ and to retain paying subs, and to sell merchandise. There's also some cachet with synergistic incorporation into a franchise (cf. Disney Princesses) and thus, burnishing "the brand" that boosts other content, the company, and the parks.

So, even if a movie only breaks even or is a little in deficit, *in the end,* it can still be substantially profitable.

 

[Phicinfan]

So if your stance is that the money doesn’t matter…
…I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news.

And that isn’t as simple of a stance as it seems. TWDC has moved away from the era of “Enough”…in every facet. That’s that idiot Bob…

…now it’s “more” and that makes any franchise more difficult to navigate.

I don’t even disagree with you about box office….some things don’t need to grow…but our stance is extinct.

X is the chance. Fantastic four has never really done well…because the characters weren’t compelling…but you can get that from X.

Just my opinion, but they need both. You need to have full stories based on both, to tie all three(including Avengers) into a max multi battle. My fear is though, that if this is the plan, you might as well rap up MCU.

Honestly, they need to start slowly bringing in more mutants each movie, and building the tension of X-men. Then spring a huge FF movie in to get them going. And do it well.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just my opinion, but they need both. You need to have full stories based on both, to tie all three(including Avengers) into a max multi battle. My fear is though, that if this is the plan, you might as well rap up MCU.

Honestly, they need to start slowly bringing in more mutants each movie, and building the tension of X-men. Then spring a huge FF movie in to get them going. And do it well.

At this point…you probably need to bring in as high end talent as you can find to get more eyes back on MCU…

So how do you do that?

 

[Disney Irish]

At this point…you probably need to bring in as high end talent as you can find to get more eyes back on MCU…

So how do you do that?

That isn't a way to reign in the costs however.

 

[spacemt354]

That isn't a way to reign in the costs however.

Films like Deadpool, Logan, and Joker all had star-power to them with relatively lower budgets. No reason more contained films like those couldn't be pursued.

 

[Disney Irish]

Films like Deadpool, Logan, and Joker all had star-power to them with relatively lower budgets. No reason more contained films like those couldn't be pursued.

All three of those were pretty much passion projects by their stars and/or directors. Lot easier to get an A list actor to take a lower paycheck in those scenarios.

 

[Phicinfan]

At this point…you probably need to bring in as high end talent as you can find to get more eyes back on MCU…

So how do you do that?

Here is where they lose though. MCU movies have a salary expectation, especially for top line stars. To go there you blow out budgets even more than what they have in the past - $300 million or more. At some point it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy to NOT be able to make money. Honestly, they would probably be better off going for more young unknowns like they did with Thor to save budget and push lower level Marvel hero's to find a diamond in the rough.

I do think as you probably, they have to hit a homerun with casting for FF and for main Xmen. If for no other reason to push those movies to an even higher height

 

[Phicinfan]

Films like Deadpool, Logan, and Joker all had star-power to them with relatively lower budgets. No reason more contained films like those couldn't be pursued.

No one, no one at all knew who Deadpool was, and Ryan's later movies weren't huge hits, so his costs were low. As for Logan, the Xmen movies were big but not huge, and at that point Xmen were his main claim to fame so again, not that high a cost.

 

[spacemt354]

All three of those were pretty much passion projects by their stars and/or directors. Lot easier to get an A list actor to take a lower paycheck in those scenarios.

Seems like an easy solution for the MCU. Rather than churn out films like a factory, start investing in more passion projects. Seems like Blade and Deadpool 3 are going that route as we speak.

No one, no one at all knew who Deadpool was

And you know this, how?

 

[Disney Irish]

Seems like an easy solution for the MCU. Rather than churn out films like a factory, start investing in more passion projects. Seems like Blade and Deadpool 3 are going that route as we speak.


And you know this, how?

Sorry but you don’t have a shared universe made up of passion projects. This is why DC has been so all over place, Joker isn’t tied into any of the rest of the DC universe.

As for Blade and Deadpool 3, there is no budget figures available yet for those. So you don’t know if they are lower budget or just more of the same large MCU budgets.

Deadpool was relatively unknown by the public prior to the first movie. It could have flopped worse than Green Lantern.

 

[spacemt354]

Sorry but you don’t have a shared universe made up of passion projects. This is why DC has been so all over place, Joker isn’t tied into any of the rest of the DC universe.

As for Blade and Deadpool 3, there is no budget figures available yet for those. So you don’t know if they are lower budget or just more of the same large MCU budgets.

Deadpool was relatively unknown by the public prior to the first movie. It could have flopped worse than Green Lantern.

So none of the directors, actors/actresses of the MCU are passionate about their projects? Just doing it for the paycheck? That explains a lot about the quality of Phase 4.

 

[Jedijax719]

If they wanted to spruce things up and get people excited, they should
(1) have a set line up of heroes that will show up in either KD or SW
(2) have the phase that leads up to those movies (SW since the KD era already started)
(3) have that phase be more like a serial where each movie is a chapter of sorts leading up to the big event.

That's why phase 4 was seen as a let down after EG. There was nothing the movies were leading up to and no clear line up moving forward.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I personally wanted more of a through story in the Marvel movies, not just minor breadcrumbs in the end credits.

We had characters in Infinity War asking "who's Thanos?". It could have been more clear who the imminent big bad guy was.

Maybe that's an approach to try. I know they didn't want to turn people from seeing off any given movie if it didn't work as a standalone, but is anyone really picking and choosing which Marvel movies they see?

Even if a given movie is far from a "must see" for me, I'm still going to watch it on Disney+. I'm not going to skip any installment. They could increase the serialized storytelling and I would bet it wouldn't impact the bottom line, and might even help. I mean, how many people saw Captain Marvel in theaters because of the implication we needed to prior to Endgame?