menamechris
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...I can't say I agree. Jim said that MK's 40th celebration was a modest affair, because a 5th theme park is in the works, did he not? And I think we all know better than that....
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Jim Hill on XPass attraction line-up
- Thread starter ptaylor
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Hmmm...I can't say I agree. Jim said that MK's 40th celebration was a modest affair, because a 5th theme park is in the works, did he not? And I think we all know better than that....
DisneyFan 2000
Well-Known Member
I was going to say I was all 'meh' about the idea and was about to ask the question, was it ever really needed? Moreover, the whole X-Pass thing never bothered me quite the way it does some fans. So yeah, maybe it'll result in longer standby lines for the likes of people like me unwilling to cash out on every little silly perk, but I gotta say after reading Jim's article, my blood kinda boiled at this idea:
Say I decide to save a good spot for a night show well in advance (which, btw, those night shows are my absolute most favorite things about the Disney parks), will a CM just kindly remove me from there because someone can walk in at the last second and just take my place, because they paid? Why should my viewing experience be any different from someone else's? You see unlike the rides, this part bothers me because my experience will be lessened because someone else paid up. It's not about 'plussing' someone else's vacation so much as it is about detracting from mine.
Gotta say, if this pans out, color me disappointed. Keeping my fingers crossed that it stays a perk just for the rides and nothing else.
Say I decide to save a good spot for a night show well in advance (which, btw, those night shows are my absolute most favorite things about the Disney parks), will a CM just kindly remove me from there because someone can walk in at the last second and just take my place, because they paid? Why should my viewing experience be any different from someone else's? You see unlike the rides, this part bothers me because my experience will be lessened because someone else paid up. It's not about 'plussing' someone else's vacation so much as it is about detracting from mine.
Gotta say, if this pans out, color me disappointed. Keeping my fingers crossed that it stays a perk just for the rides and nothing else.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Yes, but not by level of resort.
Scuttle
Well-Known Member
He did, that's not untrue yet. He said for the 50th they would add a 5th gate. Didn't he? I honestly can't remember.
disney fan 13
Well-Known Member
Hope they don't make the train station a viewing area for wishes...
zooey
Well-Known Member
So disappointing...
I'm seriously feel like I've just checked out of my once favorite place in the world and am now just watching it slowly sink into mediocrity, to the point where I don't recognize it.
I will bet you that WDW starts to suffer in ten-ish years when they realize that they spent so much capital on this next gen garbage that nobody wanted, and then can't (or won't) spend money on attractions and enhancements that people ACTUALLY WANT. At that ten year mark they'll sell the place or, hopefully, revert back to a simpler era, shuffling costs around to be more palatable and give up on trying to make gigantic, mammonistic profits on the place.
I'm seriously feel like I've just checked out of my once favorite place in the world and am now just watching it slowly sink into mediocrity, to the point where I don't recognize it.
I will bet you that WDW starts to suffer in ten-ish years when they realize that they spent so much capital on this next gen garbage that nobody wanted, and then can't (or won't) spend money on attractions and enhancements that people ACTUALLY WANT. At that ten year mark they'll sell the place or, hopefully, revert back to a simpler era, shuffling costs around to be more palatable and give up on trying to make gigantic, mammonistic profits on the place.
rct247
Well-Known Member
I am not looking forward to this, but I'll try to speak about without much bias.
My questions are with the logistics, planning, and research that is being done. If Disney is honestly looking at all of their attractions that currently have Fastpass are and looking to expand those offerings, they should really look at what they have and evaluate everything from a guest AND cast member stand point. I really feel like their research is flawed.
In all honesty, I can see attractions like Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, and Big Thunder Mountain having Fastpass and even xPass, but other attractions many of us know that Fastpass does not or will not work. Haunted Mansion already failed at offering Fastpass so how will xPass do well. Buzz Lightyear regularly sees a Fastpass backup too which shouldn't happen with a continuous moving attraction. Fastpass has not been offered for Stitch's Great Escape, Lights Motors Action, or Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular for over a year at all even during the busiest days. These attractions do not need them. For Stitch's case, the attraction isn't popular enough and has guests waiting the same amount of time for the next show as those waiting in the regular line.
Attractions that will get xPass don't make sense either. Monster's Inc Laugh Floor, Journey into Imagination, and the Seas with Nemo and Friends only have lines during busier days. Are these attractions just getting xPass to trick dumb guests?
Most guests think they need a Fastpass for everything. I've heard guests ask for Fastpass for everything from Muppet Vision 3D to Space Mountain to Country Bear Jamboree and even the Peoplemover. THE PEOPLEMOVER!!??!! Really?! Crazy, but true.
Attraction cast members at busy attractions already deal with enough Fastpass drama as it is. Guests already try and sometimes succeed at cheating the system with false Guest Assistance Card requests, abuse of Rider Switch Passes, trying to jump the lines without Fastpass, and excuse after excuse. With new Fastpass rules going into effect, and premium xPass that you have to pay for, and an decrease in patience among all guests in our instant gratification society will spell disaster. I will bet money that incidents like the one at Tower of Terror at DCA last week will increase in some cases all the while Disney keeps marketing the PERFECT Disney vacation.
I can only hope for the best, and I will try to be open about it, but my logic isn't matching theirs at the moment. Theirs isn't driven by guest experience; it is driven by money hunger and greed. TDO, please go experience the parks more as a guest to see the concerns. PLEASE!
My questions are with the logistics, planning, and research that is being done. If Disney is honestly looking at all of their attractions that currently have Fastpass are and looking to expand those offerings, they should really look at what they have and evaluate everything from a guest AND cast member stand point. I really feel like their research is flawed.
In all honesty, I can see attractions like Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, and Big Thunder Mountain having Fastpass and even xPass, but other attractions many of us know that Fastpass does not or will not work. Haunted Mansion already failed at offering Fastpass so how will xPass do well. Buzz Lightyear regularly sees a Fastpass backup too which shouldn't happen with a continuous moving attraction. Fastpass has not been offered for Stitch's Great Escape, Lights Motors Action, or Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular for over a year at all even during the busiest days. These attractions do not need them. For Stitch's case, the attraction isn't popular enough and has guests waiting the same amount of time for the next show as those waiting in the regular line.
Attractions that will get xPass don't make sense either. Monster's Inc Laugh Floor, Journey into Imagination, and the Seas with Nemo and Friends only have lines during busier days. Are these attractions just getting xPass to trick dumb guests?
Most guests think they need a Fastpass for everything. I've heard guests ask for Fastpass for everything from Muppet Vision 3D to Space Mountain to Country Bear Jamboree and even the Peoplemover. THE PEOPLEMOVER!!??!! Really?! Crazy, but true.
Attraction cast members at busy attractions already deal with enough Fastpass drama as it is. Guests already try and sometimes succeed at cheating the system with false Guest Assistance Card requests, abuse of Rider Switch Passes, trying to jump the lines without Fastpass, and excuse after excuse. With new Fastpass rules going into effect, and premium xPass that you have to pay for, and an decrease in patience among all guests in our instant gratification society will spell disaster. I will bet money that incidents like the one at Tower of Terror at DCA last week will increase in some cases all the while Disney keeps marketing the PERFECT Disney vacation.
I can only hope for the best, and I will try to be open about it, but my logic isn't matching theirs at the moment. Theirs isn't driven by guest experience; it is driven by money hunger and greed. TDO, please go experience the parks more as a guest to see the concerns. PLEASE!
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Well of course they have the right to do it. They have the right to do lots of things. And it may even be profitable, so I won't say it's a bad idea. I am looking at it purely from the perspective of an average tourist. And for us, it doesn't seem like a good deal.
Well, that's kind of the point. If you're not in the XPass demo, you're experience is going to suffer. How much is yet to be determined. Maybe not even a noticeable amount. But it sure isn't going to improve!
Depending how this is implemented, it may reach the point where people get fed up just as you would if a restaurant made a policy of taking bribes to seat people and it caused your wait to be too long. In the long run, I doubt this will really bite Disney. But it could chase some of us away. (Again, don't really care about Disney's side of things. Just being selfish here.)
You swipe at Universal for having a pay system. But it's apples and oranges. The system is priced so high it is rarely ever a factor. I have never actually seen anyone use it.
My local amusement park, Kings Island, implemented a pay system last summer. I have also not felt an impact there.
xPass may be similarly non-intrusive. And if so, I welcome Disney making some money. But when you read about it being on practically every attraction and Disney offering exclusive parade and fireworks viewings and other experiences, it seems like it is going to be very intrusive.
You know they are going to be advertising this everywhere. There will be dangling carrots all over property. Exclusive experiences and such to tempt you into upgrading to xPASS. Your kids wondering why they don't get to do such and such. There's a lot of potential dissatisfiers here. And I have yet to find an upside to the average tourist.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong on this one.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
1. Probably not. I doubt FP is being replaced. But expect some FPs to be reserved for xPASS users meaning fewer FPs for everyone else.
2. Yes. Possibly (probably) a substantial amount of money.
Scuttle
Well-Known Member
He wasnt wrong when he broke news of the Mine Train and he wasn't wrong about C3PO. He's also been right on the money about Next Gen and Xpass.
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
While I can see this benefiting some people, it doesn't at all benefit me. Add this to them already changing the current fastpass policy and it just doesn't seem worth it anymore. Hopefully I can make it to DL before they start implementing this crap over there. :hurl:
spaceghost
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily 100% agree with the sentiment, but this made me chuckle verily when I read it.
wdwmomof3
Well-Known Member
I'm about to that point myself.
:zipit: This is what bothers me the most. I already pay a lot of money just for tickets alone for my family, as everyone does. I certainly do not want to hand over more money for something that they have offered for free. The fast pass worked just fine for us.
Not only that, but I do not want to plan every move we make in the parks. Planning ADR's is enough of a headache. :hammer:
I dont think that I am going to be to happy with this. I hope I am wrong because I love everything Disney, but I am not feeling it right now.
steamboat wil
Active Member
The only problem i have with next-gen or x-pass is the amount of money disney is spending on making it happen. Think of it this way: all of the money for this stuff is so you can wait in line more comfortable whether it be a shorter wait or interactive games while you wait. On the other hand their attractions themselves are poorly addressed with maintence and refurbs. So why do you wanna wait in a cool line for a less than stellar show. Disney is spending over a billion to give you the same show you've had for years. I just think a billion dollars could've really cleaned up at least one park with at least one new attraction.
Wait and see...
That is all I have to say. You guys are such downers! I have enjoyed every single trip I have ever taken to Disney World, bar none. I wish I could go back to some of the fastpass threads from when it first open and find out how it was going to be terrible and a disaster. It has saved me HOURS of standing in line, and I love it.
Nevertheless, I for one am looking forward to not having to sprint through the parks to the first fastpass attraction and then try to catch up with my family. There is always a big group of dads running to EE at the rope drop of Animal Kingdom....Soarin' at Epcot...Midway Mania at the Studios. The last couple of years I have gotten a big kick out of it. I will enjoy just relaxing with my family, and if I have to spend a few extra bucks on it and an extra hour or two of my time, so be it. I just get to have that much more fun planning for the experience.
That is all I have to say. You guys are such downers! I have enjoyed every single trip I have ever taken to Disney World, bar none. I wish I could go back to some of the fastpass threads from when it first open and find out how it was going to be terrible and a disaster. It has saved me HOURS of standing in line, and I love it.
Nevertheless, I for one am looking forward to not having to sprint through the parks to the first fastpass attraction and then try to catch up with my family. There is always a big group of dads running to EE at the rope drop of Animal Kingdom....Soarin' at Epcot...Midway Mania at the Studios. The last couple of years I have gotten a big kick out of it. I will enjoy just relaxing with my family, and if I have to spend a few extra bucks on it and an extra hour or two of my time, so be it. I just get to have that much more fun planning for the experience.
spaceghost
Well-Known Member
After reading this thread, here's my $.02 (because I know people care about the opinion of a random guy on the internet):
Penny #1 - People do not like change. I am not saying this as if it is a good or bad thing, just as a fact. We do not like that this will affect how we visit the parks. At this point, I think it is disingenuous for anybody to claim (including Disney unfortunately) that they know for sure what impact this will have on touring. It may very well be negative...or not. Either way, the uncertainty is discomfiting.
Penny #2 - The "blatantness" of Disney's tack with this is a bit offputting, which is what I think is rubbing many people the wrong way. Assuming that this is a service offered for an additional fee, or even for only "some" hotel resort guests (like just Deluxe, for example), the stratification of the guest experience goes against what we have been trained to expect. That said, it is not a foreign concept, on a few fronts:
1. This is the standard for many other entertainment experiences and nobody complains - we accept it as it is. If you go to a concert, show, sporting event, etc., you expect to pay more for better seats. Well, in this case "better seats" means being able to reserve ride times and getting (ironically enough) better seats for shows, etc.
2. Other posts have mentioned other theme and amusement parks (like Universal) implementing a premier pass sort of system, where paying more gets you an improved experience at the parks. However, a thought I had goes back to opening day in 1971 (and even further for DL) - tickets, as in A, B, C, D, and E tickets. I have no idea on the actual park experiences back then, but the fact that a book of tickets had a limited number of E tickets (which were typically your most popular rides), means that someone with more $, who was willing to purchase more books of tickets, could have a noticeably "better" experience in the parks. I have no idea if this actually happened or not, but if had the money to do it, I could have just kept buying ticket books all day and riding solely E tickets if I wanted to. (Maybe this gaming of the system led to the all inclusive ticketing system we have now? No idea...) Regardless, the introduction of the all inclusive ticket has, I think, conditioned us to expect an equality of sorts among guests (even if that may be a bit of a fallacy). Which leads me to #3...
3. Beyond dollars and cents, the FastPass system and the rise of the WDW cottage industry (helped significantly by the internet) has created a guest stratification that exists today and that has grown over the past 10-15 years. This is more a stratification based on knowledge than $, but it still exists. People who want to put in the time and do the research will have a significantly improved experience. Disney trotted out the fact last year that an average family on an average day at the Magic Kingdom will experience 10-11 attractions. I think most of us here would shake our heads at that and be a bit disappointed if that was our day (assuming we were actually attempting to tour the parks and participate in as many attractions as possible). However, most average visitors do not have the knowledge to enjoy the parks as much as they should. I still don't think that a majority of the park guests really know how to use FastPass appropriately, for example.
Personally, I think Disney has gotten wise to the fact that there are websites, books, podcasts, tour guides, Disney specialized travel agents, and more (Mom's Panels?) dedicated to their parks and wants in on it, preferably for a profit. They are saying, "Look, if you give us $X (or stay at X hotel), we will make this trip better for you. We can guide you through the common pitfalls that people run into."
So, the real question is, if Disney can get an average guest up from 10-11 attractions to 15-16, or more, is it worth it? And what will the negative impact be to everyone else, will that be worth it too? I am reserving judgement at this point. I am probably personally in the camp of people who will be negatively impacted by this, to some extent. I think that it hurts us "1%ers" of WDW fans more than other groups. But, maybe it will improve the experience for enough of the rest of the visitors that I can live with it. We shall see... Alright, that's my rather long $.02 that turned into a nickel or more.
Penny #1 - People do not like change. I am not saying this as if it is a good or bad thing, just as a fact. We do not like that this will affect how we visit the parks. At this point, I think it is disingenuous for anybody to claim (including Disney unfortunately) that they know for sure what impact this will have on touring. It may very well be negative...or not. Either way, the uncertainty is discomfiting.
Penny #2 - The "blatantness" of Disney's tack with this is a bit offputting, which is what I think is rubbing many people the wrong way. Assuming that this is a service offered for an additional fee, or even for only "some" hotel resort guests (like just Deluxe, for example), the stratification of the guest experience goes against what we have been trained to expect. That said, it is not a foreign concept, on a few fronts:
1. This is the standard for many other entertainment experiences and nobody complains - we accept it as it is. If you go to a concert, show, sporting event, etc., you expect to pay more for better seats. Well, in this case "better seats" means being able to reserve ride times and getting (ironically enough) better seats for shows, etc.
2. Other posts have mentioned other theme and amusement parks (like Universal) implementing a premier pass sort of system, where paying more gets you an improved experience at the parks. However, a thought I had goes back to opening day in 1971 (and even further for DL) - tickets, as in A, B, C, D, and E tickets. I have no idea on the actual park experiences back then, but the fact that a book of tickets had a limited number of E tickets (which were typically your most popular rides), means that someone with more $, who was willing to purchase more books of tickets, could have a noticeably "better" experience in the parks. I have no idea if this actually happened or not, but if had the money to do it, I could have just kept buying ticket books all day and riding solely E tickets if I wanted to. (Maybe this gaming of the system led to the all inclusive ticketing system we have now? No idea...) Regardless, the introduction of the all inclusive ticket has, I think, conditioned us to expect an equality of sorts among guests (even if that may be a bit of a fallacy). Which leads me to #3...
3. Beyond dollars and cents, the FastPass system and the rise of the WDW cottage industry (helped significantly by the internet) has created a guest stratification that exists today and that has grown over the past 10-15 years. This is more a stratification based on knowledge than $, but it still exists. People who want to put in the time and do the research will have a significantly improved experience. Disney trotted out the fact last year that an average family on an average day at the Magic Kingdom will experience 10-11 attractions. I think most of us here would shake our heads at that and be a bit disappointed if that was our day (assuming we were actually attempting to tour the parks and participate in as many attractions as possible). However, most average visitors do not have the knowledge to enjoy the parks as much as they should. I still don't think that a majority of the park guests really know how to use FastPass appropriately, for example.
Personally, I think Disney has gotten wise to the fact that there are websites, books, podcasts, tour guides, Disney specialized travel agents, and more (Mom's Panels?) dedicated to their parks and wants in on it, preferably for a profit. They are saying, "Look, if you give us $X (or stay at X hotel), we will make this trip better for you. We can guide you through the common pitfalls that people run into."
So, the real question is, if Disney can get an average guest up from 10-11 attractions to 15-16, or more, is it worth it? And what will the negative impact be to everyone else, will that be worth it too? I am reserving judgement at this point. I am probably personally in the camp of people who will be negatively impacted by this, to some extent. I think that it hurts us "1%ers" of WDW fans more than other groups. But, maybe it will improve the experience for enough of the rest of the visitors that I can live with it. We shall see... Alright, that's my rather long $.02 that turned into a nickel or more.
PirateFrank
Well-Known Member
Your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that x-pass will not affect guests (and their vacations) that chose to refrain from using x-pass. I'd like to see your support for such an assumption.
The same assumptive argument was likely made by someone just prior to the implementation of the current ADR system. However, not once over the past 6-7 trips to WDW have I been able to dine with any level of spontaneity. Instead, I'm forced to book my ADRs 180 days in advance, because of a system that literally governs the way dining is booked. If I chose not to make an ADR for a restaurant I would like to dine at....guess what? I'm not eating there that trip. So I'm forced to utilize the system, because I simply have no other choice.
You cited an example in how you would have benefited from being able to schedule TSMM and RNRC via x-pass, as you would have been able to do those attractions on your short visit to DHS while also visiting TOT, star tours, muppets and GMR. However, you're assuming that TSMM, RNRC and the other rides and attractions in DHS will remain completely unaffected by x-pass. Until this system is put in place, no one knows what the impact of xpass on the other rides will be...but I'd be absolutely shocked if waits across the remainder of the parks weren't negatively impacted for standby riders.
Imagine your same argument, that you would have been able to schedule TSMM and RNRC that morning you went to DHS. But then remove Star Tours and The muppets from the other attractions you visited, because x-pass has made GMR and TOT's standby lines flat out thunderous. The only way you would have been able to get through the park under such circumstances, is to have booked each and every ride at home as soon as the x-pass window opened. If you chose not to....thats fine, but your going to have to miss a few of your intended stops. There in lies the problem. The more pervasive this system becomes, the far less *choice* we have when utilizing it and most guests will have to resort to a 'if you can't beat em, join em' philosophy.
Frankly, this is starting to sound a lot like the ADR system all over again!
The fact of the matter is that I'm not so sure TDO (or yourself) has considered the unintended consequences here. This x-pass system is going to radically change the way we all book our vacations in WDW....to suggest it's not going to impact our vacations and we can simply chose to use it or not, is folly.
This is not good...not good at all. Anyone that views this with the myopic view presented above has not considered the drawbacks.