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I sure hope SOMETHING is announced next weekend!
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
Yes, it's sarcasm. Saying that it's at $435 million and not $500 million (in other words, it's very close).
You have to remember, even though they cut Pixie Hollow and the chateau, they added the Snow White Coaster and CircusLand.
I don't know how imagineering comes up with their figures. I remember hearing Mr. Potato Head at TSMM cost $3+ million. I don't know how that's possible. At other parks, the very best coaster would be around $25 million. Somehow, at Disney, a modest coaster comes in at over $100 million. Even with theming and animatronics, that still seems ridiculously inflated.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I think there was a similar wondering about DCA's new Little Mermaid ride. Lee and others such as myself were rather taken aback with how it didn't seem like the ride should cost NEARLY as much as it did (i think it was 100 million as well). Somebody explained in the thread that there was something going on with the imagineering department that caused prices to skyrocket. I don't recall exactly what it was.
I heard only one of the Dumbo spinners will be new. The other will just reuse the current one (though taken backstage for a bit and refurbished and redecorated somewhat). So that should save a few bucks.
Also, a lot of times the advertising and marketing budgets are added into an addition's costs (I don't know if it's a Disney practice, but other parks do it). So, a good chunk of the money could be projected advertising and marketing costs of the FLE. You could be looking at most of Disney World's marketing costs for the next 2-3 years added into FLE cost estimate (which could easily be $200 million plus), meaning the actual construction cost would be more likely around $275 million.
I would also think that any Fantasyland concepts and r&d (whether used or not) have now been added into the list of FLE costs as well.
I would also think that any Fantasyland concepts and r&d (whether used or not) have now been added into the list of FLE costs as well.
_Scar
Active Member
Would they really pay 200 million to hype a 275 million dollar project?
I mean, they still do EE commercials so I wouldn't be too surprised lol
GLaDOS
Well-Known Member
How exactly?
500 mil - 435 mil = 65 mil difference.
435 mil - 200 mil = 235 mil difference.
I'd say the first one is a heck of a lot closer, wouldn't you?
I hate continuing to discuss this stuff in complete conjecture, but I think I remember someone in the know here saying the annual WDW advertising budget was $130 mil plus. If they do roll their advertising budgets into the cost of a project, you can bet that if an ad even barely mentions the FLE, it's costs are rolled into the FLE budget.
And would they spend $200 mil to hype a $275 mil project? If they think the project will be their main draw for the next few years, you'd better believe it.
I still say they really think the FLE will be their Potter (possibly on an even bigger scale because WDW has so much more to offer than Uni). I think they're looking at the FLE as the thing that will tip the scales for families to finally pull the trigger on a WDW vacation. The (somewhat) improved economy, FLE and even the draw of Potter make this the perfect time for families to come to Orlando and WDW. Finally green lighting the Art Of Animation Resort should tell you how much business they think they'll get in the next few years.
They aren't stupid and they aren't going to spend more money to draw people to WDW if they don't have to. Unfortunately, business sense would say to sit on the FLE for a few years and ride the wave until it goes dry. Hopefully, knowing that any new addition would take years to build, we'll still get an announcement of SOMETHING awesome for D23 this year. But, I wouldn't expect whatever it is to actually go live until late 2014-15 - around the time the excitement for the FLE has started to die down.
misterID
Well-Known Member
I was joking, dude.
jt04
Well-Known Member
My opinion of where we are.....
After seeing construction pics of Legoland I am more convinced than ever that the FLE is a response to that park primarily. That the FLE is great "counter-programming" to Potter probably sealed the deal but it is a secondary consideration. Legoland is the first. Just look at pics of the castle area at Legoland to see what I mean. It looks like parts of the FLE! Legoland is a major addition to the theme park offerings in central Florida.
That said, I think this leaves the door open for a potter swatter. I am not sure that such a thing will be announced soon but if IoA keeps drawing numbers than I think Disney has to respond in a big way. And Potter proves that spending big can still pay off big.
Lee
Adventurer
Nope. The $435mil figure includes only the design, development and construction of the FLE.
(Also keep in mind that the design/development of both Mermaid and the Mine Ride will be billed to both WDW/DCA and WDW/Shanghai. Were that not the case, the figure would be higher.)
FLE has never been seen as a response to Potter. It began development long before Uni secured Potter.
The sole purpose of the "expansion" is to add needed capacity to the park. Not to boost numbers, but to help allow the park to better handle the crowds it is pulling in now. If they wanted to boost numbers, they would have added a big headliner attraction.
I'm sure they would be happy if they got a small bump, or if some visitors decided not to spend a day at Uni, SeaWorld, Busch or Lego...but that would be a secondary concern.
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
The only thing that can really combat/kill Potterland is Potter itself, when it runs its course. As a property, there isn't really anything they can fight it with. But Potter is done now, and interest will quickly fade away. We live in a very 'what have you done for me lately?' society, and if there aren't new Potter books, no one will book vacations just to see Potterland.
Condorman
Active Member
Disney has to understand that a lot of people are coming to the D23 event for the scoops. They want exciting announcements that are made exclusively during the event. If they just retread what they've already announced, the next event may have disappointing attendance numbers.
And people need to understand that Disney is not going to spend a billion dollars every year on WDW. Only militant basement-dwelling fanboys like you expect a new coaster, dark ride and land to be announced at every D23.
Disney is wrapping up a $1.5 billion refurb of DCA; they are in the middle of expanding HKDL; and they just announced a $3+ billion investment in Shanghai. Just because they aren't spending 100% of their budget on WDW, doesn't mean they've let down the public. They've only let down you. Neither their attendance numbers at D23 nor at their parks will disappoint this year or the next. Stop speaking for other people when you cannot even speak for yourself.
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
And people need to understand that Disney is not going to spend a billion dollars every year on WDW. Only militant basement-dwelling fanboys like you expect a new coaster, dark ride and land to be announced at every D23.
Disney is wrapping up a $1.5 billion refurb of DCA; they are in the middle of expanding HKDL; and they just announced a $3+ billion investment in Shanghai. Just because they aren't spending 100% of their budget on WDW, doesn't mean they've let down the public. They've only let down you. Neither their attendance numbers at D23 nor at their parks will disappoint this year or the next. Stop speaking for other people when you cannot even speak for yourself.
They've never spent $1b a year on any park. Those numbers you threw out there are spread over many projects and many years, and as Lee said, the R&D budgets for some attractions (TLM) gets spread between multiple properties. The ($1.1b) DCA project started in 07, and won't be finished until next year. So you're down to $200m a year. Not unreasonable, and is actually a bit less, per year, then what they are spending on the FLE.
WOW. It seems $435 mil for what they're building is insane (especially knowing they're splitting the development costs). Disney should really be looking into imagineering and why their their costs are so incredibly inflated.
Mr. Potato Head cost them in upwards of $1 mil (not the $3 mil I said before). Still, that's a ton of coin. They need to look at why something like that would cost so much but also is it really worth it? Mr. Potato adds a lot to the TSMM queue, but $1 mil dollars worth? Wouldn't that same money be better used towards adding another small ride to the park? If MPH costs that much, I would imagine Ursala must cost that much or more.
I hear what you're saying about MK's capacity issues, but TDO is very results based. They won't green light a project unless they can see on paper exactly how it's going to make its money back. I'm sure the capacity is a major selling point – but I'd also bet they see this as a major draw for families with little girls. After all, how many days a year is MK really at capacity? Disney has the market cornered on appealing to little girls (Barbie is probably it's only real competition) and the FLE is a great way to capitalize on that. The Beauty And The Beast and The Little Mermaid attractions are going to be huge draws for the first couple of years.
No way. Plans for the FLE were in place way before Legoland.
I'm afraid TDO doesn't see the need for a Potter swatter. Their numbers haven't diminished since Potter came about (of course we'll never really know what their numbers could've been without it).
I would wonder if they don't actually benefit from Potter in some ways. A family may spend one day less in the WDW parks but may either spend an extra day in a Disney hotel (or Potter may be the reason they've finally come to Orlando and Disney World). The same may even be said for Legoland. Families may even extend their Disney vacations to go to these other parks. It's a win for Disney and they haven't spent a dime.
I'd LOVE to see a Potter swatter because, IMO, a StarWars land is the only thing that would really make that huge of an impact (in a park that could desperately use the upgrade). I just don't see TDO feeling that the costs are justified though.
Zummi Gummi
Pioneering the Universe Within!
We all really need to stop with these delusions that Potter is some fad that's going to fade into obscurity. I know this place is full of Disney folks, but it's time to enter the real world for a moment. Potter is not some fad like Silly Bandz or pogs, for those of you old enough to remember them.
I happen to think Forbidden Journey is easily the best dark ride in the Orlando area, possibly in the country. It's leaps and bounds ahead of anything at Disney right now. That doesn't mean I love Disney any less. They got beat on this one, pure and simple.
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
And people need to understand that Disney is not going to spend a billion dollars every year on WDW. Only militant basement-dwelling fanboys like you expect a new coaster, dark ride and land to be announced at every D23.
Disney is wrapping up a $1.5 billion refurb of DCA; they are in the middle of expanding HKDL; and they just announced a $3+ billion investment in Shanghai. Just because they aren't spending 100% of their budget on WDW, doesn't mean they've let down the public. They've only let down you. Neither their attendance numbers at D23 nor at their parks will disappoint this year or the next. Stop speaking for other people when you cannot even speak for yourself.
Disney needs to keep spending money though to keep making it. DCA is getting a major boost from all of the new stuff they've been getting. Shanghai is gonna be a worthwhile park. HKDL needed the massive expansion it's getting, because the park was so small with so few attractions, and it's not reaching very high attendance numbers.
Personally, I think the focus now needs to be on big spending at Disneyland Paris, Walt Disney Studios Paris, Animal Kingdom, and Hollywood Studios. Those four parks are in need of some major funding of additions. As far as I'm concerned, the Magic Kingdom isn't gonna see too many more guests walking through their gates...but with three other theme parks on property not getting anywhere near the attendance numbers of the MK, I think they need to think about how they can boost the number of people spending money to go through the turnstyles at the other gates. People aren't taking days out of their trips to skip the Magic Kingdom and go to IOA, no...they skip a day at one of the other parks instead. All of my friends who have visited in the past year have done just this.
So now the focus should be on a new wave of spending on the parks that aren't popping in attendance. WDSP is by far the biggest concern. They need to drop a billion in that place alone. For DLP I'd add another E ticket and another smaller ride or show. That would help them out for awhile. As for DAK...that place needs a good handful of C, D, and E ticket rides, as well as new lands and whatnot. A good 500 million or more SHOULD be forked out to that park. DHS...well, a good three or four rides would go a long way there.
You've gotta spend money and keep adding things to keep people coming back.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
And people need to understand that Disney is not going to spend a billion dollars every year on WDW. Only militant basement-dwelling fanboys like you expect a new coaster, dark ride and land to be announced at every D23.
Disney is wrapping up a $1.5 billion refurb of DCA; they are in the middle of expanding HKDL; and they just announced a $3+ billion investment in Shanghai. Just because they aren't spending 100% of their budget on WDW, doesn't mean they've let down the public. They've only let down you. Neither their attendance numbers at D23 nor at their parks will disappoint this year or the next. Stop speaking for other people when you cannot even speak for yourself.
And only militant basement-dwelling anti-fanboys would write such a post.
Also, just for kicks, I'll let you in on a little secret. WDW attendance was down in '10. I am sure that was a disappointment.
Sorry Nick, Potter is a fad.
It wouldn't be if the books and movies were continuing, but the sad reality is that they aren't. It will continue to be successful for the next five or so years (more if there's an expansion), then the draw will diminish and it will just be another well-themed island at IOA.