Four Parks: One Stale World?

[crlachepinochet]

Back to the OP's post, I do feel a little staleness spreading around the World. I think a lot of it can be traced to the show quality standards and the state of the MK. At DL, attractions become classics; at WDW, they just get old. I visited DLR twice over the last 13 months and then WDW in September. I didn't miss the extra show scenes in POTC like I thought I would, but it bothered me that WDW's sounded like I was listening to it underwater compared to DLR's. They bothered to replace all of the audio equipment during the Jack Sparrow refurb, whereas they thought they could "get by" at WDW with the 30 year-old stuff. The MK is the flagship park, so having so few worthwhile additions since Splash is inexcusable! Can anyone say that they have confidence in the management in charge of WDW, from Rasulo on down to Crofton?

Also, I think it hurts a lot of people to see nothing coming down the pipeline other than AI and Kim Possible. KP sounds cool, but it also sounds like the "capacity" will be super low. It seems the closest thing we have is Lee's report of dirt moving in DAK in '09. Every day that goes by, it seems more and more like Oct. 1, 2011 will be just another day at WDW.

 

[the-reason14]

OK from The Place Where Dreams Come True and Magic Lives, especially during The Year(s) of a (two) Million Dreams and coming soon: What Will YOU Celebrate? is the latest marketing/merchandising tagline ... Four Parks One World branding on merchandise and ads.

This just continues the marketing message that the individual parks (and their levels of freshness and quality) don't really matter so much as the whole of WDW.

Yet after visiting and seeing very little new ... and no new attraction construction (AI Theater nonwithstanding) going on, one must wonder if the shirts and hats and glasses should say 'One Stale World.'

Sea World and Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure all have major attractions under construction and others in the pipeline.

WDW, which is less than three years away from another milestone B-Day, has ... well ... uhm ... ah ...plenty of unsold DVC inventory either completed (Saratoga Springs) and unsold or under construction (DAK Lodge Villas, Bay Lake Tower, Treehouses at SS) and unsold.

It is a whole lot harder for Disney to weather a recession (bordering on depression for many Americans) than Universal or Busch because Disney has over 25,000 rooms and timeshares to fill nightly.

In other words, Disney's irresponsible growth since the mid-90s has put it in a very difficult position to get through tough economic times. And with all the cutbacks that started about the time Frank Wells was buried, one must wonder what is left to cut?

It all doesn't leave a lot of hope for new and great things in WDW's theme parks in the future at all.

But I am sure visionaries like Inoverherheadmeg Crofton, Erin Wallace, Al Weiss, Phil 'Magic Man' Holmes and company can keep the cash flowing while delivering magical WDW vacations to millions.

There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days ... and I doubt we're going to see the Imagineering Blue Sky Verandah opening in Adventureland soon ... or perhaps the Imagineering Blue Sky Wonders of the Future pavilion at Epcot ... or the Imagineering Blue Sky Soundstage at The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios or ... you get the idea.

Oh, I guess we can all look forward to the new Hall of Presidents coming in spring 2009 ... course they didn't really have much choice in that one, did they?

Stale Mountain's redo? Well, you haven't heard much about that one, have you? Neither have I ...

To be frank, if thats the way you feel, I hope you dont spend your vacation money going to WDW. I mean, yea there isnt anything exciting like E:E or TSM being built, but like someone esle said, that doesnt mean there arent things being thought of. And also, in the past few years WDW has seen Soarin, E:E, TSM, and a few other attractions. IOA is just now building the harry potter thing, and from what I hear that is the only new addition to the park since its opening. So to say that WDW is stale is false, yea, they may not have anything under construction now. But E:E, Soarin, TSM, and some others, are all recent additions.

 

[Whimsy]

I know this has already been said, but most people only visit Disney World so many times in their life, many just once or twice so just because they aren't updating as often as you like doesn't necessarily mean that Disney World is "a pale shadow" of what it was before. Disney's known for having its key, trademark rides and they have to keep most of their attractions because that's what people look forward to going to. If they were to constantly refresh their attraction line-up, people wouldn't have the chance to go visit it in the little times they go. As an Annual Passholder, of course you're gonna know every attraction and of course if you go alot, it's gonna be the same. You come to terms with that as a passholder, yet I never get bored of Disney World. Universal/Sea World/Busch only have one-two parks where as Disney has a whole lot more. Why don't you try going to the water parks or maybe staying at a different hotel when planning a Disney vacation. And I gotta tell ya, for knowing that you're coming into a WDW fansite, you're really snappy with your responses. Don't you expect people to defend and have comebacks? And to say that you have "real drama in your life" and you "don't come here to play" - you're responding quite a bit, many as frequent as 10 minutes in between.

 

[Missing20K]

Deleted

 

[WDW1974]

How dare you have a normal life! :lookaroun

Who said anything about normal?

 

[WDW1974]

Back to the OP's post, I do feel a little staleness spreading around the World. I think a lot of it can be traced to the show quality standards and the state of the MK. At DL, attractions become classics; at WDW, they just get old. I visited DLR twice over the last 13 months and then WDW in September. I didn't miss the extra show scenes in POTC like I thought I would, but it bothered me that WDW's sounded like I was listening to it underwater compared to DLR's. They bothered to replace all of the audio equipment during the Jack Sparrow refurb, whereas they thought they could "get by" at WDW with the 30 year-old stuff.

well, that's cause DL's PoC got an entirely new modern sound system, which sounds great while the MK got a few modern speakers mixed in with the '73 originals, which makes for a bleeding mix of sounds ... some too loud, many too soft and all grating. But at WDW management feels there's no need to go the extra mile and they look to cut at every juncture.

The MK is the flagship park, so having so few worthwhile additions since Splash is inexcusable! Can anyone say that they have confidence in the management in charge of WDW, from Rasulo on down to Crofton?

I have as much confidence in their management as I do that of Lehman Bros and AIG and our government in general. In other words -- NONE!

Also, I think it hurts a lot of people to see nothing coming down the pipeline other than AI and Kim Possible. KP sounds cool, but it also sounds like the "capacity" will be super low. It seems the closest thing we have is Lee's report of dirt moving in DAK in '09. Every day that goes by, it seems more and more like Oct. 1, 2011 will be just another day at WDW.

I don't know Lee. I know he's considered the insider guru of this site much like my pal Lee MacDonald at LaughingPlace.com ... of course, Leemac actually works for TWDC so he's privy to quite a lot, but only spills when he is allowed to by his handlers. I don't want to contradict Lee, but I know of absolutely no solid plans for ANYTHING at WDW now, especially DAK. If they loosen any pursestrings, I'd look for it to manifest itself in the Mermaid clone at MK and the Monsters coaster for The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios. Last I heard for DAK was that they were trying to resurrect Rivers of Light from the trash heap (after a whole lot of development dollars were spent) ... I've also seen a model of a certain large TDS attraction located appoximately where the character meet, greet and grope land is, but that was a few years back and I believe it was strictly blue sky.

It will be a very sad day on 10-1-11 if TWDC once again chooses to ignore a milestone MK B-Day and doesn't celebrate with a new attraction(s) and parade and pyro show. But right now, all I'd expect is crappy LE pin sets!

 

[WDW1974]

I know this has already been said, but most people only visit Disney World so many times in their life, many just once or twice so just because they aren't updating as often as you like doesn't necessarily mean that Disney World is "a pale shadow" of what it was before.

Keeping a park fresh doesn't simply mean building new attractions. It means updating old ones. It means adding new parades, shows, live entertainers and seasonal entertainment. It means new shops and dining. It means paying attention to the Disney Details ... from keeping the parks clean to having fresh merchandise to updated costumes for the CMs to new food items etc ... and, yes, WDW in many ways is a pale shadow of what it once was in so many aspects of SHOW.

Disney's known for having its key, trademark rides and they have to keep most of their attractions because that's what people look forward to going to. If they were to constantly refresh their attraction line-up, people wouldn't have the chance to go visit it in the little times they go. As an Annual Passholder, of course you're gonna know every attraction and of course if you go alot, it's gonna be the same. You come to terms with that as a passholder, yet I never get bored of Disney World. Universal/Sea World/Busch only have one-two parks where as Disney has a whole lot more. Why don't you try going to the water parks or maybe staying at a different hotel when planning a Disney vacation.

I have spent countless days at Disney's water parks, although they closed my favorite and it now sits and rots in the Florida sun. I also prefer Aquatica to Disney's current H20 offerings. As to hotels, I have stayed at EVERY WDW resort multiple times (with the exception of ASMovies, OKW and BC Villas). I've also stayed at every DD hotel numerous times and many off-site too!

And I'll repeat, bigger isn't better. Disney gave a higher quality overall product when it had only 2-3 parks and far fewer resorts.

And I gotta tell ya, for knowing that you're coming into a WDW fansite, you're really snappy with your responses. Don't you expect people to defend and have comebacks? And to say that you have "real drama in your life" and you "don't come here to play" - you're responding quite a bit, many as frequent as 10 minutes in between.

I'm enjoying the back and forth. When it gets boring, I'll stop ... actually, I'm stopping now for the night as I'd like to take advantage of the extr hour of sleep!

 

[Missing20K]

I'm sorry, I didn't see you post an opinion on this.

My point is that Disney has to compete with it'self. A typical Disney attraction takes years of developement and planning. They don't just plan a ride, they plan the story, sets, lights, sound, the queue, pre-show, post show, merchandising, and marketing of each attraction. I'm not saying that the other parks don't I'm just saying that Disney will always iron out every tiny detail over and over again.

You mean ironing out every tiny detail like they did with SSE before opening it?

I tend to agree with the OP, though not entirely, as I do not necessarily agree that Disney will be hit as hard by the economic situation. They are an extremely diversified media entertainment company, and while a good portion of profits, approximately 25-30% historically, and while I agree the economic situation for many Americans will certainly mean lower profits for the theme park division, it is my thinking that they are much better suited to weather an economic storm than a company like Cedar Fair, who rely entirely on their theme parks to generate revenue.

On a similar note, I would not be surprised to see them actually make more money from movies during the next year as historically movie attendance has increased during times of recession and depression.

But on the whole I do agree with the OP, as my first visit in over a decade last January, while still extremely fun, I felt the parks were in serious need of a general "once over." That is, a fresh coat of paint where needed, better landscaping, better food, etc. I feel better general upkeep and maintenance would give the parks a seriously-needed freshening which, in my opinion, would do more for the parks atmosphere than a bunch of new, yet poorly conceived attractions (I'm staring right at you AI).

The major obstacle, in my opinion, to the Disney Corporation giving the Disney parks what they so sorely need, is simply a matter of money. With most present company excluded, the vast majority of Disney park-goers will only ever visit the parks just a couple of times in their life. So they seem to be far more concerned with just getting people there, separating them from their cash, and not caring as much as they may have in the past, to create a unique and magical experience not found anywhere else in the world that attracts people to return time and again, and with their children, and grandchildren. In my opinion, the Disney parks are not creating the atmosphere, environment, and sense of whimsy that "hooks" children and adults alike, and making them lifelong customers.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

It's his opinion which is fine. It does sound like a personal anti Disney rant more than anything else, which makes me less inclined to read his valid or invalid points.

But not so inclined as not to make several posts, whod have thunk :shrug::shrug:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Can I just say it seems to me that the Magic Kingdom has fewer attractions open now than it did on our first trip 15 years ago, and the replacements with 1 exception, are of a lower standard than the items they replaced.

World Showcase seems pretty unchanged too

The Studios still isnt a full day park, and isnt really a studio any more

The AK is the one park that is growing, but one major addition in 10 years? Surely thats the criticisms many on here level at Universal.

Perhaps too much attention on building DVC. IMHO of course

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

Perhaps too much attention on building DVC. IMHO of course

You get more income from DVC (as long as you can sell them)

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

You get more income from DVC (as long as you can sell them)

which you use to build more DVC units, Id hazard a guess that most DVC purchasers are already staying at resorts so are you truly increasing the numbers, or are you just committing them to loyalty for the rest of their lives?

Rather than dining deals if Disney want people to stay in the parks longer it should give them more to do, and I dont mean standing in line for hours

 

[cmatt]

which you use to build more DVC units, Id hazard a guess that most DVC purchasers are already staying at resorts so are you truly increasing the numbers, or are you just committing them to loyalty for the rest of their lives?

Rather than dining deals if Disney want people to stay in the parks longer it should give them more to do, and I dont mean standing in line for hours

*/whispers in the middle of kevin costner's corn field...*...if you build it - they will come....*/whispers in the middle of kevin costner's corn field...*

i personally believe they have over saturated wdw with the vacation club... members will soon get bored of revisiting the same parks with the same attractions... and may venture afield to universal

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Agree with OP. WDW and more specifically MK is monstrously stale. No new parade in 7 years? No new major attraction in 13 years? (I count AE and Timekeeper) Replacing higher capacity attractions with lower ones or simply not replacing some attractions at all with anything while crowds increase? Fewer restaurants but a push for more poeple to eat in them? More generic shopping? A major marking push for refurbishments which should be thankless chores and expected from a company that claims to be delivering top notch products all the time?

I don't buy the "people only go there once" argument. That's just making money off the concept of "ignorance is bliss". Why not appeal to both newcomers and returning guests? Is it too much of a request to ask for both?

Disney is too big a company to spend money on WDW? Then what about DLP, DL, HKDL etc.? You shouldn't build it if you can't maintain it. DVCs and Phil Holmes combined are ruining WDW.

WDW, WDSHE and Disney Stores are the most mismanaged and horribly run sections of the Walt Disney Company. Unfortunately, they are the ones that affect me the most.

 

[disneydiva72]

Being a person who has visited WDW over 20 some odd times.....I have been migrating over to Universal and IOA more and more.....I have seen the DVC takeover over the years....I think Disney puts more into the DVC than they do the parks anymore...its quite sad. This year we are staying at AKL but spending 90% of our time at Universal/IOA with only going ONE day to AK for my sons B*day, but if not for that we wouldnt have gone at all. We are not DVC members, thought about it and then said Nahhhh...I can stay at their 1 bedroom villas anyway and not pay a monthly bill.

 

[MousDad]

Ladies and Gentlemen, in this corner, we have Spirit/WDW1974 and his prediction of nothing new, except maybe Mermaid and MI coaster between now and the 40th, no major anniversary celebration, and nothing but cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts.

In the other corner, we have Lee, Martin, and Jedi of wdwmagic who have each been telling us for weeks about projects that are imminent at the world, including Mermaid, MI, JII, DAK project, SM (more than cleaning), and others.

Could this just be the incessant pessimism of LP challenging the cautiously optimistic DOMs of wdwmagic? Or are there competing forces in TWDC who are leaking separate sets of info, waging a hidden battle for the direction of the parks? Will the economy be the ultimate victor in this fight?

It's going to be interesting to see who turns out to be right, although in actuality it will probably end up being all parties being a little right and a little wrong.

 

[marni1971]

although in actuality it will probably end up being all parties being a little right and a little wrong

That it will. What is coming over the next 4 years isn`t exactly too little too late, but it should never have taken so long. There is still a lot wrong with the management, their attitude and structure of running the parks but it looks like we`ll be saved a Pressler/Harris scenario. Things are a lot better than they were a decade ago.

Yes, the ecomomy is affecting plans. Not as much as you would have thought, but things are being watched very carefully with budgets and timeframes still movable feasts.

It is a fact that Spectromagic will be 20 years old by 2011. Even Fantillusion will be 15 years old by then. Tokyo moved forward with a totally new parade with Dreamlights, but Spectro is certainly showing its age. It is still great - but imagine what it could be like. The program to plus the staple MK E Rides is still progressing, with some plussing of already done deals. Space Mountain may not become Anahiem or Paris, but it should still be a vast improvement. There are many other ideas being bounced around but without taking the plunge the fact still remains it is 16 years since anything new was built in the MK. Epcot seems to be slowly moving out of the dark ages, though it is still an uphill struggle. Imagination should follow SSE in bringing in the 4th chapter of Futureworld. Showcase is slowly being updated using existing facilities - America, Mexico, China and Canada is evidence of this. More will follow. Of course, the big hit would be a new country with a family E Ticket. Don`t count on it. The Studios is in big need of help. A fragmented identity, no synergy between areas and attractions, a sadly neglected park icon and an overall shadow of its former self. Plans are in place to bring the park back to its glory days, but it shouldn`t have been allowed to get so bad. Didn`t they learn with Epcot in the late 90`s? TSMM had to happen - even if it was a cheap way of boosting attendence and news - but the end result speaks for itself. DAK is still flawed partly by guest perceptions and a park lush with theming and landscaping but little true attractions to eat into great chunks of time. Again, this should be fixed in the medium term but get things right first time and you don`t need a fix. Right, DCA and WDSP??

DVC is a money maker. Like it or not. Oversaturated coverage won`t be stopped since it is on a roll. Generic merchendise is a money saver. The retro tops have sparked an interest in specific items for specific areas, but much more is needed to avoid the corporate blandsville that the Main St Mall (Emporium) and half-a-facility-is-a-store (MouseGear) have become. There are so many easily-fixed faults in the parks (Odyssey, Life) and still too many dangerous desicions being gambled upon (Idol) but the future is brighter than it has been for a long time. It just needs a management team with the nerve to pull it off. There won`t be a Disney Decade again, nor a 1984-1994 era, but the stagnation of the mid to late 90's and early zeros is coming to end. Not fast enough, but it is happening.

 

[WDWGoof07]

*/whispers in the middle of kevin costner's corn field...*...if you build it - they will come....*/whispers in the middle of kevin costner's corn field...*

i personally believe they have over saturated wdw with the vacation club... members will soon get bored of revisiting the same parks with the same attractions... and may venture afield to universal

I think you hit the nail on the head. Sooner rather than later, Disney needs to develop the parks and keep them fresh, or else they'll have empty DVCs all over property while the DVC members are all riding Harry Potter Land and Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit at Universal, or Manta at Sea World. Disney shouldn't expand DVC beyond Bay Lake Tower for the time being, and should concentrate on freshening up the parks.

That it will. What is coming over the next 4 years isn`t exactly too little too late, but it should never have taken so long. There is still a lot wrong with the management, their attitude and structure of running the parks but it looks like we`ll be saved a Pressler/Harris scenario. Things are a lot better than they were a decade ago.

Yes, the ecomomy is affecting plans. Not as much as you would have thought, but things are being watched very carefully with budgets and timeframes still movable feasts.

This is good to hear, Martin.

 

[jt04]

Ladies and Gentlemen, in this corner, we have Spirit/WDW1974 and his prediction of nothing new, except maybe Mermaid and MI coaster between now and the 40th, no major anniversary celebration, and nothing but cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts.

In the other corner, we have Lee, Martin, and Jedi of wdwmagic who have each been telling us for weeks about projects that are imminent at the world, including Mermaid, MI, JII, DAK project, SM (more than cleaning), and others.

Could this just be the incessant pessimism of LP challenging the cautiously optimistic DOMs of wdwmagic? Or are there competing forces in TWDC who are leaking separate sets of info, waging a hidden battle for the direction of the parks? Will the economy be the ultimate victor in this fight?

It's going to be interesting to see who turns out to be right, although in actuality it will probably end up being all parties being a little right and a little wrong.

Spoken like a true moderate. Above all and wiser than the masses. Yep we are all just a bunch of losers here.

 

[cls4016]

I have never in my life said WDW was an awful place.

Read what is written. Not what is in your head.

I love WDW. That's why I visit. That's why I was one of the first 3,000 people to buy an AP ... ever.

That's why I've spent so much money I don't even want to comtemplate how much.

What I do want is WDW to live up to its reputation and the legacy of its founders.

It isn't doing so now. Not even close. It's offering recycled magic to largely bumpkin tourists and newbies who never visited in the 1970s and 80s (many even 90s) who have no idea how much better the place used to be run.

Any questions?

Wow what an elitist statement.

So what your saying is... it is possible to visit WDW too many times.