Economy does in Fantasyland

[Disney MDACK]

Our favorite disney correspondent Jim Hill gives us the details over at
http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_h...y-world-postpones-fantasyland-s-facelift.aspx

HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!

 

[Master Yoda]

The worst thing in that article was about Space Mountain. If we regard what Jim says as fact it looks like the 7 month spit and polish refurb has won out over the 12-18 month gutting that SM really needs.

 

[sbkline]

The only thing in that list that I would really hate to see happen is the retheming of ToonTown Fair with that silly Mickey's Clubhouse theme. I'm a very traditional Disney person in that I want to see more focus kept on the classic Disney characters at WDW rather than seeing an invasion of Pixar and other "modern" Disney characters. But along with that, is also a desire to see the classic forms of the classic characters remain dominant, rather than being replaced with this 21st century, computer animation version of the classic characters. I like to find clothes for my son with one or more of the classic 5 on them, but I refuse to buy ones with Playhouse Disney on it, for example.

 

[krankenstein]

Everything on his list, with the exception of TLM, was blue sky according to what Lee and Martin has been saying. All he is doing is pulling a Chicken Little to drive up the number of people reading his blog.

BTW, I expect TLM to happen despite what our beloved Mr. Hill says. I will stick with what Lee and Martin has been saying because Jim isn't exactly the most reliable source when it comes to rumors.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Everything on his list, with the exception of TLM, was blue sky according to what Lee and Martin has been saying. All he is doing is pulling a Chicken Little to drive up the number of people reading his blog.

BTW, I expect TLM to happen despite what our beloved Mr. Hill says. I will stick with what Lee and Martin has been saying because Jim isn't exactly the most reliable source when it comes to rumors.

Yep.As always, Mr. Doom and Gloom strikes again.

 

[DisneyWales]

What he is saying makes some sense (let be honest though, anyone can say that company X is rethinking their business plans given the current financial uncertainty). I just hope that things settle down soon, not just for WDW's sake, but for the sake of just about every person being hit by this damn credit crunch.

 

[tonythetigerasn]

So, Jim Hill has just told us that two refurbs that have long been speculated (one already on the refurb calendar) are still going to happen, and everything else is still up in there air.

This way, when TLM DOES go under construction in the MK...

"Disney World managers have pushed TLM into a brisker-than-liked construction at the resort in an attempt to boost attendance numbers. Yes, this contradicts what I told you last month, but the suits have decided now... However, everything else got the axe because of tough economic times"

He sure seems like an insider!

 

[aladdin2007]

This also probably means much of nothing for the 40th, unless they have already budgeted for that?

I wonder about the new Journey into Imagination?, I guess we wont see that now either. True all the rest was blue sky anyway but was hoping they would still go through with mermaid, MK needs something like that and sooner rather than later.

 

[Katherine]

It's understandable but we'll just have to wait and see. I can understand disney not wanted to get loans and large funds during this time.

sbkline, I agree my stomach dropped when he said that that was the plan for retooling mickey's Toon Town. I went to Disneyland this summer and why can't we get even a piece of what they have????! It's incredible over in Cali.

 

[markjohns1]

As far as role of the economy in this situation, it is not surprising to hear there will be delays or cutbacks. It's good to see a potential timeline though.

Also, nowhere in the article does it state TLM is not happening, just that it's pushed back. I know bashing him is the hot thing to do, and I always see his reliability called out when it comes to rumors, but isn't that the nature of rumors? They're not all going to be correct or accurate.

 

[OFTeric]

Jim is right about the battening down the hatches at WDW. The refurb of Space Mountain and it's budget went through insane and very HEATED meetings about what is getting touched now, what is getting axed.

Not sure how much I can share about what I know about those meetings but suffice it to say the money they wanted and planned for is not there.

 

[Master Yoda]

Jim is right about the battening down the hatches at WDW. The refurb of Space Mountain and it's budget went through insane and very HEATED meetings about what is getting touched now, what is getting axed.

Not sure how much I can share about what I know about those meetings but suffice it to say the money they wanted and planned for is not there.

Which more than likely means WDW's Space Mountain is getting the shaft yet again. If all they are going to do is that 6 month refurb I would much rather see them scale it back even farther. Do a 1 month refurb, patch the thing back together and do the grand 18 month refurb properly in a couple of years when the money is there. If they go ahead with that 6 month band aid we will not see the refurb Space Mountain needs fr another decade.

 

[MousDad]

Okay, but this completely contradicts what was discussed yesterday in the SM Question thread. It was stated there that money was not an issue in the SM scaleback, but the decision was related to length of downtime solely.

If OFTeric is for real and budgetary concerns were the reason, some apologies are due to Phil Holmes from some board members here (on this issue anyway).

Edit: Not calling anyone out. Just want to know the real reason.

 

[RiversideBunny]

The rumor that that the refurb of Space Mountain will be 'scaled back' doesn't sound logical.

The refurb of SM was a long time in coming and required a lot of planning for the project. There are probably already things in place, like the ordering of new track and equipment, and sub-contracting, etc. that have to be done well in advance of actually closing down the ride.
The temporary ups and downs of an economy should have little effect on such a long term, thouroughly planned, and comprehensive project.
One of the prime motivating factors, IMHO, for the refurbishment of Space Mountain is saftey and that cannot be put off.

I think the project is just too big and involved for WDW to do it half way.
You can't stop a freight train that's already roaring down the track. It's all or nothing.

 

[Master Yoda]

Okay, but this completely contradicts what was discussed yesterday in the SM Question thread. It was stated there that money was not an issue in the SM scaleback, but the decision was related to length of downtime solely.

If budgetary concerns were the reason, some apologies are due to Phil Holmes from some board members here (on this issue anyway).

I could see both being true. Initially Holmes wanted the refurb scaled back due to the length of time it would be down. Glendale basically said the money is there lets do it right. In light of recent events in the US economy the budget might have evaporated and Holmes will now get his way by default.

All in all I think Holmes was wrong. The future should not be sacrificed for the present. Five years from now no one would have remembered weather SM was down for 6 months or 18 but they sure as hell would know if they got a half attraction out of the deal.

 

[jt04]

There are things in the article (moving Dumbo for instance) that makes me question the whole article. Jim also informed us not long ago that a Russian pavilion was going to WS so his sources are somewhat questionable. That said, the best time to spend can be during economic downturns as construction contracts often become cheaper during lean times. Disney is not short on capital and is relatively recession proof. If you are not out spending you are more likely to be at home watching ESPN/ABC or that new Disney DVD.

Of course if Disney does cut back at the parks it is more likely people will cut back on AP's and trips to WDW. This could be the best time to roll out a whole series of future plans and getting started on them. Personally speaking, I do tend to look past the next quarterly report.

 

[MousDad]

The refurb of SM was a long time in coming and required a lot of planning for the project. There are probably already things in place, like the ordering of new track and equipment, and sub-contracting, etc. that have to be done well in advance of actually closing down the ride.

This train of thought comes up a lot in this discussion, and I'm not necessarily disputing it. But just because things were planned x years ago, doesn't that mean they would have been based on projected budgets? I'm assuming it wasn't all paid for back then. If "the money's not there," then what can you do?

 

[RiversideBunny]

.....construction contracts often become cheaper during lean times. Disney is not short on capital and is relatively recession proof. ....

That's a good point about the budget.
Most large companies have a separate budget for capital improvement, real estate, etc.
It is not the same as the operating budget (sales/onging income and expenses).

The captial budget is not nearly as affected by temporary fluctuations in the economy, if at all, as is the operating budget.

:king:

 

[Lee]

Not sure how much I can share about what I know about those meetings... .

Everything. I won't rat you out...Phil will never know.

Anyhow, others are dead on about the money. Any funds for SM would already have been budgeted for fiscal '09 which has already started. Any cutting on the project would have happened some time ago. I blame gun-shy management more than lack of funds until I hear differently from someone involved.

 

[jt04]

This train of thought comes up a lot in this discussion, and I'm not necessarily disputing it. But just because things were planned x years ago, doesn't that mean they would have been based on projected budgets? I'm assuming it wasn't all paid for back then. If "the money's not there," then what can you do?

The money is there by the bucket load. Even if it wasn't, Disney would have no problems securing loans even when no one else can.

I think the point riversidebunny was making is that it is possible Disney has already paid for a lot of the hardware for the SM refurb and that at some point the project is not stoppable although it sound like it might have been scaled back which would be a terrible mistake IMO.

Maybe the money that was going to the FL extreme makeover has been temporarily diverted to do the SM refurb as originally planned :sohappy: