DCA Setting Records and WDW

[Californian Elitist]

And that's the whole problem...the people keep going and spending their money, regardless of them thinking things are great or not. I have spent less and less at WDW the past number of years...since 2008 when Toy Story Mania opened. As fans it's good to be vocal to keep WDW at the top of its game. It's ok to be upset when things are being done on the cheap. It's ok If you love it as it is, but as so many have said before, the quality has declined. We should hold them to a higher standard. I do. If they give me something to get excited about, I reward them with my money...just as I am doing again this year...AT DISNEYLAND...where they're still trying to excite me.

This is the point I was trying to make a couple of days ago but I got shot down and told I purposely look for threads where people moan and groan about the state of WDW. This is the difference between WDW fans and Disneyland fans. I think we're more nitpicky and want things to be nearly perfect. I was working Peter Pan at Disneyland one day and a woman kindly tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to fix the time on the standby sign. The time read thirty minutes but apparently the woman had been waiting in line for at least forty minutes. I guess you, myself, and others will continue to enjoy our time at Disneyland, although it's not completely perfect over here either.

Speaking of trying to excite you, I can't wait to try out those new bobsleds at Matterhorn!

 

[Mike K]

Without having been officially to Disneyland yet, I am already prepared to know that I will visit it again. The two parks, especially with the new expansions, look marvelous and I hope to frequent it at least every other year, if not, every year if finances can support it. That said, I still plan on visiting Disney World every year as well because I simply can't stay away. I treasure Walt Disney World but at the same time I can be objective enough to realize that it needs work. In addition, I'm not blind to ignore the walls at Fantasyland and realize that something great is on its way, as well as the upcoming Avatarland. With each passing year and falling more in love with the rich Disney history of the studio and the parks, I find myself booking these vacations for two reasons. One, I simply want to escape into the magic that Disney is known for. Secondly, for as opinionated as we all are here, and for good reason, I like to visit the parks to get a first hand look as how things are developing. While we have a wealth of great people here that post videos and pictures with the latest work or lack thereof being done at the parks, I don't think anything can compare to how all of these things hit you when your right in front of them and get a real sense of the environment. The Disney parks are places we all cherish and hold up to incredibly high standards and we want to see the legacy continue on so being able to witness developments every year is not only exciting but remarkably interesting to me.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I treasure Walt Disney World but at the same time I can be objective enough

This.

I love WDW more than I care to admit to anybody but my closest friends - who still consider me barking mad for it. I love it more than one ought to love a theme park resort. But at the same time I am also bored out of my mind in 'New Future World' and think the cartoonification of the MK a complete travesty.

I like to visit the parks to get a first hand look as how things are developing. While we have a wealth of great people here that post videos and pictures with the latest work or lack thereof being done at the parks, I don't think anything can compare to how all of these things hit you when your right in front of them and get a real sense of the environment.

...tell it to jt04

 

[jt04]

How about a few hundred million dollars worth of E-tix for Disneyland? How would that impact it?
And both with the support of your pal Skipper John....

Oh...and that third gate that is in early development...

Gone, but not forgotten.

I really don't think it matters. A few hundred million is about the equal of 1 M:S. Even a third gate does not equal a DAK.

DCA was profoundly difficult because they had to do a major overhaul of an entire theme park while it remained opened. Likely the logistics of that nightmare have sharpened skills enough that they can do the stuff you mention at the DLR and still have plenty of capacity for tackling the issues at WDW.

PS- I knew you hadn't gotten over the AC. I am not even a fan and wish they would bring it back. Of course I want to see a land designed around it at a certain park.

 

[WDW1974]

Being right makes me right. Group think is for those who don't think. Have fun living there.

So ... can you define group think? I believe you mean anyone who agrees that WDW used to be a whole lot better and isn't being run/managed in a proper fashion for fans, guests, cast and shareholders alike. But I just want to be sure what load it is that you are shoveling today.

 

[WDW1974]

Did you go on Little Mermaid at DCA? (With a 5 to 10 minute wait in the afternoon?)

I worry that Disney will over-hype the Mermaid D Ticket for FLE later this year and people will expect some amazing 12 minute E+ Ticket Potter-swatter and instead they will get a charming 5 minute D Ticket instead. (And with Fastpass, too many folks will wait an hour at MK instead of 5 minutes at DCA to do it.) Mermaid is the big new ride for FLE, but if they hype it too much it's going to deflate the impact of the FLE overall.

TDO has a very, very fine line to walk when it comes to marketing Little Mermaid later this year.

Mermaid is about the only thing they've done out in Anaheim that I am not overly impressed with. I actually prefer the charm of the Fantasyland dark rides across the esplanade. The experience is very plastic-y and looks very cheap in places.

But as you said, it is but a small component of a vastly improved slate of offerings in DCA.

In the Central FLA swamps, make no mistake, the PR (and Social Media) spin will have folks expecting something vastly better than what Disney will be delivering. And with the ridiculous usage of FP, folks will be spending a lot longer waiting for it than in Anaheim too.

 

[WDW1974]

Man, at least a month until new Carsland merch? We don't have CD burners anymore to churn out soundtracks? Nobody in the world can make any of these products in less than a month?

It's amazing that it's taken nearly 57 years for Disney to figure out the people will buy merchandise that supports the experiences they just had. Oh wait... it didn't. It just took them that long to forget and then remember it.

Oh c'mon. People don't want quality, area/land/attraction/park/resort specific merchandise! they want stuff that says Disney Parks on it ... or Grumpy tees and Tink hoodies that you can easily make with WDW on some and DL on others.

I'm sure that's what all the merchandising wizards (yeah, double meaning there) at Maingate say when they further Walmart the product.

 

[WDW1974]

That money was to fix Eisners folly. He was warned.

They ain't done spending on the West coast yet.

Nope.

They aren't.

DL will have something(s) new and shiny to show off long before Avatarland opens (if it ever does).

 

[WDW1974]

Phew... Good job I'm in the UK then.

Even if I still want to emigrate.....

Sadly it seems not much is pending on the east coast. Nothing equal to the competition anyways.

You do realize that reality isn't taken kindly by some ...

 

[jt04]

So ... can you define group think? I believe you mean anyone who agrees that WDW used to be a whole lot better and isn't being run/managed in a proper fashion for fans, guests, cast and shareholders alike. But I just want to be sure what load it is that you are shoveling today.

We have discussed this before. I too remember the early days and would love nothing more than to be able to experience that magic again. It was so much more personal then, it was still new and I was experiencing it through unjaded eyes. If I could jump in a time machine and go back to experience the early days I would.

I am convinced WDW has fallen victim to its own success. It really isn't practical or likely even possible to bring that back. I was at the Poly once when the NFC Championship was on TV in the lobby and people were sprawled all over the floor drinking from their refillables while bored children ran all over the stairs. What a joke! I thought of how you would react and just laughed to myself. It is a shame but there is no going back.

Back to the time machine. It would be even better if it was possible to send someone like Eddie Sotto back to 1975 WDW so he could implement his vision. THEN we might now have the WDW that could have been and now never will be. Nobody regrets that didn't happen as much as me. But I accept the reality of it. And try to make the best of it.

 

[WDW1974]

Hopefully you are wrong as I have staked my WDWMagic reputation on WDW getting major adds. If I am wrong I will become more bitter than WDW74 and Lee combined! LOL

Not possible, Frank.

Lee and I have a corner on the market when it comes to bitter. ... Sorta what happens when reality meets you.. I mean our brains.

But you keep fighting on for the honor of Inoverherheadmeg and the TDO Flying Monkey Briagde.

After all, she does rule DLR and DLP as well, so she must know what she is doing.

 

[WDW1974]

Doubt it. I've read lots of posts here where people have stated they will continue to visit WDW for a very long time. People may get angry but they won't actually do anything about it. Not that they could anyway.

It doesn't matter whether people with issues with WDW management/lack of upkeep and quality and investment (like say ME) continue to visit.

WDW doesn't care about any individual guests. They believe we are all very replaceable, whether you're a whale like me or a minnow that visits once, spends a few grand and decides 'that wasn't worth it'. That's why they don't care if they get many one-and-dones. They believe there's an unending supply of people yearning for Pixie Dust. It is the exact same 'tude that many great names in American commerce have had and they no longer exist or exist in much smaller/less impactful forms.

All those folks who ignorantly trot out the line that ''WDW is a business'' as if the rest of us here need to be told this simple and obvious fact of reality don't necessarily get that point. But like most fanbois ... they'll get the point in the end. Unfortunately, it may be too late for WDW by that time.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It doesn't matter whether people with issues with WDW management/lack of upkeep and quality and investment (like say ME) continue to visit.

WDW doesn't care about any individual guests. They believe we are all very replaceable, whether you're a whale like me or a minnow that visits once, spends a few grand and decides 'that wasn't worth it'. That's why they don't care if they get many one-and-dones. They believe there's an unending supply of people yearning for Pixie Dust. It is the exact same 'tude that many great names in American commerce have had and they no longer exist or exist in much smaller/less impactful forms.

All those folks who ignorantly trot out the line that ''WDW is a business'' as if the rest of us here need to be told this simple and obvious fact of reality don't necessarily get that point. But like most fanbois ... they'll get the point in the end. Unfortunately, it may be too late for WDW by that time.

I figured that. I didn't want to say WDW doesn't care about its guests because it sounds bad, but it's the truth. Whether you say it or I say it.

 

[WDW1974]

I am convinced WDW has fallen victim to its own success. It really isn't practical or likely even possible to bring that back. I was at the Poly once when the NFC Championship was on TV in the lobby and people were sprawled all over the floor drinking from their refillables while bored children ran all over the stairs. What a joke! I thought of how you would react and just laughed to myself. It is a shame but there is no going back.

I just don't agree. I see what they've done in Anaheim. I see what they've done at their international resorts ... and with the cruise line.

I am not saying they could make the whole resort ever feel like it did in the mid-70s. But that laser-like focus on quality and exceeding guests expectations was in full force well into the 90s.

Only after they brought in the outside MBAs and consultants to essentially break the product (since Burbank and Eisner couldn't keep delivering the absurd 20% annual returns) did things change. Worst thing is that it didn't have to. The Disney P&R was a finely tuned printer of money (sure, some years were leaner when there was war or recession) and who knows what the unit would have achieved if they didn't start outsourcing and cutting 'the fat'.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Mermaid is about the only thing they've done out in Anaheim that I am not overly impressed with. I actually prefer the charm of the Fantasyland dark rides across the esplanade. The experience is very plastic-y and looks very cheap in places.

It's not the first time I've heard that. Is there a reason that Disney seems to be out of the charming, small Fantasyland dark ride business? There's a couple things that have been bugging me lately:

1. I don't mind losing SWSA, because I view it as being replaced by the mine train instead of the meet 'n' greet. What bugs me is that you have a ride system and a building that can very obviously hold a ride... if you put a Tangled ride that was anything better than cardboard cutouts, it would have the longest lines in Fantasyland. Just make something simple with clever technology and people would love it. I know it's not the most popular ride, but look at Monsters at DCA(I know the history of it). It's really just a simple ride with nice technology inserted: smellitzer, living character, projection mapping, etc. I feel like this would've been the response from management back in the "good ol' days". Heck, there were developing Black Cauldron attractions, weren't they? Now we have a new princess who is hugely popular and seems to have staying power and... nothing.

2. Instead of building one $100M Mansion-wannabe-omnimover Mermaid ride, you could probably build three simple classic style dark rides. Get more franchises represented. Move more merch. You'd probably end up with the same capacity overall.

It may be the quintessential Disney attraction type, but I doubt we'll ever see a new one other than a resort opening. It seems like we either get a ride that costs $100M+ or something that is straight off the shelf. No room in the middle?

 

[yeti]

I think the breaking point passed when fans started wetting themselves over new bathrooms (oooh a Dyson airblade blowdryer! *snap pic*).

On that topic, maybe it was when something like a playground or a "toddler fun water play zone" started to becoming deserving of the "attraction" label, let alone warrant press attention.

Until people stop liking or "liking" the Parks Blog; falling for the pleas for Facebook comments (Art of Animation is a load of crap in my eyes); and most importantly, stop covering (and praising) each single brushstroke of paint applied anywhere on WDW property, I predict that we'll be stuck where we are for a while.

There is a reason I have not been in several years.

Well well well....straight from the horse's mouth, eh?

 

[spacemt354]

WDW doesn't care about any individual guests. They believe we are all very replaceable, whether you're a whale like me or a minnow that visits once, spends a few grand and decides 'that wasn't worth it'. That's why they don't care if they get many one-and-dones. They believe there's an unending supply of people yearning for Pixie Dust. It is the exact same 'tude that many great names in American commerce have had and they no longer exist or exist in much smaller/less impactful forms.

All those folks who ignorantly trot out the line that ''WDW is a business'' as if the rest of us here need to be told this simple and obvious fact of reality don't necessarily get that point. But like most fanbois ... they'll get the point in the end. Unfortunately, it may be too late for WDW by that time.

The bolded is where I have a problem. It's fine that people have different opinions on things. We all have had different experiences in the world and view its progression through different windows. But to make a hyperbolically opinionated statement like that and try to pass it off as the truth isn't reasonable. Maybe you have felt wdw hasn't given you the guest services you have come to expect. But to use your own experiences as universal proof that wdw doesn't care about any individual guest is just simply not true.

 

[Lee]

The bolded is where I have a problem. It's fine that people have different opinions on things. We all have had different experiences in the world and view its progression through different windows. But to make a hyperbolically opinionated statement like that and try to pass it off as the truth isn't reasonable. Maybe you have felt wdw hasn't given you the guest services you have come to expect. But to use your own experiences as universal proof that wdw doesn't care about any individual guest is just simply not true.

But how about when people that actually work for the company tell you that they don't really care about the individual guest?
That isn't opinion or personal experience, it's a business model.

Like it or not, to Disney we are all just $ with Mickey ears.

 

[Californian Elitist]

But how about when people that actually work for the company tell you that they don't really care about the individual guest?
That isn't opinion or personal experience, it's a business model.

Like it or not, to Disney we are all just $ with Mickey ears.

Wow, that's really awful. Can the same be said about Disneyland? I really hope not. They seem to care out here.

 

[Lee]

Wow, that's really awful. Can the same be said about Disneyland? I really hope not. They seem to care out here.

No, it's pretty much the same out there.
The difference is that WDW is becoming more a hotel and real estate interest. The parks are transitioning from being the focal point, to being the bait that entices more timeshare sales. Thus management's reluctance to invest any more than what is necessary to just maintain the status quo.

Disneyland is still all about the parks.
Same focus on getting your money, but two different ways of going about it.